Scotland

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Reiver, Nov 9, 2012.

?

Independence for Scotchland

  1. Yah

    64.9%
  2. Nah

    35.1%
  1. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    Considering your taxes are funding the Scots' generous welfare state I don't see what there is to be ashamed of in being English.
     
  2. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    Salmond was trounced by Darling last night in the TV debate. He was left blabbering on about alien invasions and pandas. In a snap poll after the debate 56% of viewers thought Darling had won and just 44% thought Salmond had won. Salmond was booed, jeered and heckled throughout by the audience.

    The independence campaign has come off the rails.
     
  3. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    Another huge blow for the Scottish nationalists as it is revealed that support in Scotland to preserve the Union has risen to an ALL-TIME high after Salmond's crushing defeat by Better Together leader Alistair Darling.

    With Salmond having just 39 days of campaigning to revive his lifeless bid to break-up Britain before the historic referendum on September 18, a shock new poll by Survation has shown that opposition to Scottish separation from the UK has risen to 50%, with just 37% of Scots intending to vote for independence.

    That is a remarkable four point increase in the space of a single week for the No camp, with the Yes camp DOWN three points.

    When undecided voters are excluded, the No camp is on 57 per cent – a massive 14-point lead over Yes, compared to just a six-point lead last Sunday.

    More than two-thirds of the 1,010 Scots polled by Survation said the First Minister should produce a 'plan B' to his unrealistic bid to keep the pound before voters cast their ballots.

    Asked to pick adjectives to describe the SNP leader's performance in the pivotal STV debate last Tuesday – which was watched by 1.7million people – the most popular choices were 'weak', 'uninformed' and 'dishonest'.

    His opponent, former Chancellor Mr Darling who is spearheading the Better Together campaign, was described as 'knowledgeable' and 'strong'

    Mr Salmond's leadership is now under unprecedented scrutiny, with senior SNP figures privately briefing against him throughout the week and some suggesting his deputy Nicola Sturgeon should replace him for a crunch TV debate on the BBC later this month.

    [​IMG]

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    Mr Darling hammered his rival over his plans for a currency if Scots back independence in the referendum. Mr Salmond could not properly explain how an independent Scotland would be able to pay its own way in the world


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...V-flop-Major-blow-SNP-wake-debate-defeat.html
     
  4. walkingcontradiction

    walkingcontradiction New Member

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    So true. Without Salmond they'd probably get a lot more Yes votes! Untrustworthy!
     
  5. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Typical desperate to stay calm article cherishing big time on any petty 'victory' it can. This newspaper reflects the great fear of its readers in regards to the incoming referendum. The Scots believe in Salmond. Dancing around his possible misread of a paper will do far from shifting public opinion in Scotland. It only angers Scottish readers and makes them want independence even more.

    The Scots believe in Salmond and have proven in the past on several occasions that they are capable of a YES vote. They already voted for all the things they have: an assembly, then a parliament, devolution and when their voice was not heard or ignored, they almost started a civil war: the Poll Tax issue showed the Scots have personality.
     
  6. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    All the Oil Scotland has gets divided by 63 million people. Once Scotland becomes independent, it will all be divided by 5 million. I don't see how Scotland could have hurt itself by becoming independent at any moment in time since the 1970s.
     
  7. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    It's not Scotland's oil. It's Britain's oil.

    In the extremely unlikely event of the Scots voting for independence - the nationalists are still losing badly in the polls just three weeks away from the referendum, so they need a miracle - Scotland will only get the oil that is in its waters.

    And when the SNP tell you that "90% of North Sea oil belongs to Scotland" then don't believe a word they say, because when they say that they actually include North Sea gas in their figures, and the vast majority of North Sea gas fields are in English waters.

    Also, oil prices are extremely volatile, so the Jocks will be playing a dangerous game if they think they can live off subsidies from dwindling oil supplies.
     
  8. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    Yes and no. The Scottish EEZ will not be definite in the event of independence as the continental shelf convention of 1958 means that any nations overlapping EEZ will have to be negotiated between the respective parties.
    This means that the Scottish EEZ could be smaller than expected.
    I'm sorry but Salmond is a liar and deliberately trying to take the Scots for a ride.
    The fact is that the proposed sovereign wealth fund is impossible as 30 years is the most liberal estimate of oil reserves in the North Sea and even oil and gas companies will reach the point of profitability long before that which means a decline in tax revenues.
    And of course the "white paper" is just an absolute mess.
    It's a mad idea.
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not so

    We only need a 3.1% swing which is easy

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/29/scottish-independence-poll-yes-boost_n_5734780.html

    of course it depends on who is doing the polls. Here we are in the lead already

    http://radicalindependence.org/2014/08/19/radical-independence-campaign-18k-canvass-sample-released/

    and here is what we can expect if we are stupid enough to not vote yes

    http://nationalcollective.com/2014/08/27/5-things-that-will-probably-happen-if-scotland-votes-no/
     
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regarding oil. I think it is 91% for Scotland

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics...2/oil-revenues-if-scotland-became-independent

    The revenue from the oil will clearly be better suited being used by the Scottish people than wasted by Westminster. Anyway do not worry, you will not need to pay all your taxes so that we can enjoy free prescriptions and free higher Education. Just think of how rich you are going to be if you can get rid of Scotland. ;)
     
  11. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Isn't Japan the largest national state by GDP?
     
  12. ashdoc

    ashdoc Active Member

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    what is the percentage of pakistanis and bangladeshis in scotland . is it any less than in england ?? it is THEY who are going to take over britain anyway in future . if percentage of THEM is less in scotland than in england , then there is point in separating because scotland will be spared the horror of these savages taking over the land .
     
  13. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For those who do not know Yes has got the lead in a poll for the first time.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-days-to-save-the-union-scottish-independence

    Another poll has No in the lead at 52-48

    but clearly the momentum now is with the Yes Campaign which has got there from being 14% behind a month ago.

    Westminster is terrified. They never believed that Scotland would go for Independence but this has been a very broad campaign with so many different grass root groups describing their interest in Independence. Scotland has woken up Politically.

    So now....Westminster is saying it will offer Devo Max if it gets a No vote - it had refused to allow that as an option before and it was the one that likely would have won had it been offered at the beginning.

    Will it be enough? Not for me. I want us to be in charge of our own Foreign Policy. Anyway a good article in the Guardian about the possibility of a Federal Britain - that certainly is more interesting but I think it may even be too late for that. People have fought long and hard to make up their minds and now we will not know till the results are in who has won but Independence is certainly in with a good chance!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-days-to-save-the-union-scottish-independence
     
  14. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    Care to bet on the outcome? Well that is if you can believe a poll based on just over a thousand people.
    No money of course.
     
  15. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any evidence that Westminster is terrified, Alexa, though I do see evidence that Will Hutton is terrified.
     
  16. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When you learn to debate rather than snap meaningless words there might be some thing to debate with you.
     
  17. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would I care to bet with you? I am not a betting person. The situation is basically 50-50 and has been in the last three polls. The momentum however is with the Yes vote. The situation is also that Scotland will be better off whether she goes for Independence or not but yes would be best. Had Britain gone for a Federal system which was the intention of John Smith before his untimely death it probably would have been better for the whole of the UK. Anyway Westminster I suspect has left it too late...we still need to wait and see but I have been watching no's turn to yes. ;)
     
  18. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    Because if I lose I'll close my account and write a concession to your favour.
    I'd expect something similar from you if your side loses.
    And it will only show just how au fait you actually are with this issue.
    Of course that's if you decide to take the bet.

    Also
    A federal system! which would do what exactly?
     
  19. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Nothing meaningless there. I was referring to the author of that article.
     
  20. DennyO

    DennyO New Member

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    I just hope the referendum reflects the will of the people and the results are accepted and implemented peacefully.

    Having visited Scotland a few months back, the thing that caught my attention was a feeling expressed by many that since the union of 1707 took place, England took advantage of their plurality to their own benefit. Also, the Scots seem to find the English personality to be aggressive and selfish. Perhaps a bit of counselling could help, if the English were willing to reform their ways to be more sharing.

    Just my two cents, or pence.
     
  21. mairead

    mairead New Member

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    Latest poll for today, 10th September, shows 53% for Yes and 47% for no.
    Yes has increased since the three stooges,Cameron, Clegg and Milliband came up from Westminster to try to fool the voters up here.
     
  22. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Cameron doesn't realize that by going to Scotland, a place where people hate the Tories, he only increases suspicion of the NO campaign.
     
  23. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind betting that after Scotland has voted no, Salmond pretends that devo max was what he really wanted all along.
     
  24. munter

    munter New Member

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    NO - it is not up to the Scots - it's up to the people of the UK
     
  25. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He always wanted it to be an option on the ballot paper for the referendum - it was the UK government who refused to allow that.
     

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