How would Scotland leaving NATO and the UK effect their military capabilities? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fXpq9V41Iw"]Defence fears over independent Scotland 11.01.12 - YouTube[/ame]
Don't worry about it. Scotland has always had a strong military and has fought all over the world in all kinds of places you wouldn't expect for many centuries. I'm sure we'll manage. Being part of the UK union has caused decimation of the armed forces anyway in recent years, historic centuries old proud Scottish battalions have been eradicated in the name of joint defence. It's not been great for our military to be part of UK in that respect. As far as I can see, SNP is anti nuclear regarding both weapons and energy. They don't want the nuclear deterrent here, but are not stupid enough to throw away shipping jobs by refusing to service high tech military equipment and the subs have been maintained here for a long time. The number of people working at Faslane is much lower than it used to be though. I hope they also get rid of the nuclear waste disposal plants from Scotland but these things will be phased, Scotland is pressing ahead with renewables with the aim of producing enough renewable energy to provide electricity to an area as large as all of Europe. It looks like there is potential for jobs, just of a different and less dangerous type: http://www.talentscotland.com/Workers/Industries/Energy/Employers/Employer-spotlights/Display-Spotlight.aspx?guid={B4698597-9AF1-46E6-BD4B-ABF6AB456A9A} Ming (the man in your video) wants things thought through and he's right to table the argument, but again there is all kinds of potential for job creation in a non-UK Scotland as we would then be looking at restructuring the military and might require to build ships of our own, thereby retaining the shipyards. There is no reason not to build ships for the remaining UK forces, although no doubt they could find them cheaper there are bound to still be economic links between the countries and it might be possible. It is convenient to have the service centre so close to UK. But I don't think SNP has any military aspirations. They didn't agree with going into Iraq, in fact a lot of people voted them into power to tell Labour that few Scots agree with being dragged into such wars. We're a different temperament from England. They still see themselves as a big important world power. It's a fear that if Scotland leaves the union it will diminish their importance and military leverage and I'm sure it might be true. But we don't have any such aspirations or delusions of grandeur. I think it will be minimum spend and sensible activity on the military. The forces will remain and Scotland has a very long military history which is part of the culture, but it will be interesting to see how the SNP play it regarding NATO. The bottom line is, there are many issues to work through but Scotland being independent is no different or more difficult or less achievable than any other small country in the world. Switzerland, for example, manages everything that anyone else manages and often much better, but you don't see them sabre rattling....
So are you saying Scotland would be like Ireland in military terms? Or Denmark? And Scotlands army has a proud history. And you fought all over the world as Britain, when you tryed it yourselves it didn't work. If you think military spending is low now, wait until the SNP cuts it even more. The English aren't stupid and if they are as you say, they will no let a foreign nation meddle with their state of the art navy. And would just move the nuclear base down the west coast to Barrow, or some where like that. And Barrow could use those job, as much a Glasgow. And now doubt the nuclear waste will have much to do with the EU, so Scotland couldn't just get rid of them, more would need to be built in England. England his as much renewable power as Scotland, and it going to renewable in a big way to. How many ships? And how many jobs? Are we talking 100 million a year, more than that? Scotland would no doubt want some type 23's and a large percentage of the patrol boats the UK has. And as I would be an English man if Scotland got independence I wouldn't want my money going to Scottish jobs, that just like foreign aid, pointless and a wasted of money. So you didn't see the 1 million people in London protesting the Iraq war then? And no doubt they didn't want to see the UK in these pointless American war in parts of the world the UK had been for 20-30 years befor hand. And no I don't see a England as a important world power, England is a little more powerful than Spain, I see the UK as a world power, because it is. Scotland would lose more importance than England, Scotland would be like Ireland, having a weak military, England would be like Spain, rather than the UK being like France. I military terms England would be the same as the UK now, but it would have to cut spending in other places. And Scotland has delusions of grandeur, like the way you go on about the Enlightenment having nothing to do with money from England and empire. The SNP want to leave NATO, are you going to have a referendum on that, and the EU aswell, if you win a independence vote, that desides which future state I am apart of, with me having no say in it. Why can't the whole UK vote, on the UK. Scotland would be like Ireland, when it got independence, just a bit bigger.
You're no history student apparently. One of the main reasons England entered UK was to acquire Scotland's military. If you're in any doubt about Scottish military ability, have look into the origins of the SAS. I have already given views on what may develop, but the bottom line is I don't foresee Scotland being interested in the aggressive political crap the UK drags us into. I imagine it will be a defence force. Possibly involved in peacekeeping, but genuine peacekeeping. Not invading for oil under the guise of improving the world. Not manipulating and interfering with the government of other countries. Sneakiness and deviousness are not really our thing. Good. Unless someone invades Scotland, why would we be killing anyone? And why would a government be wasting my money and my peoples lives on political warfare? It's not their Navy, bright spark. It's the UK Navy. (are you UK at all?) Good. I won't have to look at Faslane all day. So what? We will have our own equipment and restructuring to concern us. It will be a busy time. EU. Scotland is not a member of the EU. Why would the EU be dictating that any country must retain nuclear waste? Scotland is at the cutting edge of renewables industry. Which you would know, if you read the link in my last post. The person who was pushing renewable energy in UK was the last Prime Minister, a Scot. The current government has been cutting grants and incentives and renewables companies are squealing quite loudly about the adverse effects on their business. If Scotland separates from UK union, you can stick your money... peace from England will be payment enough (is it likely...no). However, I am sure there will be continued economic links for many years to come, despite personal pettiness. If it is beneficial to the English to have ships built and maintained here, they will be here. My personal pettiness is that I'd rather see the nuclear south of the border, with all the risks and radiation they entail. By all means keep that to yourself. I don't foresee a huge Navy. Why would we need one? But UK government is intent on sharing the military capacity and even the aircraft carriers being compatible with use by aircraft from foreign forces. Scotland would be a foreign force. RAF Leuchars and Lossiemouth are both here, although Westminster is intent on destroying that. Why would Scottish forces be excluded from use of aircraft carriers when France is to use them? However, I'd rather all links be severed with that culture. Yes, I saw that. And subsequently saw the English vote in a Party which is even more likely to take UK into war and has in fact done so already. UK government ignores the will of the people. Scotland had the courage of its conviction and voted for the Party least likely to do that. But people south of the border are often all about money, not the common good. That doesn't make any sense, it's unintelligible. Same with that. However, a small country with a military appropriate to a small country sounds about right. England can carry on braying like a donkey and warring like Attila the Hun. Sooner or later, the rest of the world is going to get England's ticket, just as we have. The veneer of civilised behaviour can't fool the yanks forever. No it doesn't. We have no delusions whatsoever, despite having carried England for all these years. England runs at the front shouting about how great it is and trying to be the boss of everything, bragging in a way which hideously embarrasses, but we all know where the brains of the outfit are. Scotland was in financial difficulty and couldn't afford continuation of stupid wars to keep England out and so it outwitted England by joining a union. We are prepared for the evil manipulation we will see from England. They are already saying they may try to block Scotland from joining the Euro. England can't be bad enough and makes a better friend than enemy, that being why we threw in with England in the first place. It may well be over optimistic to hope that after all this time and with the EU in place, England may leave Scotland alone and actually behave honourably...in the way England portrays itself and would like the world to believe England is. But in Scotland, we know the truth about England the ruthless and how when crossed, England simply goes about orchestrating the downfall of the perceived enemy. So it will be a risk to leave the union. Ask Gadaffi what happens to people who publicly cross England...oh wait you can't. He is no longer with us. The Scottish Enlightenment sprung from relief at getting rid of the threat of war with pain in the arse England. Scotland outwitted England by joining the union. It's may outwit England again by leaving when times have changed, but this is fraught with danger due to the English propensity for dishonourable behaviour. However, it may not be as easy to attack Scotland now as it was pre-UK days. SNP has the mandate of the Scottish people. If they take us out of NATO, fine by me. It's never fulfilled its purpose. I don't think England is leaving the UK, so why would England vote on what Scotland does? It's none of your business. So what?
