I say "Jew magic" can work with anyone who understand the concepts of money. Of late, "jew magic" is even beginning to work on the Sauds, as you surely know. You are advancing towards Eretz Yisrael one hilltop at a time, as we are discussing. Pretty hard to deny any territorial envy with such a revolting turn of events, don't you think? How does one eats a whole elephant? One chomp at a time.
One of the reasons people wait a while before answering a post is so that they can misrepresent it. Provide quote and link for when I said this. I have no knowledge of ever saying it. No idea what your ego is assuming you have a right to do here. Again provide quote and link as I have no knowledge of having said this. Yes This is illogical. Each country should have be Number one over its own territory. Israel demanding to be No 1 over other territories is the ego. Israel has a choice. It can either learn to make compromises as every other country in the world has to do or it can try and get the US to take the world to WW3. Your projection of your hatred towards me is noted and it is not the first time you have done this. However your post is made up rather than what you say. Do I support what you and your extreme right government do, no. However do not take it upon yourself to believe that that means I hate all Israelis. For a start unlike yourself I do not waste my emotional well being by hating people. I strongly oppose what you and your Government and a lot of Israelis believe in and would do everything I could to stop that. A country that cannot talk, that cannot make compromises, that believes it has a right to demand that other people in their own countries do what it likes or it will destroy them, a country that would take this world to WW3 due to its Colonialism and ethnic hatred I would do everything I could to oppose. However I happen to be aware that not everyone in Israel is like you. For example 25.9% of 18-34's Israeli Jews agree with allowing Palestinian Refugees to return to Israel knowing that that could be as many as 7,000,000. https://972mag.com/are-israeli-jews-beginning-to-accept-the-right-of-return/134788/ Do not be so absurd as to stigmatise all Israelis with your and your Government's desires.
I think its much more logical that the Sauds are becoming more reasonable than some Jew bribed them for some level of support on Israel, we have a common enemy. I don't think Israel would have ever returned Sinai, evacuate s. Lebanon or Gaza if taking the whole of the ME was part of our plan, I think attacking Egypt, Lebanon or Syria while they were fighting a civil war would have been much easier than planning the fall of Europe and then fight those countries - see the issue is trade not how many troops Europe would send to fight Israel, so if Europe sanction Israel of all trade OR if Israel destroys Europe - the result would be the same, unless you have some more educated intel on that ?
"So if I have got this right the issue is not that Israel was genuinely in any danger" Its in the post I replied to, I read it as if you think Israel is not genuinely in any danger. Its not my Ego...its common sense not to allow an enemy proceed with his plans against you, your qoute: " no longer the sole or main power in the middle east. Israel has always managed to control every situation with force and this frankly might be something that might actually get Israel to think of talking, of making concessions" By that you mean Iran will be stronger and Israel will not be able to act should it need to, not be able to act is more important than "stronger". I would too if I knew Iran poses no threat to us, but either of us know for fact so here we stand. By all means, disband all the ME proxies and terror groups, make each country responsible for its actions and we can make progress toward a more equal ME, but don't talk to me on fair power when there are unofficial Jihadists peeking behind your back. I reject your version of "compromise" but willing to negotiate on a more fair one, meanwhile we fight. I hate no one, not even the forum Nazis disguising as Palestinian supporters, hate is stupid and a waste of energy, it is not stupid to recognize ppl that does hate to save your own energy. You prefer I would be a racist, an ethnic cleanser, a murderer etc' to make your speeches more loud but I am not, I would love to see Gaza a successful beach resort but I'm not blind, I know that giving in to all Hamas or even the PLO demands means doom to us, I believe in time there will be more options.
Your answer shows that you seem to have no idea of the realities! #1 Yes, the Shiite Hezbollah was and is supported by Iran, but it is not an Iranian organization and certainly not created in Iran! But of course Hezbollah is in very close relation with Iran and depends on the support of Iran too! #2 In fact, Hezbollah is in Lebanon and is a Lebanese organization, militia and political party! And we all know that Lebanon has long been a battlefield with representatives of Syria and Israel, or third parties such as the PLO and Christian militias ... and long enough Lebanon sank into a bloody civil war thanks to Israel and Syria! #3 I do not want to deny that Hezbollah committed things commonly referred to as terrorist acts and attacks. However, thanks to the war in Syria, we have now learned that the name and rating of someone as a terrorist is simply ridiculous and insignificant! Thanks to Assad, Russia, the USA, Turkey and Israel for raping the term so forcefully that it is unimportant and meaningless!
Lol ... you can't be serious by blaming here Iran and Hezbollah for! You are backing every a**hole of dictator if claiming to be your friend and doing what you want and closing all eyes about if they do evil ... but Iran is alsways guilty! Yemen is seen by the Royal Bastards in Riad as a colony and it has no rights and this since 100 years! The dividing of the past was right the result of impudent Saudi behavior! And when now depressed minorities who are handled by the Saudi backed governemnt like sh** and sub humans raise up and fight for their rights ... they are the evil one! So what? Only a shrug worth, because we Germans are allowed to do what all others do too ... and only because the current idiot in White House is hating Iran as does Israel, is no reason to make no business with them ... business you do all the time with worst bloody dictators.... like Royal Family in Saudi Arabia who uese again wich US weapons all to slaughter civilians in Yemen, eh?
Ehm ... what do you mean with base in Saudi Arabia? A military base? If yes, be informed that you have not, but in other Gulf states (Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, United Arab Emirates). Of course we live in no perfect world ... but becuase we do not, sorry to say: If non US friends take and claim to have the same rights to do things as the USA or their friends ... they have the right to do so! And who then blames them for it, has not heared the bang in the own head!
Doesn't look too "reasonable" to me... more like "opportunistic" as it gives in into creating chaos in the ME. Common enemies makes for strange bedfellows... Are the Islamist groups that Israel supported in Syria were likewise "reasonable", too? Testing and pushing the line - that's what Israel does, always acting to test the limits fixed at any time by the occident, but only delaying their longer-termed objective towards greater Israel. You couldn't hold the Sinai for long if you ever kept it, and anyway leaving it costs the US - not Israel, as the US now also have to bribe Egypt for Israel. You are still holding land that is legitimately Lebanese or Syrian, and have no visible intentions to return it. As for Gaza, you never left it - it is still under remote occupation and blockade. I don't see what Europe has to do with it as of yet. Israel is a cancer in the ME, slowly perverting more neighboring cells and never getting along with its environment. It is an aggressive, scheming, militaristic, apartheid nation that claims eternal victimhood as a reason for all the sht it creates. Until Israel stays that way, it will never know peace.
If Russian "help" thinks like Yankee "help", they're there for a good while. About time, too. Maybe Russia doesn't like the idea of having Islamist neighbours. The USA, Israel and Saud entities are doing quite an execrable job as peacekeepers, achieving the total reverse of what they intended. Unless what they intended is the chaos we have, of course. Then it would be a complete success, this mess.
For some reason you seem to think I care if you support me on "my" enemies, as if you term them an enemy helps me in some way, it doesn't, now I appreciate your concern for a more peaceful ME, specifically Syria and Lebanon, however those countries have a very ill tempered militia/terror/commando groups or whatever you wish to call them- set to attack and harass good ppl like me, not you - just me and a few others in Israel, If we had to depend on EU for protection than I guess I would be like all those Russian trolls (that relay on your trade) out here but we don't, so out of courtesy of my heart I'm here to explain (not raise support) why we would continue to attack such bases and weapons making their way to Lebanon's Freedom fighters (better?), it's not because we want to conquer the world as some suggested, its because there is a real uncompromising movement crossing countries that's set to destroy my country and sugar coating it wont help.
That's how the world works, with interests, being the ME most religious and barbaric country can only go so far so the crown prince is making some changes and one of them is looking at Israel differently, they didn't abandon the Palestinian state idea. Israel didn't support any Islamist group, it did support resistance groups who later swore to ISIS since the West abandoned them to Assad, Russia, Lebanon and Iran. but that's a thing for history to judge. What bribery to Egypt are you talking about ? Gaza today has all the land it would ever get from Israel, they might get some from Egypt - Egyptian Raffiah, but other than that, its all they have, blockading them is in direct to Hamas control over Gaza, blockade is not occupation, they were occupied by Israel once, a.k.a Gaza "Golden years". You said Israel couldn't hold Sinai for long, and you suggest we aim to hold : Lebanon, Syria, Saudia, Egypt, Iraq!! and some more I don't remember. I agree, never make peace with ppl that think like you, that's however not evidence that Israel plans to conquer the ME, the idea is absurd and completely fictional, not even Russia and/or the USA can conquer the ME.
Personally I bless for their presence, I think my Gov as well, Russia understands the statuesque that preceded the Syrian civil war is better than a new reality of constant fighting between Iran and Israel on Syrian land.
and yes that is correct when taken in context http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/someone-quietly-bombs-syria-now.530756/page-5 The argument is that what you are losing is simply your ability to go without permission over your neighbours air space whenever you want and bomb them whenever you like. This is not a danger to Israel's existence. What it is is a danger to Israel being able to be God in the area - to do whatever she wants and to destroy any who do not agree with her. That is the position Israel has had for some time and along with that goes her belief that she can do whatever she wants, that she has no need to get involved in negotiations with other countries and make the needed concessions for peace. Israel always opts for force. That plus the US support of anything she does has resulted in Israel having none of the limitations that normally facilitate a country acting neighbourly to its neighbours. It has allowed Israel to play God with their lives. This stops Israel being able to do that. You can argue against that if you want but just to say it is not so is no argument. No that is how you are reading it. How I see it is that while Russia is protecting Syria, you cannot just go in and attack at will. Israel cannot just fly the skies and drop bombs where ever she likes with impunity which is what you have been doing even when while Russia has been there until you took to attacking a new air defence system which was being put in to protect the people on the ground who Israel likes to attack. Russia did apparently say it would keep out of any war between Israel and Iran but no more in Syria as an attack there threatened Russia's security. It is wrong for one country to be able to force all other countries to do what she wants or she will bomb them back to the stone age. That is the change I would think a sensible Israel would make -understand it's time as God is over and be prepared to start taking and making necessary concessions so that war with her neighbours is not an on going thing - with Israel being the one in charge. This is what I see as ego. Up till now Israel is under no threat. Anything she does not like, she claims is a threat and destroys and there is nothing the people in the area can do to stop her. Even Russia has allowed Israel to bomb at will. Israel has had no need to ever give a thing and this is as pertinent in Israel's relationship with Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. Till now it was up to Israel to decide if she found something acceptable and if not just to bomb and/or refuse deal and build more settlements on the Palestinian State. This is not how countries act Gilos. All countries even Superpowers have to make compromises. That is what I see this demands Israel does. That instead of war, war, war she try jaw, jaw and jaw and the inability of Israel to be able to have the humility to do that is what I am calling ego. There is not one acting and the other doing nothing. You are in relationship. You clearly fear Iran's strength. I can see that this requires a change in thinking. A change in thinking that moves from war, war, war which seems to be the only thinking Israel knows and I do not believe that has been good for her or the region. If you are believing that Iran wants to destroy Israel because of what Ahmadinejad is wrongly reported as saying then you are listening to propaganda. Ahmadinejad in any case I was reading recently is considered by the Iranians to be their Trump (big mouth I think). What Iran will demand is that you start talking and making changes. You may have read the paper which suggested had a major attack happened on Syria, Israel would have felt consequences. https://ejmagnier.com/2018/04/17/th...orld-disaster-only-missed-at-the-last-minute/ Now this is what you fear but what we saw was, that when the US discovered that the kind of attack they were planning could have led to war spreading, they curtailed it to a symbolic act. That is what happens when you are not all powerful, when you like everyone else may face consequences for your actions. Clearly when this is the situation, Israel can no longer do whatever she wants. Israel has to consider other people. No one is going to destroy Israel less we get into WW3. (and I would watch out for the Christian Zionists on that). What Israel needs to be able to do now is to accept the situation and re-access her position. What would make the most sense was that she started trying to come to neighbourly terms with her neighbours. I was reading recently though I do not know when it was written that the elite in Israel had said they did not want to be thought of as part of the Mid East but as part of the West. You will remember also that Martin Buber believed that Israel should come to terms with the Arab population of Palestine to create a state together and built itself up as part of the Middle East - whereas the elite then also wanted to be part of the West - and without the Arabs. If Israel is going to have any long term stay in the Middle East I would suggest she is going to have to become part of that and that requires becoming neighbourly to them and sorting out disputes rather than attacking at will. While it certainly does make it more difficult for Israel to get what she wants simply by force, I see a positive side to this in that it has the potential for Israel to reassess herself and become part of the region. That however I think will be extremely hard for Israel and particularly for the extreme right Israel you have now and Crooke also questioned whether Israel could do this. http://21stcenturywire.com/2018/02/18/syria-putin-makes-offer-israel-will-israel-refuse/ (I think we can assume that the 'war of choice' he is speaking of was rather a 'run to Washington' and the convenient finding of a chemical weapon attack. As I mentioned earlier because it was realised this would likely lead to the war spreading this was reduced to a symbolic attack for now.) It depends on whether Israel can have the humility to make the changes and concessions necessary. The plus would be that she then would have a secure place in the Middle East. The minus that she would need to make big concessions/compromises. The alternative possible WW3 or a stand off/very cold war. Without the support of the US Israel as she is would not exist. I now believe that what the US has been up to in the ME was as in 'clean break'. Hence the destruction of ME States which has given rise to all the terrorism was done for Israel. It may not have been the result Israel wanted but it seems it was done in the belief it would offer Israel better security. and yet Israel has been supporting the worst of these. I would not want them at my back either and Israel can be grateful that Hamas has kept them at bay in Gaza. Have I given my version? No I don't think so and the whole thing about what that version was would need to be one that was acceptable to all the actors involved. The plus of that being that it would be likely to end up in genuine peace and stability with Israel having a place in the ME. I will say also Gilos that I have been reading that at least part of Israel's continued aggression towards her neighbours may be for fear of internal problems among the Jews of Israel when there is no outside enemy. These are issues which would also need to be addressed. No, I was suggesting your loud claim of my hate was a projection. I believe it is simply another way of avoiding dealing with the issues. In that it can be helpful as it is a bait which stops discussion. If you give such do not be surprised when it is returned.
All I ask is that you understand that there is another side to the story, you dont have to agree to it just know that there is, just like I do when discussing our neighbors. WHY does Israel attack from time to time ? all you say is that Russia will prevent Israel from attacking and all is well but what it really means (to us) is Iran will get to sustain its presence and secure a fast travel to Lebanon' that is the threat to us, not a life or death threat but enough to risk war since war will break once they are ready from their side, as things go, no reason for us to allow that.
I don't think Israel attacks for the fun of it or just to raise chaos, we have real enemies there and fighting them is necessary, from my point of view a Russian "protection" without concern to Israel is a threat, we still may have to swallow this frog if Russia will provide some security concerns to Israel, but we are not there yet.
Israel may have her reasons. I described her actions. The situation remains that all this stops Israel doing is stamping out all opposition before it is strong and I can see that to you that appears as a threat. The way to deal with threats other than war is by talk and compromise as I described above. Resolving threats rather than stamping on them can lead to lasting resolution as the issues are dealt with. It needs a different way of thinking and approaching threats which I admit Israeli Politicians do not have much experience of.
The risk that we are concerned about is not a Nuke flying in our way or Tanks storming the borders, its a constant fire from the North and South that prevents normal living, they can do that with low tech weapons if they get close enough, disturbing normal lives is what "they" (those among the Arabs that really want to destroy us) try to do since 1936, and in my opinion its a good reason enough to cause war. About being part of the ME, you should know that in the ME there are always rivals and enemies, one cannot be an ally to one without being an enemy of another, that being said, the whole Zionist idea was built on serving as another gate between the Arab world and the West, that's what Herzel wrote in his book, a bit patronizing perhaps but he lived in an era....so yes the "being part of" is certainly there, we just have a few trenches to cross first.
Israel's biggest enemy is the megalomania of its right wing leadership. Iran, a Persian/Shia state in a region which is predominately Arab/Sunni isn't a long term threat to Israel. By contrast, the very coalition that the Saudis are trying to put together against Iran with US/Israel cheering and nodding, which would include nuclear armed and very populous but impoverished Pakistan, a country like Egypt which is also largely impoverished but with a large population, and the assortment of mini-sheikdoms awash with petro-dollars and huge military budgets, can easily overtime find Israel a more convenient and obvious target than Iran. Sure, the current leadership of this anti-Iran coalition are basically stooges and puppets and corrupt figures who are all beholden to the US in one way or another. But once this coalition finds its footing, the idea that it can be steered for long to regard Iran as the real menace and target and ignore the obvious target that is Israel seems wishful thinking.
Israel existed before the support came from the US but yes I agree since the support Israel became much more poerful able to carry strikes on other continents, I dont belive those theories of destruction, Capitalism is the engine in the USA and humanity longed learned that happy, educated and rich ppl contribute much more than selling guns to one man so he can kill 20 others, I think the objective always was to cause stabilty, that is US/West kind of stabilty, a quest that does create lots of killings but not for the reasons you mentioned, that is my opinion. I dont think that is true, I would be a happy man if I knew Hamas can be reasoned with and we find a way to live together, please dont mention Crook again, I need to hear it from Hamas. You didnt officialy but I read your posts, my advice is dont negotiate peace with an apartheid colony built by terrorists seeking to take over the world. We both hope for the best lets just stop here
The situation has changed since 36 when the Zionists were helping the British to destroy the Palestinian Arab Revolution. The situation now is not the same. Israel has lost the support of Lebanon Shia and Lebanon Christians due to her own actions. Israel needs to discuss her grievances with the people she is afraid of and come to an acceptable resolution for all. Again we go back to Israel always responding with overwhelming force. It is like the Israeli elite believes that is the only way to resolve situations but it really does not resolve them it just leaves them simmering till next time. Your government even uses this same way of thinking now towards any genuine opposition whether that is in Israel or Jews or others abroad. It cannot hear another voice. Even on this level your elite cannot take opposition. Clearly it is a way of thinking which is almost lost in Israel. Russia is I hear still considering whether she will give Syria the S-300 - note that is a defensive weapon. I believe she should so that they can defend themselves. Israel fears that will allow them to attack her without being sent back to the stone age through disproportionate force and lack of care of civilian lives - which is really how Israel lost the support of the Maronites last time she got up to that. The issue can be resolved but only if Israel is prepared to talk and make the concessions/compromises required. The bottom line I see is that Israel has always responded to difficulties by force. She has been allowed like the spoilt child to do what she wants and now she needs to understand that she needs to start thinking differently. A war that may result in WW3 so that Israel can get what? People do not attack you just for fun either especially now they know how you will respond. They have a reason. That reason is what Israel needs to start addressing. I keep coming back that what is required is a difference in your way of thinking and sadly a way of thinking which at the moment Israel just does not tolerate - and we can give equal blame for that to one particular country which has allowed Israel her own way regardless of the consequences and stability of the region. No doubt this was because what Israel was doing suited her. Again though, I will say it is not all one way. There is something Israel can gain from this. If she manages this change of thinking and starts being able to also see it from the other point of view rather than crying holocaust or antisemitism which is beginning not to work, she can become accepted in the ME and could contribute positively to it - though of course underneath that is the issue that she does have issues at home she will need to deal with when the external enemy Israel has always had is gone. There is lots going on here. I did not say it was easy but it is doable and Israel may find she has no alternative. That is how things are at the moment what with their being a power play between Iran and Saudi Arabia. From what I hear sectarianism in the ME always belongs to power plays. This does not mean that Israel cannot have an important voice in the ME. Indeed you have a few trenches to cross but they can be crossed
