We almost got them in the 50s. We still have the tech, the facilities, the know-how, the money. I say we get nukes. Russia is an unpredictable pest, and we got to have some kind of deterrance against russian stupidity, but joining NATO isn't an option since the yanks have gone crazy. If we get nukes we can ignore the rest of the world, and they will ignore us in return, exactly what we need in these crazy times. Depending on others for security has proven itself to be unrealistic, seeing as the EU and NATO might collapse in the comming years according to my pessimistic projections. We should invite the other nordic countries into an alliance bloc, protected by our nukes, and maybe we'd also jointly fund the nukes.
From North Korea maybe ... or Pakistan, India or China to be lesser worse? Honestly ... there is a fear of countries neighboring Russia and with Donald Trump - depending to his silly election slogans - the USA is out of being any safety further. If the fear against Russia is reasoned or not, can be discussed endless, but it exists and should be taken seriously!
We both know you just pretend putin is a saint, so why bother? We dont have to buy them. I told you, we already have everything we need.
Not really and directly, will cost 1 or 2 years do have them ... out of pure technical point of view.
You have not the complete necessary technical equipment and environment to make out of the nukes you have in Sweden also a nuke bomb and this must be done first which cost time and then ... in 1 or 2 years you are able to build own nuke bombs. OK and no miss-understanding now. For example it will be also hard to get these special centrifuges and vacuum pumps for it then which have to come from other countries who must say OK for this.
We're not some third world country like Iran for christ sake. See that periodic table? Sweden discovered 19 of the elements: we know our physics thank you very much. We don't need help from the outside. If we don't already have the equipment, we have the knowledge to build it. We have our own uranium as well. We don't have to rely on other countries.
Yep ... you are of course not "Unimportistan" and no ... you don't have all necessary things or can build them by your own simply if not able to buy from outside. Think only how long it will take to build the plant for it ... and if you tell now weeks or some month, then any serious further discussion here is superfluous, because you life in "Utopia".
Why are you assuming this would be done in such a short time? I never said that. of course it might take a few years. The point is that we don't really have to depend on any other country to do it. As I've said, we were close to getting nukes in the 50's. Back then, the main constraint was cost, but we're a hundred times richer today so we can easily afford it. and again, we have the resources, we have the technical skills.. we also have a big defense industry to help develop the actual weapons. What exactly is it you think we need from the outside? Why wouldn't we be able to build a plant? We already have 10 reactors right now, and we have built plants required for weapons in the past. What is the problem?
Atlas Copco seriously, Sweden is one of the most high tech countries in the world, with many big international companies. and as I've said, we already built the kind of plant needed back in the 60's, so why couldn't we do it again?
Atlas Copco owns Edwards and since 2 month also Leybold = 2 of the 4 global major players in Vacuum Industries, but there is no plant of both in Sweden and so any pump build by them will fall under the local laws of production and company place of HQ in matter of delivery. And looking closer on it, only the German company Leybold produce the necessary pump systems, but Edwards not. And before you deny this ... I worked at Edwards and I work since longer by Leybold and know the processes of it very well in matter of laws and export control, as well technically aspects of course!
Things change and you know which pump was used there nearly 70 years ago? Also ... maybe a Volvo or Saab of the 60's just work, but a pump?
But i dont understand.. you are speaking of this as if there is only ONE way to make nukes, and that requires this particular german pump. Somehow, i do not believe that is true.
No ... Busch and Pfeiffer as well some smaller one do too, but they are not produced in Sweden and NO... there is not only 1 pump system of course. We are talking about high-tech which needs special specified things to create the result. You can also slam with a hammer a screw into the wall to hold things instead using a nail ... but if it will hold = the result is OK is more as questionable
yes... But Sweden has done this before + Sweden is very high-tech + we have companies that deal in these kinds of things. not vacuum pumps specifically, but close enough. We have the expertise of closely related areas. I mean, are you seriously claiming that Sweden, as a nation, is completely unable to produce the required equipment? I find that a ridiculous claim. Do we have all the equipment ready right now? of course not, we're not planning to build nukes.. But if we wanted, we could. it goes without saying that treaty would have to be scrapped if we were to get nukes. now, that Sweden should get nukes is my personal opinion. The swedish government, nor any of the parties are currently considering getting nukes. However, in the worst case scenario of a trump world, I can see that Sweden might consider getting nukes. Let's look at the reasons why Sweden started its first nuclear programme, and why we ended it. obviously, we wanted to get nukes because we felt threatened by Russia. However, the USA made a deal with us, that we'd stop developing nukes in exchange for being under the america nuclear umbrella. Swedish security is also dependent on NATO and the EU, which ensure stability in our close area. But let's consider the worst case scenario: NATO is dissolved; france and italy leaves the EU, and the EU completely collapses; Trump's america withdraws its protective nuclear umbrella; Russia invades more countries in europe. You must agree, all of those things are possible, and if that happens, Sweden's security environment has reverted back to how it was in the 50's, ie how it was when we first decided to get nukes. If the international order breaks down, Sweden will get nukes. Edit: also, you trust TRUMP with nukes, but not Sweden? puh lease
It wouldn’t be scrapped just because one nation wants nuclear weapons. Either Sweden would seek to seek to withdrawn, which I doubt the other signatories would agree to on the basis you’re proposing and would carry diplomatic consequences either way, or they’d just go ahead and breech it, which would definitely carry diplomatic consequences and almost certainly international law ones too. In the extreme scenario you propose, I’d suggest more countries developing nuclear weapons would actually make things worse rather than better. An aggressive Russia would see a country like Sweden seeking to develop nuclear weapons as a threat and pose a greater threat more. If Russia even came close to threatening any countries outside the traditional Soviet sphere of influence, none of them would be standing alone regardless of international organisations of treaties.
Sweden can unilaterally withdraw from the treaty. It can also hide its activities if that is required. There'd be diplomatic consequences of course, but in the scenario in which we talk about, NATO and the EU would be dissolved, america would be isolationist, and Russia would be agressive. In such a scenario, diplomatic consequences are 1) relatively small, and 2) greatly outweighed by security concerns. And no, in this scenario there would NOT be any international organisations to keep the peace. The scenario, which is scaringly realistic, is that both NATO and the EU dissolved. What else is there? treaties? pff, as if Russia cares about them, and as if Trump's america would bother to police other countries to uphold them. Don't you understand, if the EU and NATO are dissolved, that is literally the end of the current international order? and that is a possibility in the future.
You fear Russia ? That's why you want Nukes ? You should fear Islam Arabs which spread inside Sweden.
