Let me start by saying I have been a Catholic my whole life. I'm not a Church basher nor do I think they are perfect. I wonder how the church gets off, however, in giving sermons going on about the health care mandate being a persecution of their beliefs. First of all, I have never felt persecuted. I know one can say it's subjective, but I have never been stopped from being Catholic, denied anything for it, or told I can't worship as a Catholic. That to me is persecution. The healthcare mandate requiring contraception by all employers is simply a part of the law that was deemed to be in the interest of public health. That, I realize, is a matter of opinion, but my point being I have hard time feeling persecuted. Second, they argue they are consciencous objectors. But they recieve federal tax dollars for their charities. They don't pay taxes on their buildings or income. They are being subsidized in a way most of us aren't. About the only taxes they pay are sales taxes, and I bet depending on who or where they buy from, they can get those waved often times as well. So is it not hypocrisy to say it's against my morals to pay for somoene else's birth control yet accept the tax dollars of Athiest, Jews, Protestants, and others who may morally object to your teachings? And I'm not just picking on the Catholic Church here. I mean I paid for a war I didn't want to, but no one is giving me my contributions back. I'm paying highways and roads I will never drive on or use. I'm paying for subsidies for goods I don't buy or use. I'm paying subsidies for products I wish we didn't use. So why don't I get to object? I'll tell you why, because in a society, in ANY society, no matter whether it's as socialist as it can be or as caplitalistic as it can be, we are here because we can't accomplish the same economic state on our own. And the result is we pay for things we don't like, find gross, amoral, and think are stupid. Not sure why I posted that here, maybe I should've just sent it in a letter to my priest...?
I expect they're opposed to Obama & his legislation anyway, and they just like having the religious card to play.
The Catholic Church doesn't want to pay for something that it considers a mortal sin. That seems to me a reasonable position.
It's an act of aggression by the state against employers that don't want to pay for that stuff. Whether you personally feel persecuted by or not doesn't matter. I don't feel personally persecuted when Obama bombs Pakistani children, but it's still an act of aggression. Then the solution would be to abolish whatever subsidies you think they're getting, not to compound the aggression with more aggression. It is true that the Church hierarchy has always been too ready to flirt with the state. Now it's coming back to bite them because the state was never their friend. But aggression is aggression; two wrongs don't make a right. You should get to object. The wars are evil, as the Church has said. You should oppose your money being stolen from you for unjust wars, just as you should oppose it going to somebody's abortifacients.
It didn't seem to have a problem paying for war, which actually violates their pro-life position, so I don't see it as an issue. And I recongnize they don't WANT to pay for it, but as I said, athiests don't want to pay for Catholic charities, so why should they? We don't have the right to not pay for things we don't want with our tax dollars, that's just an ideal some people seemed to think was possible while at the same time, living in a society. It's not, that's the plain truth. You will always pay for things you detest in a society, no one has ever found a way around it including those of us who live in the US.
Um, it's not quite the same level of aggression as bombing Pakistani children, but I agree. All laws require compliance to be enforced. And so where does it end? Should I oppose paying for the highway you use to get to work because it's amoral for me to pay for something I don't use? If you keep doing this tit for tat, we will all be paying for nothing but ourselves, and at that point, we will not be able to afford all the trappings that make us a super power...it's a downward spiral.
I do not think anyone should have to pay for the legalisation of state murder. If the Christain hosptials, schools, and shelters began to shut their doors and stop providing it's services to the American public. I think America would have greater concerns, therefore when Christianity goes such a long in providing for the welfare of the American people it's opinion on what it believes to be detrimental to the American people should also go a long way.
You don't need the state to use tax money to pay for highways. There are private highways even today.
Yes, I live near one. E470 in Denver is wonderful. No one ever uses it. Do you know why? It doesn't really go anywhere people need to go, but even much more important, it COSTS money. People would rather wait in traffic becuase it's FREE, even though I bet they are spending more money idling their cars. So what does this tell you about private highways? Oh also, E470 is way behind it's profit projections. I don't have a problem with private highways, but the public does. And there is no way you could make enough money at it to justify all the roads we have now. So you would effectively disconnect societies, cities, towns, farmers, and a whole host of Americans from where they live and work. They would wind up in poverty or moving into cities where private highways would be profitable. So essentially, private highways would act like mass transit once did, creating dense population centers and alienating those who live outside of them. If that's the America you want, that's fine with me. The country and farming is over rated. But just realize you would alter America drastically.
Yes, I live near one. E470 in Denver is wonderful. No one ever uses it. Do you know why? It doesn't really go anywhere people need to go, but even much more important, it COSTS money. People would rather wait in traffic becuase it's FREE, even though I bet they are spending more money idling their cars. So what does this tell you about private highways? Oh also, E470 is way behind it's profit projections. I don't have a problem with private highways, but the public does. And there is no way you could make enough money at it to justify all the roads we have now. So you would effectively disconnect societies, cities, towns, farmers, and a whole host of Americans from where they live and work. They would wind up in poverty or moving into cities where private highways would be profitable. So essentially, private highways would act like mass transit once did, creating dense population centers and alienating those who live outside of them. If that's the America you want, that's fine with me. The country and farming is over rated. But just realize you would alter America drastically.
Birth control is not murder. It is not even close. So Christians get to decide health care policy simply because they provide services? I thought we were supposed to help people with no such payback or reward? What political power did Jesus ask for in exchange for his works? None, the answer is none, in fact his own words indicate he did not feel the Roman state or the Jewish state were to owe him a thing and vice versa. You don't get to hold religious gun to the heads of Americans, the first amendment expressly forbids that. If that were to happen, it would create a nation where everyone isn't free to worship as they see fit. Allowing churches to dictate public policy based on their beliefs is not a step towards religious freedom but away from it.
Government roads aren't free. They're paid by taxes. People prefer to use them because if they don't, they have to pay twice: toll for the private road and tax for the government road they don't use. It's similar to how private school parents are forced to pay twice for the school, since they're also paying taxes for the government schools. Thus, the government tilts the playing field. That hardly means it's necessary for roads. If it's not profitable to build a highway in the middle of the boondocks, that means it cost more in resources than the value it's worth to consumers and is a waste. If that causes a pattern of high density cities and low density country, as opposed to large tracts of suburdan sprawl, that's because that pattern is more economical. Probably better for the environment too. Some forms are birth control act as abortifacients, preventing fertilized eggs from implanting. If you agree life starts at conception, that's the taking of a human life. Of course everyone should get to decide the health care "policy" of the health care they pay for. They certainly have more of a right to decide that private policy than the state, which doesn't pay for it. It has nothing to do with a "reward" and it has nothing to do with holding a gun to anyone's head, but with the freedom to make voluntary contracts and provide voluntary services under the terms you choose. The only one holding a gun to anyone's head is the government.
I never said that Christians should get to decide anything. I said our opinion should be held in a regard that is compatiable with what we do. Christians are helping people by sticking to their beliefs, they are trying to form a better society. Christians are not looking for a reward we are looking to be listened to. America has the freedom of religion that no one religion was to be held above others. It is supposed to protect people of faith from being discriminated against, from other religions or from secularists. Now however the secularists are forcing upon others, what they believe to be immoral. Allowing a secular minority dictate policies is what is really happening. A majority of americans still consider themselves Christian, so therefore the Christian opinion should account for more.
