WSDE is just a load of capital letters to me. Are workers co-operatives privately owned? Sure. Unless you live in a republic, everything is privately owned. Personally, it's been a long time since I have worked for a company I didn't part or completely own. So I'm enjoying being an employee again right now. Nice to be getting paid regularly again. Relaxing not to have to worry about money.
If limited to one share each, what would be an incentive to invest more than all the others? If those who began the WSDE put up $10,000 or more each initially would and new employees become needed would each new hire be required to invest an equivalent amount to what the originators put up? This is why I suggested in another thread that you create a thread dedicated to WSDE. It takes other threads, such as this one "The debt is proof of our wealth", far off topic once it is mentioned.
Googling, I've not found any example of a WSDE which would attract my consumption or spending on a good or product based on quality and price. It would appear that they charge more for what they produce and can only be maintained by selling to the wealthier members of the population.
I have, and in another thread I told you what I found which was that the WSDE product was unaffordable. But if they can find enough consumers who are willing and able to buy their product then I have no problem with them remaining in business.
Sometimes they are listed in the phone book. Both are equally important to know and are as meaningful. SOME corporations sell shares on the open market. A WSDE doesn't. LOL!! Of course not! Yeah they're more beneficial than private corporations too. LOL!!!! It looks like you need to examine the links I posted for you in the last post, #83.
Why would anyone invest more?.... -to provide themselves an edge over the rest? The rule is "one worker; one share; one vote". Typically workers buy into the co-op with a standard amount, whether it's $100 or $1000 or $5000, and that gets them one share and one vote. That's a fair suggestion, but how many people do you think there are here who actually know valid facts about WSDEs? One? Two? Who or how many have looked into it and studied into it? You would admit you haven't. So you ask questions. But aside from the way every thread quickly goes off topic, I am not a skilled writer and I don't have time to provide all the information that is needed to educate people in the subject. And there is an abundance of information available on the web, so you could research it much more efficiently, or I could provide links to be discussed. I provide a link; interested posters discuss it; I provide another link to address issues that came up; interested posters discuss it; etc, etc. I provided you with 4 good links above. That's a start.
Did you find the Arizmendi Bakery in California? Search the Members list here: https://usworker.coop/member-directory/
I'm looking for you to define a WSDE from how they come into existence, and grow. Where does the money initially come from, how are new employees added and would a democratic process be implemented if downsizing becomes necessary, etc. As I've said numerous times, I have no problem with people creating a WSDE as long as THEY put up the money and take the risk without imposing anything upon taxpayers.
Sorry. I missed the significance of that. It occurs to me that fiat money only deepens the crisis and makes it more obvious.
What has that to do with my question? Are not WSDEs private owned? So they ARE private owned. Therefore, like any private owned business which is not one I can invest in my ONLY investment they should be capable of receiving from me is through the market of their goods and/or services produced. There are but two ways any business can be a benefit to me. One is by producing a product or service I find desirable at a price I am willing to pay, and Two by allowing me to invest in them and benefit from their growth, fully accepting the risk should they fail to produce desirable growth or a loss. I took a quick look at the links but they in no way answer any questions I have. But feel free to begin a WSDE if you would like, and if you can produce a product/service at a price and quality acceptable to me I might become a consumer of it, but don't ask me or government to fund its creation in any way.
You need to start doing your own research at some point. I was asked by a national organization to organize and assist some local folks who want to start a WSDE, but I don't have the expertise I believe I need in law, organizational structures, organizing strategies, and other needed skills that would be needed, and I don't have connections with those who do. But I can tell you this: WSDEs can be established in several ways. **They can begin new by getting funding if they can find it although banks currently seem to resist funding them because they are collectives and the bank wants one individual who is the bottom line for repayment of the loan of the effort crashes. **They can begin by buying out existing owners. With baby boomers starting to retire, there are small business owners who have prospered, enjoyed dedicated employees, love their employees, and do not want to abandon them, and they don't want to sell the business to another business that may not take the interest in it that the selling owner has. They don't want the business crushed by a buyout that wants to end the competition. So these owners are opening up to the idea of selling their business to their employees and love the idea. **They can begin when a business declares bankruptcy. They grow by utilizing various strategies, like canvasing the community to find out what the residents want and then producing accordingly. This happened with a construction chemical company in recent years. The business collapsed during the housing crisis and the workers took it over, canvased the community, and switched to production of non-toxic, biodegradable, non-polluting household cleaning chemicals. The money comes from workers' buy-ins, and loans from various organizations and governments that loan money for such purposes, and banks if they can be found. New employees usually have the choice of being ordinary employees, or being member-workers by buying into the co-op by buying a share of stock. Downsizing: Mondragon, for example, has never laid off any member due to economic slumps, including when Fagor failed and closed. They either find alternate employment in other subdivisions, or the workers have agreed to take a cut in pay and supplemented by business funds/profits in the business accounts so that all workers may keep working and earning without layoffs. No WSDE that I know of has ever cost taxpayers anything. Some states have established a loan fund for financial assistance but it is a loan and must be repaid. There you are, point-by-point.
I'd really like to see you post an example of how that would work. So each new employee would have to put up the same amount as the original employees? And that is why I suggest creating a thread on WSDE, so that those interested and knowledgeable of the subject can answer questions more thoroughly. While I'm not opposed to WSDEs, I have little interest in becoming involved in discussing them relative to every thread topic as it detracts from the depth of discussion on the topic title. None of the links mention anything about "debt being proof of our wealth" which is the topic of this thread. WSDEs are welcome to compete with private/public or any other form of business they wish to.
No, and I didn't look. I'm simply trying to get this thread back on topic. Please start a thread on WSDEs if that is something of interest to you.
I might do that if this thread had anything to do with WSDE. But, Thank you for the points. Can we allow this and other threads to return to their OP topics now?
-by the workers. Sure. Interesting word choice, since purchases of goods and services cannot usually be resold for profit. But yes, the only financial connection with WSDEs by non-members would be via purchases. That's right. But tell me, do you value non-pollution of your community and non-toxic and harmless products? I think if you were honestly interested in answers, you would do a bit more than take a quick look. I got most of my own answers to your questions from such online sources over the last, say, year. So they're available. No more than you would fund a capitalist business started by someone else.
What, exactly, are you requesting? Tell me and I'll see what I can do. That would be determined by the Articles of Incorporation. Some may keep it constant, some may increment it with inflation, and some may increase it with the value of the business I would think. I was just answering Longshot in post #13. It wasn't me who changed the topic, and if it bothers you, why have you continued to ask questions and post opinions on it? Plus, you seem to be justifying not viewing the links I provided on the basis of them being off-topic. If so, that shows the "depth" of your interest and your sincerity on the subject. Did you look at them or not? They probably take more time than you want to spend on it.
Spot on. Money printing is simply theft. Or redistribution if you prefer to mince words. It devalues all the cash savings in the country and then this stolen wealth goes to the person who prints the money. The state bank typically. Also this advantages debtors, since it devalues their debt. Debtors love inflation, as much as their creditors will let them get away with. If you are in debt, money printing is your friend. If you are in credit, your enemy. Knock on effect = increased paper value of assets, but no increased actual value. This allows for thiefs to cry "rich getting richer" and then justify stealing more.
