I have thought quite a bit about this lately. I believe that the United States is rapidly headed toward a certain and inevitable demise. A steady decline in her state of education, economy, productivity, and world standing. A series of military defeats on a variety of battlefields. A crumbling of her economy, and a sinking into a record depression. Eventually, a takeover by the most powerful of its debt-owners or lenders. The end of the United States, and (there is not much doubt) the erecting of some foreign powers flag. And at the bottom of all this will be attributed a weakening and a dumbing-down of the United States youth. A decline in the quality and intellect of her next generations. Witness the following, and tell me I am wrong: * The steady decline of the US in world-wide rankings of childrens academic scores and potential. * The American publics fascination (and obsession even) with shallow and vapid concerns. The Kardashians. Video games. Greasy McDonalds fast food. Texting moron friends on bejeweled cell phones. Style over substance as a way of life. Rap music delivered by functional idiots with gold-plated teeth and tin-foil intellects. Reality television that is anything but reality. Talentless singers nominated for Grammies based upon some producers skill with a computer and a vocoder program. Jennifer Annistons womb. Jennifer Lopezs enormous a$$. * Speaking of computer gaming and video games, we have two generations now of boys and young men who are totally disconnected from reality, and who spend countless hours on the computer and on the gaming station, engaging in escapist behaviors that do nothing to prepare them for real life in the real world. * The re-election of Barack Obama (a talentless, dishonest, and morally-bankrupt politician with a socialist-agenda-friendly media support-system and a messiah complex the size of the planet Jupiter) by an electorate with a collective average IQ of 91. * Whether you believe in God or not, the removal of all references to God and faith from our childrens schools, textbooks, public landmarks, social media, and lives. Along with that, the removal of anything resembling a moral compass or a set of golden rules by which to live. * The systematic dismantling of our military, and a slow-but-steady effort to remove the 2nd Amendment (and indeed the Constitution) from our vocabulary. * The record number of Americans who pay no federal taxes, but are happily subsisting on a variety of State/federal welfare cash cows, food stamps, and government support programs. And blaming all their failures on somebody else. * A crippled/stalled economy, a national debt that is on pace to exceed 20 trillion over the next two years, and a federal government that is more concerned with party politics and discrediting the other side than they are will giving us good government. And blaming all their failures on somebody else. * A record number of college graduates who cannot (or will not) find a job, and who reside in their parents basement, playing video games, texting their moron friends on cell phones paid for by their parents, posting every detail of their lives on Facebook, and blaming all their failures on somebody else. Please tell me I am wrong. Please throw some Pollyanna sunshine my way. Demonstrate for me why this scenario is wrong, and (why or how) you believe the United States will even exist in 35 years.
Your post is way too long when there is an easy explanation why superpowers fade : Superpowers base their strength over a solid establishment that is revolutionary for it's era => The most crucial priority of this establishment is to maintain itself and focus in what it does best => By maintaining and focusing solid establishments either do not evolve at all (Ming China) or evolve too slow to make a difference (USSR) ==> After receiving the first signals that things go south the establishment tries to "go back in the basics" reviving "good old days" and in the process losing what little evolution it has gained ==> Because not everyone is happy with going back the establishment is no longer solid and no longer revolutionary , it is irrelevant ==> Another establishment takes over and start it's circle.
Nice perspective, and thank you for your opinions and observations. The length of my posting was just about right, in my opinion. Not so long that the average reader would lose interest, and not so short that some partisan-political types would take one glance at it, conclude that I was one or the other of the 'R' or 'D' Party-faithful knot-heads, and (of course) jump to some partisan conclusions regarding my motivations for the posting. I condensed about ten years of my own frustration and sadness into those few paragraphs and bullets, so just be thankful that I didn't post some sort of stream-of-conscienceness epic instead.
I will comment on a couple of your points: It is a statistical fact that those who voted for Obama have higher average IQ's than those who voted for Bush. Not that there are not smart Republicans. The average is brought down by all the religious right fanatics who still believe in creationism. The Golden Rule (Do unto others) was first coined by Confucius who existed centuries before Christ and the system of Government modeled after his ideas and moral compass lasted far longer than anything the west has devised. Part of the reason the US became great was because of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The purpose of the constitution was/is to prohibit the fusion of church and state. The founders discuss the evils of Church involvement in State affairs at great length. It is because we are forgetting and ignoring these concepts that our country is having problems (IMO). How can we expect the youth of today to respect the rights of others when the State keeps teaching them otherwise. This is just ignorance of the facts. Total military spending at the end of Clinton's term was just over 300 Billion. After 8 years of Bush it skyrocketed to over 900 Billion. That extra 600 Billion has not made us one iota safer but it has caused significant debt and filled the coffers of the elite who are invested in the military industrial complex. If we had spent this extra 600 Billion (stop and think here please, do you have any clue how much money this is ?) on development of new technology, business and education we would be in a far better position going forward. Corporations currently make up 10% of federal income. They are supposed to be paying 50%. The money that goes out to welfare (feeding the poor) is a rounding error on total income. Your beloved Military Spending is the largest welfare program on the planet. I encourage you to study a little history and find out what happens when a society ignores the poor. It is not pretty. Unfortunately I have little sunshine to throw your way. It does not matter whether you vote Republican or Democrat be it President or Congress. Every leader you elect got into power because of money from the oligopoly and it is the oligopoly they will serve once in power. This is the main reason why we are spending a trillion dollars a year on the military industrial complex "Not" because of a few terrorists wearing towels. These "terrorists" have our country so cowering in fear from one attack over a decade ago that they are now willing to give up more rights and freedoms for the illusion of increased security. Aside from the fact that we created these terrorists and continue to create them by killing innocent people on a regular basis; The fact remains the odds of having harm come to you from terrorism is orders of magnitude less than the odds of harm coming to you by driving to work in the morning. Yet, over some illusion of completely eliminating any threat (as if such a thing were possible to begin with) and even though this threat is statistically zero, we will give up our freedoms and bankrupt the treasury. 300 Billion (the rate after Clinton) is an enormous amount of money. Way more than is needed to deal with a few terrorists. (It would help if we would stop supporting Al Qaeda by giving them hope and arming them and in this case we would save some money) There is no "Enemy" of any significance that we have to worry about. This is an illusion. Everyone knows that war Russia, China, or any other nuclear equipped country is out of the question .. and if we do go to war its all over anyway so there is no point in wasting the future on building up conventional forces as if we are going to have a war with them. And EVERYONE knows this. It is not a secret. The crazy rules and regulations to try and do business in this country ... support the oligopoly. The legislative system ... support the oligopoly The criminal justice system ... supports the oligopoly Environmental regulations that get way past ridiculous .. supports the oligopoly At every turn when a decision of importance to the oligopoly is being made, the oligopoly is there to fight tooth and nail to get its way. Why do we not have universal healthcare but somehow have higher healthcare costs than every other first world country that does ? Price fixing = The oligopoly. Obama has nothing to reduce military spending so I no clue what you are talking about when you say the military is somehow being systematically dismantled. I hear this nonsense from various places but it is Orwellian doublespeak. Claiming the military is starving while it continues to get more money every year ? What is this ... please explain ? Losing on the battlefield ? Where, why, and what are we doing there to begin with.
I believe the United States will exist in 35 years, but it won't be a superpower. We'll probably resemble a typical Latin American country with a rich and powerful elite but almost everyone else is poor. We will be far less free than we have been, but most people won't miss freedom. There are literally hundreds of reasons why I think this is our probable future, but I can boil it down to two: The attraction of soft tyranny: I'm impressed by the genius of Alexis de Tocqueville, but he predicted that is how the United States might wind up, where we were strangled with a multitude of rules designed for our own good to the point that we wouldn't be free to do anything. If you've not read Democracy in America, I recommend it. For a foreigner, he really captured the essence of Americanism that made such a republic possible as well as how he thought it would go away. Entropy: The circumstances that made the US the greatest nation in the world were a multitude of small factors that lucked up in coming together in one place at one time. You start pulling out a few strings at a time and eventually it all collapses. It's harder to keep it than to just collapse in the steaming heap that much of the rest of the world is. That's why so much of the world is a steaming pile; there are more roads to that than to greatness.
Ha ha ha ha! Let's get this out of the way; I'm not a conservative, nor am I republican. And this conversation isn't about Obama, nor is it about excusing Obama's failures by demonizing GW Bush. Re; "It is a statistical fact that those who voted for Obama have higher average IQ's than those who voted for Bush," I would SERIOUSLY love to see the data on that. I'm a man of science, and my profession relies upon a certain adherence to the scientific method. Show me that data, when you have the time. Clarify, if you will; The government is teaching our children exactly what, with regard to religion? I work in and around the military, and I was in the Army for 26 years. I'm sort of a subject-matter-expert. As far as the simple numbers, you are not accounting for inflation, nor are you accounting for the fact that Clinton presided over a smattering of smaller conflicts, while your Demon Bush presided over 911 and the major wars that ensued. I'm not speaking to right or wrong, I'm speaking to numbers and budgets. Your comparison is flawed, that's all I am saying. As far as the systematic dismantling of our US military, please don't confuse budget dollars with the numbers of troops, programs, vehicles, aircraft, vessels, and associated overhead/ratios. Trust me, our US military is being gutted, and the troop levels are being cut dramatically. You need only to read the news on any number of reputable internet news sources to confirm that bit of information. Also being cut are a variety of major programs and platforms, including one of the aircraft that I fly and test. If the overall military budget remains high, it is safe to say that a boatload of DoD government servants are drawing fat paychecks while the troops are being shown to the door. You need to clarify that, friend. Corporations currently only pay 10% federal tax, when they should be paying 50%? Is that your assertion, and if so, can you provide me the genesis of that opinion? And re; 'my beloved Military Spending', where in the world did you get the impression that I am in love with military spending? I personally am in love with our US Armed Forces service members, and I am all for spending LESS by cutting out all the waste, fraud, and abuse that goes on in our defense acquisition programs. Unfortunately, your Congressmen and even your President are not willing to climb out of bed with the crooks who help to keep them in office, and so when it comes time to make Defense cuts, the troops (down at the level where the rubber meets the road) are the ones who end up suffering the worst. And the governmental bureaucratic footprint grows larger and larger and larger. Thousands and thousands of un-fireable government servants are on the dole of the DoD, and many of them drawing fat paychecks for doing little-to-nothing. I will respond to your other points later. My awesome little 14 year old dachshund is in need of attention. He's got pneumonia and bronchitis, and is quite possibly on his last legs. He just woke up from a very long nap, and is ready for a bit of a walk, and then his supper and medications. I'll catch you later then. In the meantime, please go back and re-read my original posting, with the fresh eye (and certain knowledge) that I am not a partisan-political jackass. I don't subscribe to the politics of either your left or the right. I'm just an honest, hard-working taxpayer who is sick and tired of the $hit sandwich that Washington DC continues to feed to the American people. They deserve better.
I am not a fan of either party either. I did however see a serious study some time ago that made that claim and thought it was funny as well. Here is a good one for you http://businessstatistics.us/portfo...mmary-reports/executive_summary_report-14.pdf The government should not be teaching our children religion. They should be teaching that our constitution prohibits the State from imposing religion or making laws based on religion. I have no problem if schools wanted to teach the basic tenets of all the main religions as part of a social studies class or something but not enforce religion in any way shape or form. That is what Churches are for. Working in the military does not make you a subject matter expert on the overall numbers in relation to Total Military Spending. I am not saying that you are not but working in the military certainly does not necessarily imply that. Inflation has been running at 3% a year. 15 years is a lot = 45% increase . 300 Billion x 50% = 450 Billion not over a Trillion. We should not be fighting those wars to begin with but regardless, the Iraq war has been over for some time now and spending is still over a Trillion. There is no doubt that some areas are getting cut but then where is all the money going ? Considering that these aircraft, and the floating metal cities that carry them will be obsolete in short order if not already. We should be cutting and putting that money to better use elsewhere. Who exactly are we ramping up for war against ? The paycheques of civil servants are ridiculously high and there are way to many of them. Not just in the DOD but all over government in general. On this we agree. Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post You need to clarify that, friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Receipts_-_FY_2007.png Here is the amount of income by source. The Genesis of the opinion (Corps should be paying 50%) is based upon how corporations started. Back in the day it was difficult for corporations to get workers because most people worked on the farm. Corporations need infrastructure and a readily available workforce which also requires more infrastructure (sewage roads power and so on) How many corporations could exist without this infrastructure ? and who should pay for it. A 50/50 split was what was deemed reasonable back in the day. We now have a more complex society but somehow Corporate contributions have decreased while the workers contribution has increased. We are on the same page here. I am in complete agreement. I do not think we are that far apart
No idea how fast the United States will demise. Every unified nation (union or empire) did collapse over the past few thousand years of history (in the Middle East, China, Egypt and Europe) Most states will survive history, as they did before. It can happen by a revolution, were more and more nations in the world are heading to at this moment in history. It's either a political fight and mass organisation, or the end of the current political system, because people are aware of what happened in Europe last century, which can cause a revolution if the current political system will collapse (do the powers at be care about the end of the(ir) political system? no, because chaos can lead to revolution, which will be in their advantage (a revolution means a mass fight followed by mass organisation via politics), as you saw and can see happening in Egypt and in the Ukraine) So the only way to stop another repeat of history (a mass revolution or mass organisation via a political struggle) from happening, is to see that politics or the end of politics is going to cause a revolution (or another repeat of an historical event) If a majority of the population does not respond to propaganda and politics (which most people did over the past decade, and will do?) the US system and politics stays alive (because no revolution or mass organisation took place) But how many people want the current US and political system and continue with the same problems and no progress? And how do you change the US back to independent states without a political fight and organisation or a revolution, or even by another civil war? Some kind of Robyn Hode 'revolution' is needed, a situation were the powers at be are completely powerless, because a majoriy of the population is fully aware of how they are being deceived, propagandized, organized and how revolutions are caused (in many ways); by suppression, politics (deception), bureaucracy, tyranny, by fear, by a collapse of an economy, financial system or political system, etc etc (or all processes together at the same time, a slow process, or at like a 1929 crash.
The "demise" of who's United States? It should be obvious to everyone that there are now two Americas -- one is the remnants of a conservative America -- and the other America is the liberal, aka Democrat socialist America. Democrat America is what the people voted for and it is progressing, doing great and serving the voters. There will be no demise of Democrat America. Thank you, Mr. Obama
Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one. What was that old Maggie Thatcher quote? "The problem with socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money"? Or words to that effect.
Conservatives have been saying this since the construction of the pyramids. And the opposite is true. America is getting stronger, it's becoming more moral, it's perfecting itself. The military misadventures are a learning process, that our vast military budget is wasted on nonsense which does not make us safe. Our schools are improving, and seeing and addressing their deficiencies is improvement, keeping those deficiencies hidden may have felt better, but it didn't work as well. We are constantly expanding our vision of what we embrace as good and vital to our humanity. Recognizing different forms of family is strength, clinging to the mythology of an imaginary god is weakness, the process of rejecting Christianity, will take centuries, but it is a process that makes us better human beings. We improve over time, it is our nature.
"Will the US exist in 35 years?" I have faith that Republicans will stop acting like one of those boyfriends that thinks if he can't have here no one can... and start working to make America better rather then trying to destroy it republicans please please stop trying to punish America because they did not vote for you.... .
Like most Rightwing "Doomsayers".... watch sparquelito's pessimism VANISH ...the moment a Republican is elected President.
Why do so many of these damn threads exist? No disrespect, I just keep seeing these "the US is dying" threads from people who perceive everything going down hill just because they don't like who is running the country or whatever policy is imminent. There is no logical reason to even believe the US will be medicore in 35 years other than the self-fulfilling prophecy shared by the demographic that believes this idea. "Our education sucks" is uttered by the same people who advocate to cut education, for example. The US Dollar is still the most used in the world, used in 2/3 of all global transactions. The US military is still the most powerful in the world (and largest employer). The US is still resource-rich, and land-rich. I see no reason for any decline in the US other than people (cough the right wing) who seem damn determined to take it there.
Actually, its longer than that. I think there is a Sumerian tablet which bemoans the approaching collapse of civilization written about a thousand years before them. In 35 years we'll all eat absolutely healthy and delicious food made by our 3D printers from dirt. These same printers will be able to make everything else we need; our disposable clothing, furniture, even our cars, which well be assembled by our personal robots. They'll also be able to make themselves so if anything wears out it can be replaced by the personal robot.. Everything will be powered by our pebble bed radiation free nuclear reactor, about the size of a washing machine. There will be no money nor working for it as no one will need to work for anything but simply specify what they need and the 3D printer will make it (or the parts for it, which the robot will then assemble). If we get sick the robot will take care of us. It, and all other humans on Earth will have their brains wired into the global internet. We will not be like the Borg, though, as we wlll be able to turn it on and off by a simple thought. Governments and nations will still exist but they will be service organizations. They will mainly educate us in how to use our machinery through video games. We will be truly free and able to go anywhere and do anything we want, even the impossible, through fully immersive Virtual Reality when reality fails.
The US won't exsist as a cohesive nation in 35 years. It will resemble South Africa or Brazil. There will be states like California in the SW US that will attempt to break away as Aztland by Hispanic supremacists. Like the 3rd world, there will be the mega-slums that will make cities as bad off as Detroit look like paradises. There will still be affluent areas, but much less of them. Any "Broken Arrow Event" like a Oil Shortage, economic collapse/hyperinflation, pandemic or nuclear attack will cause the house of cards to fall.
goober, Gorn Captain, et al; I am no conservative, and my feelings, speculations, and observations are not founded in any sort of 'left versus right' political ideology. I am an objective man of science, and I pledge allegiance to neither of your political parties. You may try to dismiss me with partisan-political rhetoric, and you may wish to demote my concerns with Party-friendly talking points, but the facts remain; This nation is in a deeper state of federal debt than any time in history. The current government conducts itself in a lawless and absurdly-arrogant fashion of largesse and teflon-like impunity. Our young people are rudderless, our middle class is shrinking, and the number of poverty-stricken welfare recipients grows by the hour. Spin it however you want. When you have a turd, you can either choose to polish it and put a candy-coated gloss on it (as you most certainly are attempting to) or you can flush it. This government is a turd, and it is time to flush it. Before we are all f#%ked beyond repair.
Re; the systematic dismantling of our military: "Pentagon chief Chuck Hagel is recommending shrinking the Army to its smallest size since the buildup to U.S. involvement in World War II in an effort to balance postwar defense needs with budget realities. Hagel announced that and other recommendations Monday in a speech at the Pentagon outlining his priorities for next year's defense budget. He also recommended billions of dollars in cuts that would reduce housing allowances and other benefits, a move that is sure to be controversial when he brings his budget before Congress next week." Thank you CBS News, thank you, for pointing out why and how reducing housing allowances and other benefits for service members and their families is part of 'an effort to balance postwar defense needs with budget realities'. Here are MY suggestions for balancing postwar defense needs with budget realities; * Keep troop levels exactly where the true experts (the field commanders) tell you they need to be. * Don't monkey with the few remaining benefits currently afforded to our Soldiers and their families. If you want a high-quality all-volunteer force, you have to take care of your people. * Admit that you have MASSIVE waste, fraud, and abuse inside the DoD bureaucracies, identify the perpetrators, and fire their a$$es. Currently, billions of taxpayer dollars go down the drain paying the salaries of legions of lazy crooks who sit around in offices at the Pentagon and the MACOM's, working short hours, taking long lunches, twiddling their thumbs, playing solitaire on their government computers, and (in essence) stealing a paycheck. Hurt them, not the Soldiers and their families.
Where did you learn this theory? I'm not sure i understand it all, or even if it fits with actual facts, but there is even a simpler explanation to that: people get rich, then they live above their possibilities, then they make debt and become corrupt, and then they begin to fall... this is basically the concept. However, i don't think 'murica will disappear, it will just change... and let's hope it changes soon, for god's sake, because no other people on earth had ever live so above it's possibilities than others ( see their huge cars, astoundingly large military and others unnecessary spending )... it's time to CUT, my friends!
Because the political powers of the world depend on the USA to develop new technology to help perpetuate the better evolution of Mankind. Your doomsday scenario is well founded with facts about how our political system is inefficient and has allowed an empty suit to become president when we earnestly do know how to organize government. It is a shame what we are having to go through, appeasing black people with affirmative action, but they do not know how to do community. Nelson Mandela died knowing that educated black people would rather cry of oppression in America than help him organize a country for black people. The whole world is recognizing this, and black people will probably be the last to recognize it, because of their vicarious and zealous identification with a black man being president of the historically "prejudiced," and corrupt, United States government. It is a good guess that Mandela refused to see President Obama, because of this dilemma. For non-whites, it is not about eliminating the corruption by correcting the problems (changing Washington), but rather, it is about vicariously wielding the unjust political powers to oppress whites to the advantage of the elites of their demographic - poor blacks are not going to gain anything for their efforts of support for President Obama, just like poor whites do not gain anything when whites wield corrupt political power. In fact, wealthy blacks will probably not benefit either - the corrupt white bankers seem to still be winning. For the people who were taught that the United States was founded by unjust slave owners, it should not be that difficult to realize that a just constitution needs to be written. It should not be that difficult for intellectual liberals to recognize that political corruption and commercial fraud are the result of the exploitation of inadequacies of the social contract system. It should not be that difficult for humble conservatives to recognize that the government, like any enterprise, needs to be reorganized so as to correctly deploy the efficient techniques that were developed during the course of its evolution. It should not be that difficult for political pundits to recognize that "political gridlock" is the result of the law makers need to be seen doing something, rather than nothing, and that they are not organized to deliberate the intricacies that our law system has evolved to. It should not be that difficult for the brilliant skeptics, secular atheists, and independent critical free-thinkers, to recognize that our constitutional system is based on philosophical information a hundred years prior to the organization of the social sciences, and that it is unreasonable to expect it to last forever as an adequate charter for guiding the approach to orderly society. It should not be that difficult for the average citizen to recognize that if the Founders of the United States were tasked with authoring a constitution enriched with the knowledge and communication systems that we have today, that they would probably write it differently. It just should not be that difficult.
I learn this history after few years of reading . People getting rich means nothing , Phoenecians were rich , Jews were rich yet they ended up getting the short side of the stick. Romans were by all means corrupted and one day they thought that they could accept Goths as refugees , get them in the army while keep on treating them badly , they paid for their arrogance when a mongrel named Alaric sieged Rome into starvation in his quest for food .... There are many stages the US can end , personally i see them reaching the point of imperialist Athens where Athenians just got sick of their appalling ways (specially what they did to Mileans) .
