This did not come about by chance...

When one reads Genesis it reads like a contradiction.

In Genesis we have things like the oceans and mountains of the Earth being formed BEFORE LIGHT exists.

Of course we know this is a falicy but there are Religious Zealots out there who will fight tooth and nail attempting to tell you and I that Genesis is an accurate account of the Earth's development.

No...no it is not.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes, as physics it is utter nonsense.

But, I don't see a reason to believe that Genesis was written as a physics lesson.

Given for a second that there is a God, why would his major message to mankind, the things that He would reserve for the very introduction of the one book with his direct message, be a physics lesson that obviously doesn't match with what is observable?

Christians should be focusing on what their Genesis allegory means. It is a rich field of meaning when considering it as comment on the state of man.

 

Well the answer is Genesis was a descriptive story written by a man or men who had very little to any at all knowledge about Physics, Celestial Mechanics, Cosmology, Both Quantum and Biological Evolution and Astronomy.

Such Biblical Stories should NEVER be taken literally even if they were originally ment to be taken literally.

I persoanlly think that people should try to concentrate upon Progressive Biblical Ideology such as much of Jesuses Teachings was specific to FORGIVENESS, LOVE, TOLLERANCE and how people could even learn to love their enemies if they could just for a moment try to understand them.

THOSE...are lessons worth learning.

But for Christians to dwell upon attempting to find ways to PROVE that what is written in the Bible are facts verbatum....well this is simply a complete waste of time.

There are well enough good and decent lessons in the Bible for Christian's and people in general to learn from and it ONLY DIMINISHES THE LESSONS OF VALUE TAUGHT BY JESUS....for Christian's to agressively attempt to either convince or force others that every story in the Bible is a fact...as it is not...not even close.

AboveAlpha

 

Chemistry is not random chance!

 

He doesn't get it nor does he want to understand it.

THAT...is the tragedy.

It's one thing for a person to be uneducated not having knowledge about a specific subject or reality.

It's a DAMN TRAGEDY....when this same person utterly REFUSES to either educate themselves to the reality or refuse the help of others knowledgable in such a field.

Then it just becomes woefully sad....when such a SELF CHOSEN TO BE IGNORANT PERSON....starts arguing and criticizing others...such others being people who actually are educated to and understand such fields of study and realities...as such a Woefully Sad to Behold Ignorant Person declares....."YOU ALL KNOW NOTHING!!"

Sad...pathetic....tragic.

AboveAlpha

 

Explain how your god came into being.

You can't?

That proves the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

It is not impossible to create order out of chaos since bacteria have been doing that since their origin here.

 

Where did the bacteria come from? How does spontaneous generation operate?

 

Sure, I agree that they should teach both string cosmology and brane cosmology equally in public schools as there is no consensus which model performs better.

Theories are not determined by popular vote, especially by students. They are certainly free to pursue further study in whichever model they choose, but with their limited knowledge and experience, they are not in a position to determine which is more compatible with the known laws of the universe.

 

I haven't been on this thread for 20+ pages and while I've been skimming the posts, I just don't have it in me to read every singe one so forgive me if someone has already brought up these points.

Entropy: The amount of unusable energy in a closed system which is a measure of disorder since order requires energy. If you had a container of water which you heated up to 212° and then turned off the heat source, the water would cool, even if you enclosed in an insulator because of entropy. However if you kept supplying heat (energy) to the container it would not cool down and entropy would not increase.

The Earth is NOT a closed system. We have the largest fusion reactor in the solar system (the Sun) raining down on Earth 100 watts of energy per square foot which equates to 438,000 watt-hours per square foot per year. The means that the entire Earth receives 274 million gigawatt-years in one year. That exceeds the total energy consumed by humanity by a factor of over 20,000 times.

This energy is captured by plants and is passed through the food chain giving all life forms the energy they need to grow and reproduce. As life forms reproduce, sometimes the blueprint has an error ( a mutation) and a slightly different life form appears. If the difference is harmful, the life form dies, if it is beneficial, it is passed on to the next generation. When enough of these errors accumulate, a whole new life form is said to have emerged.

Random Chemical Reactions: No such thing. Chemical reactions follow very rigid rules of physics and chemistry. If you mix hydrogen and oxygen and apply a flame, it will release energy in an explosion and produce water vapor every time. In fact, except on the quantum level, there is no randomness in the universe. What appears to be random is merely "chaotic", which means that it is so unpredictable that it appears random, because of its great sensitivity to small changes in conditions. Take rolling of a dice. We think of it as random, but if we were able to reproduce the exact conditions, we could get the same results. The problem is that there are so many conditions that can change the result (most too small for us to discern) that it is for all practical purposes, impossible for us to duplicate the results (if you could, you could clean up at the Craps table).

So if the correct chemicals were thrown together in the correct way and the correct amount of energy was given to it, it will always produce the same building blocks for life. Now how probable that the right conditions will be met is up to debate and one of the reasons scientists are so keen to find life on other worlds. If life can be found in almost every solar system, then it is obviously really easy for life to begin, but if we find we are the only planet in the galaxy with life, then we know life is very improbable.

Probability: This brings me to probability. No matter how improbable something is, it does not make it impossible especially when it is repeated a large number of times (think of the million monkeys on a million typewriters for a million years producing the Complete Works of William Shakspeare). Our galaxy contains 100 million stars, each with numerous planets. There are 100 million galaxies in the observable universe. Now times that by 14.5 billion years and the probability that life would appear on one of these worlds begins to look pretty darn good.

 

Plants had to evolve from something before they could use solar radiation, every other bit of matter is destroyed by solar radiation, paint of your car, shingles on your home, your unprotected skin.

The Sun does not shine on every part of the Earth constantly, so are you claiming that during the day the Earth is an open system and at night it is a closed system? That's foolish. The Laws of Physics apply throughout the universe. There is no example anywhere in the universe of an open system to prove the hypothesis.

At some point, scientists and mathematicians will concede that the statistical odds of something occurring approach impossible. The odds of spontaneous generation of life from non living matter is,

The accepted cutoff for probability is 1X10^-50

 

The damage to your car's paint and your home's shingles is from oxidation, not radiation. And while unprotected human skin is easily sunburned, plants not only survive direct exposure, it's actually required.

You need to learn the difference between open and closed systems. It is examples of closed systems that are hard to come by.

Funny how some people can claim to be experts in a field they obviously know nothing about. Isn't there a name for this?

 

I can only hope you are joking. I would explain to you the ways in which aquatic microbial life and bacteria/plankton use the suns radiation as a source of energy.....but it seems as if you are not capable of understanding many of the things others take for granted.

I would say what I think of your intellect....but that would get me infracted.

 

How did the aquatic microbial life come to be alive? From a mud puddle being struck by lightning?

 

I do not know, as if I did I would be famous and celebrated as the founder of Abiogenesis...unlike you I do not make such claims. I do however, note the experiments and data that indicate possibility that energy introduced to chemicals can produce very interesting compounds that resemble if not mimick the building blocks or RNA and are most certainly organic.

This simply seems far more likely than the alternative you forward.

 

Try to grasp this.

Before...BEFORE Life on Earth developed....VIUSES ALREADY EXISTED!!!

As I have stated before....even though a Virus has DNA just like all a Living Cell does...a Virus IS NOT ALIVE!!!

The two men who won the Nobel Prize in Virology won in the CHEMISTRY CATEGORY...not the Biology Category because a Virus is not a Life Form.

Still....a Virus is just a step below Life in Quantum Evolutionary Development.

A Virus is the end product of Chemical Reaction and is extremely close to being a Life Form but it does not fit the criteria for what LIFE is as a Life Form MUST be capable of reproduction on it's own and a Virus cannot reproduce unless a Living Cell first takes in a Virus into it's Cellular Membrane as the Living Cell mistakes the Virus as Food or Oxygen.

Once inside the Cell the Virus encodes it's DNA into the Living Cells Genome and when this happens the Virus REPROGRAMS THE LIVING CELLS FUNCTIONS TO USE IT'S OWN CELLULAR MATERIAL TO PRODUCE MANY...MANY VIRUSES....until so many Viruses exist within the Cellular Membrane that the Cell EXPLODES propelling all those Viruses inside outwards and away thus helping the Virus infect other Living Cells.

The thing is that the very EXISTENCE of the Virus shows us that there is very little difference between an Inanimate Long Chain Molecule that is a Virus....and LIFE.

The reality is that LIFE...just like a Virus...is the product of Billions of Years of Quantum Evolution and the tenets of Quantum Evolution are the Universal Constructs, Physical Laws and Processes that exist which drive Quantum Particle/Wave Forms to arrange themselves into more and more complex constructs thus from Quanta to the Hadrons to the Atomic to the Stellar to the Molecular to the Supernova to the Planetary and other Celestial with all Light and Heavy Elements....to the Ammino Acids to the Super Long Chain Molecules of DNA to the Viral to LIFE.

There is no longer any mystery.

And LIFE exists because it has to as it is just as Natural a byproduct of Quantum Evolution as is Helium a natural byproduct of Stellar Fusion!!!

AboveAlpha

 

"Possibility and more likely" are not science, they are religious. You have finally admitted your "possibility" is no more nor more less than any other opinion.

Now we can ask the OP question once more, can you explain how it could be possible for the thousands of nanomachines and googol bits of information necessary for the simplest living cell to assemble by random, chance? If you wish to claim it was all directed, then who was the director?