Thread got delete just as we were starting to agree

Zook's thread on the Trayvon incident just got deleted. There was plenty of flamebaiting and trolling by all sides but just as Zook, Subdermal, and I started agreeing the thread was deleted. I understand it's a pain in the rear to mod threads like that so I'm not complaining. I just wanted people to know that some forum members with very different opinions slugged it out in a long thread and in the end really started to agree.

Zook and Subdermal please jump in and correct any of my mistakes.

Where the overlap existed is we were building a consensus opinion that neither Trayvon or Zimmerman were angels. Now we certainly did not 100% agree with each other about the case but I think we all started to respect important aspects of each others opinions.

I stated that Trayvon's behavior, the alleged tweets, gold teeth, tattoos, etc would not be tolerated in my home. I also stated that Zimmerman listlessly floating from community college to community college with no real career and living at home while being arrested and getting slapped with a restraining order would not be tolerated either.

I do not say these things to convict anyone in the court of public opinion. I just don't think the overly romanticized view of either character is warranted. There should be a full and fair trial and we should respect a jury's decision in a very complicated case. I asked for a trail... not a conviction.

Anyway we discussed a lot more. I just thought that losing the final part of the thread was a shame. Necessary, but a shame. Zook and Subdermal made very reasonable statements and I thought the forum should know.

 

I don't beleive it ...

But if the Post discussion on the fasts or the understanding of the facts and less on Race Bashing, then I agree.

 

I have read many of your posts and like your basic position -- wait for facts in a court scenario .
I am not sure the company you keep is too smart .One of your mates believes Blacks are the root cause of all trouble and his Guru thinks Black Noggers are the cause of all problems .

Is that the sort of person you even want to know? Gadzooks, I hope not .

 

Believe it. It was actually rather pleasant towards the end there. People were saying intelligent rather nuanced things. It wasn't any of that all or nothing type of stuff.

 

I've made some troll posts on this forum but if someone engages me seriously I'll tell them the truth. I am pro Obama but I know he has made some mistakes and I know Bush did some thing right. What really irritates me about this forum is the posters that will NEVER no matter what take a break from trolling and find common ground on ANYTHING. I'm not saying subdermal or Zook are my best friends. Heck I don't know anyone on this forum really. I just think that if people you don't agree with 90% of the time say something reasonable and meet you halfway it is important to acknowledge that. That is the only way this forum will ever be halfway civilized.

Now having said that there are professional trolls on here who do not exist for ANY type of real discussion. They are professionals and I have pointed at least one of them out to the forum moderators.

 

If the thread turned out to be great, that is all well and good.
But if you care to look at the forum rules re thread creation, flame baiting is against the rules, and usually doesn't set the tone for a respectful discussion.
Not sure if this helps or not.

 

I said that I understood why the thread was deleted. I was just indicating that something truly good was lost as well.

 

You aren't the only one reading this?

 

Be careful, I always thought there were two Zook's using that account, but both were AH.

But maybe there's hope for him also.

You must have the magic touch.

 

Wow. So you guys are actually walking this back abit.

good thinking.

 

MisLed there is no "walking back" going on. I will freely admit some of my posts are troll posts. They are jokes. If you ever feel you want to engage me seriously on any subject just let me know.

I never called on anyone in the Trayvon case to be executed. I just want a thorough investigation and trial. Heck if I say Zimmerman is innocent I want to be able to argue with anyone that he got put through the wringer with no special treatment and a jury of his peers found him innocent. If I was accused of what Zimmerman is accused of I would want the cops to cuff me and treat me like a mass murderer. When my innocence is proven I don't want people going back and saying the police did shoddy police work and I got off on a "technicality."

We don't know what happened that night. We can have an honest discussion and say that. We may lean more to one side or the other but we can at least agree we can't convict or exonerate anyone at this point.

Zook, subdermal and I did not compromise our respective beliefs or values, but we did find common ground.

 

Oh sorry. I just wanted to say that the mods did a good job with a pretty hairy thread. I just wanted to be clear I wasn't second guessing the mods in any way.

 

I've only just noticed this thread.

I agree so much with your post that I literally can't find any other words to say.

Personally, I shouldn't and wouldn't even be talking about this Trayvon/Zimmerman case had it not been for the media circus and those on the left stoking things up to either make Whites look bad or make Zimmerman and ONLY Zimmerman look bad. This is the only reason I got involved because, like yourself, I see both as no-good thugs who do not deserve such media hype. I strongly agree with you that we need to let the trial sort this out and I will agree with anything that trial determines and no one should be throwing out wild accusations and stupid jabs until we all know the facts.

But you have to admit, the completely biased view of most leftists on this forum and elsewhere that Zimmerman is an evil monster and Trayvon was this little angel is ridiculously absurd. This is why so many on the right are attacking Trayvon and this is why it's a never-ending circle of stupidity. You and I have both fallen into the trap, but the difference is, we're both rational enough to come to an understanding that deep down we agree that both Zimmerman and Trayvon were unproductive members of society who were contributing to the downfall of society and a court of law is the best way to determine what exactly happened and what punishments Zimmerman should face should he be found guilty.

So many on the extreme left and the extreme right are lacking critical thinking skills when it comes to this case. We need to take all the elements into the equation if we want to form a valid opinion. I feel 95% of this forum are not doing that. It's like everybody has blinders on. Two lives have been destroyed, not just one. But considering both were kind of scumbags, the media should probably pull out and dramatically reduce the coverage and interest in the story. As should all the Trayvon Martin obsessors. Not that they will.

Anyway, Jebediah, my respect for you has grown immensely and I look forward to your posts in the future. Our views on racial issues are probably polar opposites, but deep down I now know you are a rational man.

 

Was this the thread where you constantly posted over and over and over again about George Bush?

 

Yes, it was. That was absolutely ridiculous, but I think he admitted to trolling there. In the end we all came together and saw the case in a very similar way. Rationality won in the end.

 

This is really a great read. Congrats. Its the way it should be.

 

Rapunzel I was illustrating a point and I was doing some trolling in that thread. I saw the thread was deleted and in it's place the only thing that was left was a note that said something like "thread started as flamebait." Well I thought it was unfortunate that the only mark left in the forum from that thread was that statement. Yes there were some trolling/flamebait things that were said by both sides INCLUDING ME but something really good happened at the end. And what is great about it is yes I posted about GW Bush over and over and other things happened but in spite of all of that in the end we agreed. That is certainly better than a left wing or right wing circle jerk where everybody agrees from the beginning.

Oh, and I don't hate Bush. I didn't vote for him but I don't blame him for the recession. That would have happened regardless of who was in the White House. Don't get me wrong if someone starts some thread that says, "Everything in America is worse since Obama took office" you will see all the cliche charts that depict the economy during Bush's second term posted. But if you wish to have a more level headed conversation about economic policy I will tell you point blank Presidents have very little control over the short term gyrations in the business cycle.