Time to Set the Record Straight - Russian Atrocity

With the War in Ukraine being top of mind - all the usual "Russia Russia" pundits in their Glory .. a fallacious utilitarian frenzy - now able to go after "The Rich" of political color they disagree with and/or -- which is wierd .. Rich folks from Nations they disagree with - and/or of folks who at one point had citizenship in that nation

All very strange .. perhaps the Blue side can explain why some Restaurant with a Russian name is being targeted in California --

Perhaps the Red side can explain why its ok to target these "Russian" Rich folks

All very strange .. but before we proffer any answers .. lets get the record Straight

1) Since end of Cold War .. USA has been responsible for way more atrocity - War Atrocity - War Crimes - Crimes against Humanity - Supporting Terror .. than Russia .. not even a Contest .. FULL STOP

and not like it is some big secret .. So .. if "Russia Russia" is the bar .. the new norm for when we can sieze assets from the rich in some nation .. Which nation is next ?

How about "Israel" .. ohhhhh .. .Yeah ... and of course .. anyone Jewish --- plenty o cash and riches we can sieze .Start with the banking families .. come on folks .. you know the names of these "Oligarchs" .. "or Do YOU" ? . Don't worry .. were going to get em either way ..

2) For those out there thinking "Do as we say - Not as we Do" still holds . Things have changed .. think again... Ohhhh but this cant happen to "The good Guys" That's the point mate .. these arn't the Good guys.

 

No one on the Red side is saying it's ok to go after Russian rich folks. If the US government can take rich Russian yachts they can take your trucks by naming you an enemy.

 

Russia has attacked a peaceful, free nation using a flimsy conjured fairy-tale for an excuse.

Russia is rulled by an Autocrat that gets his authority to govern from the wealthy few, not from "the Russian people".

Short of risking nuclear war hurting the Russian rulling class financially is our only weapon.

1) BULLSHIT

2) BULLSHIT

 

Running around crying BS .. BS .. is not an argument for much.

1) Since end of Cold War .. USA has been responsible for way more atrocity - War Atrocity - War Crimes - Crimes against Humanity - Supporting Terror .. than Russia .. not even a Contest .. FULL STOP

What part were you not aware of .. such that you were sent into a full auto-pilot - as if .. as if -- necessary illusion bubble was pricked .. Ohhh my my .. really out of the loop you were my child .. sorry to have disturbed your happy little fantasy world - which a cold shot of reality

 

@Giftedone

So what exactly is your point?

In response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, what do you think should be the response of the U.S. and our friends and allies?

Nothing?

That’s the impression I get.

 

There are mothers and fathers and siblings and friends mourning the loss of their loved ones right now and that pain is no less intent if those people are Ukrainian or Russian.

Anything and everything is used to justify and rationalize hate and hate has NEVER solved a damn thing.

Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

 

The "Exact Point" is that going after Rich folks - and Russian's in general is sets bad precedent .. the poll question of the OP ... for those that didn't get it the first time.

What we should be doing is a different question .. and a difficult question.

The second point -- listed as #2) is that perhaps "Do as we say - Not as we do" was not great foreign policy.

So .. as in the case of Ukraine .. we have Israel doing similar -- attacking sovereign nations .. stealing land .. wanton killing of civilians .. and so on .. Which Jewish Oligarchs do you figure we should to after . if this is such a great idea .. and who knows .. maybe it is a great idea .. what do I know .. Tell me which Jewish Bankers you wish to target .. the fun is just beginning Seth

 

It could happen to any nation that runs afoul of any other nation or collective of nations with the capability to impose it. As far as which nation is next. I suppose that would be the next one that launches an unprovoked war somewhere near NATO's sphere of influence.

It's not exactly a new precedent foreign asset seizure during war has been a common practice where applicable. This however the first time we've seen it with the modern level of global economics.

It has certainly amplified the capability, but it's hardly the most atrocious thing that has occurred even in this conflict. One is then forced to wonder why we should be more concerned with being fair to wealthy Russians than poor Ukrainians.

The shortsightedness of Russia is not NATO's problem. Nor is the fact that this plan was kept secret from them so that they could not make arrangements. War is not something you just waltz into I don't care if your army is the Kingdom of Heaven itself, and when you do as the United States has done, and as Russia is now doing again the consequences are vast, and unpredictable.

Crying foul over sanctions just rings hollow while you're blowing up people. I'm sorry if that's not fair, but this is diplomacy, and war. Not a game of tag.

 

they can take your truck by naming you a drug dealer. these things did not happen over night.

 

Blame America First!!!!

 

So you don’t want to put pressure on Russian oligarchs. And you say what we should do is a difficult question. So it would appear that your just sniping at the U.S. without suggesting an alternative course of action.

 

That's what most people do best.

My former FIL was a pilot but he is an *authority* on everything and everybody 24/7/365.

Here's a laugh. One time he b!tched for about an hour about black people and asked me to tell his ideas to Jesse Jackson. He honestly thought that I knew him just because I was born and lived in Chicago. He was shocked when I told him that I've met Jackson and his equally awful son but I don't know-know him.

The whole time I lived in another state...EVERY single person said some variation of "You're from Chicago? Where Al Capone lives? With drug dealers on every corner?" No joke. Some of them were surprised to learn that Capone is not even alive and I was cool with going just about anywhere I wanted sans weapon.

Moral of the story: There is no fix for "stupid". (Mods, I'm not referring to anyone in this thread or on this forum as being intellectually challenged. .

 

Al Capone … hahaha! Everyone knows that Frank Nitti is in charge. Geez!

 

Good luck with your anti-America, pro-Russia rhetoric given current events. You're sure to be real popular........

 

Correct - I do not want to target the citizens of another nation .. for the actions of their Gov't.

and Yes .. what we should do is a difficult question .

you support targeting the citizens of Russia - and cry "your just sniping" for any who disagree .. but the consequences of this action you care not.

So as in the case of Ukraine .. Israel has been attacking a soverign nation - Stealing land - Which Jewish Oligarchs do you figure we should to after . which Jewish bankers to target .. who is next on our hit list It is not like EU nations have not brought up this idea previously .. in response to Israeli Atrocity .. albeit not this far .. Sanctions .. but not going after Rich folks of the targeted nation.

Tell me Seth .. Who is the first Jewish Banker we should go after .. perhaps you will convert me over to your way of thinking ..

 

I am not here for a popularity contest .. I am here to get you to think .. a clearly unsuccessful effort in your case - only able to mutter nonsense accusations .. rather than address the issue at hand.

I have given no Anti American .. nor pro-Russia rhtoric .. and don't think you would know it if you saw it.

What is this so -called "Anti-American rhetoric" has you so troubled - speak man .. do you not have a voice ? can you do nothing but spit tired insults .. in desperate attempt to demonize the messenger .. sounds like we have another "necessary illusion bubble" pricked ..

 

I have been against the Russian invasion from the beginning and am a full supporter of the economic sanctions and aid to Ukraine. I think the vast majority would not tolerate any hate against Russian business or people of Russian heritage in the America. Any one who uses physical and verbal attacks should be condemned and arrested where applicable. I have not seen reports of violence but unfortunately there is always a minority that goes too far with the anti-Russian war stance. If they attack Americans simply because they sell Russian food or products or are of Russian descent that should be punished where possible. (Unfortunately you will never be able to stop all of the verbal attacks and name calling). This is the same thing that occurred with all of the anti-Asian hate that sprung up after covid. We have all seen the videos of the attack on elderly Asian men and women. The videos in stores, buses, streets and subways of people shouting racial slurs and telling Asian American people born in America to go home.

 

Who is blaming America and for What ? Speak man .. are you so troubled .. you don't have voice .. stammering out random demonization tropes .. is that all you have.

How is warning of the bad Precedent - going after citizens of Russia -- particularly the Rich ones - "Blaming America" ?

Some oversensitive fella .. sensitivity not befitting one sporting Thomas's name .. defiling it in other ways Im sure

What would Thomas think .. about going after the rich of nations behaving badly - you know .. - Individual liberty "ABOVE" the legitmate authority of Gov't .. and all that stuff most are blissfully unaware

Whats up ...what triggered the "Blame America" button

 

Well I do not want us getting involved militarily, but I do agree with punishing Russia in other ways. And if a military response is off the table, and anything that affects Russian citizens is off the table, what’s left?

A strongly worded protest?

 

It is too bad that all this anti Asian verbal and physical abuse happened in all these deep blue heavily urban areas where almost everyone is and votes liberal. Why is that? I agree that there should be no harassment or abuse of Russian ethnic people here. Most of them that are here or their parents came here to flee communism and the very kind of thing happening there now with their fascist regime.

 

We would never do any worse then what an invading country is doing.
If our rich people held assets in Russia, they would be under the same threat.
Its not a difficult concept. So no they are not off limits, because they are not US citizens. Just as an American business owner currently in Russia would face the same consequences.

As for what nation is next? Well any who think it will be cheaper to invade a country rather then pay the asking price.
We are handling China's transgressions as well.

 

Thats what happens when you mess with the Bull ---what are you goona do .. go nuclear .. OK ... No Obviously... so nothing we can do there. There are many kinds of sanctions can be imposed without going after rich folks .. many of whome are hit by the sanctions anyway .. normal one's .. So there .. there is something we can do .. and is being done .. Sanctions .. but, even these are often ineffective .. targeting mostly the poor in the nation affected...

This is something new --- not been done before --- and it is going un noticed -- no thought at all beyond the pleasure of the moment .. extra-ordinary popular dilusions and the madness of crowds...

All sanctions effect the people .. but don't target individuals directly - there is just one distinction you missed .. in this happy bliss


But if we are to go into your happy borg world - where the collective is all that matters - individual liberty - not so much -- Good .. Lets go .. Tell me which Jewish Bankers you wish to target .. or at least tell me why you are desperately ignoring the question of consequence ... for your in the moment bliss ...

Same consequence told ya .. many times over da years mon .. the Prophet Spoke .. said these deeds are bad Karma .. preached to all who would listen .. you apparently not being one .. Annexing Kosovo .. member dat mate .. whats the difference .. nuttin but perspective .. and no one cares bout dat Israel takin Golan ... well.. and stealing land in general ... condemned "Hundreds" of times by the UN over this 80 year sht show....

And dat just a few .. shorten the story for ya ... Told you what come .. "Do as we say .. Not as we do" What part you not get ?

Now - we want to make new rules .. throw out the old book - Targeted Assassination - Bureaucrat's we dont like .. dat be fun .. See Iran did some Tit for Tat .. Israel take out two Generals .. Iran 12 Ballistic Missiles into the US consolate in Iraq

Once the Box open --- you wanna cry .. ohhhh .. its not the box .. but Pandora know better...

 

@Seth Bullock
Not that I wouldn't think you could handle this ridiculous suggestion from "special"one, but I just happened to come across it, still steaming warm from the bowels of his brain, so:

You, with the strawman argument-- and yes it is a strawman, but I know how poor you are at identifying them, when they are coming from you, so I will explain it to you-- Jewish bankers were not appointed by the current Prime Minister of Israel, Naftali Bennett, so they could exert little influence on him; there is no reason to believe that they are on friendly terms with the Israeli Prime Minister, or have even met him. They do not, like the Oligarchs in Russia, perform the necessary work of running of the Israeli economy, outside of merely their leadership roles (earned on their own, and bestowed by the banks) in their respective businesses, which operate in a Capitalist-- not a government- run, system. In short, these men cannot be deemed to be part of Israel's government, or leadership apparatus, unlike the Russian Oligarchs. This makes the analogy, which you are trying to draw, utterly bogus.

On top of all that, the reason that these Oligarchs are considered, "on the hook," for Putin's actions-- as well as potential vectors for moderating (or even stopping) them-- is that they were gifted pieces of the Russian economy, by Vladimir Putin and, along with him, have looted their wealth off the backs of the Russian people. Though their powers, individually, might be slight, they constitute the defacto power structure, governing Russia, with dictator Putin, at its head. So they are culpable, for the government's policy, at least financially; further, they are legitimate tools, to be used, against the offending Russia, since its leader seems not to care much for the welfare of Russia's citizens, or troops.

Therefore, to try to argue against sanctioning these Russian robber- barons, by arguing anything about Jewish bankers, who have nothing materially to do with Israel's actions or government, and nothing, outside of religion, in common with the current leader of Israel-- who, unlike Vladimir Putin, does not have absolute power; and who is answerable to Israel's people, through free, open, fair elections, in contrast to Putin; by a population that cannot be cut off from internet access with the rest of the world, has a free press, and is not subject to getting all its information through a propagandist filter-- is a baseless, strawman argument; nothing more than a way to avoid facing the actual issue, through a falsely fabricated, "whataboutism" fiction.

 

I don't think we should be targeting "any" rich Russians. Only the oligarchs. Understand that when Russia abandoned communism, all state property was distributed to the people. Except it was only distributed to a select handful of people (basically the Russian mob). And those people own basically all industry in the country. And they exercise considerable influence over Putin. They are the reason he is a billionaire. So I am all for putting pressure on the people who can put pressure on Putin to end this war.

 

This is not about two nations at war whitholding each others assets ?? horrible analogy "not a difficult concept"