To those of you who are wearing masks in public.

Churchill and JFK were not suggesting that you be prepared as an individual - they are asking that the population pull together in one direction, indlucing with serious sacrifice, for the better good of the country.

Those were calls to go to work for ones country.

And, THAT is what I see you denying. You SEEM to want to believe that if you take care of yourself, then job done.

But, JFK and Churchill are absolutely NOT saying that.

Our founders didn't see it that way, either. They believed that individuals needed to make serious contribution to the fledgling USA, a whole bigger than the sum of its parts. Colonies gave up their rights of religious government. They contributed their state militias - full of idividuals ready to risk dying for their country. They agreed to follow law written and adjudicated by bodies of people widely spread and quite unknown.

The only tools we have today for fighting COVID are ones that work when we pull together - which does require individual preparedness, but it also requires cooperation.

That is absolutey true for opening our economy. It's true for travel. it's true for congregating. Etc.

 

I live in the town with the coffee shop that made the news But other than whatever was going on that day I rarely ever see anyone in stores without masks. It is extremely rare.

 

My point on positive attitude applies to individuals and society. That’s why I used the macro examples of selling with fear.

Some people just need to be told what to do I guess. Hope it’s working out for you as well as it has for me. I’m guessing it isn’t though or you wouldn’t be whining constantly about how things are or how others condition you to perceive them through fear.

 

If the truth causes some to be fearful shold that mean that the populace shouldn't be informed of the truth??

Is the truth of COVID more scary than the lies told by Breightbart, Fox, Rushbo concerning COVID being a Democratic party plot against Trump - something constantly broadcast even up through March?

Is the truth of COVID more scary that a president pumping false remidies and statements contrary to medical science - such as that COVID will just "magically" go away?

The only tools we have against COVID are those that populations must enact on an individual bases. And, those actions are not free.

As a result, the population HAS TO KNOW why these recommendations are advised. And, then WE have to hope that people aren't so psychopathic that they don't care. If they ARE that psychopathic, the a sliding scale of enforcement may become necessary due to the overriding health and economic concerns.

 

Good speech. We need you to stand in the center of Midtown Manhattan and convince all those protesters they are spreading the disease. My God there ought to be a handful of posters digging their lockdown bunker even deeper.

 

I get that, but why didn't the PEOPLE voluntarily stop travelling, when it was clearly dangerous to do so. Like I said, we did it voluntarily here .. before movement was banned. That's the part I don't understand. That citizens themselves didn't stay at home automatically. They had the same information we did.

 

What makes you think protesters in midtown Manhattan aren't wearing masks?

Do you believe that police murdering citizens based on their skin color is something worth demonstrating against?

 

They weren't told that was an issue.

There ARE a lot of citizens smart enough to put two an two together.

But, there are also those who respond negatively to any advice at all, let alone advice from expert sources that isn't necessarily convenient.

 

Great post. Couldn't agree more.

 

Indeed. Which is why in many of those countries who have succeeded in suppressing the virus, emergency laws were needed. Because many people won't do what needs to be done. The very worst thing in an emergency, is chaos. Everyone working at cross purposes, instead of working together against a common enemy.

 

If there is one thing progressives/democrats/leftists do well it is argue false premises. If you want me to address this specifically you are going to have to make a cogent argument based on documented facts that truth in and of itself causes fear of C19.

Again, specifics please. I’m not interested in anything but reality. What are these lies? You expect me to know when it’s you, not me, that spends time listening to them. Post a link to what you are talking about. Are they saying only 267 people have died in the US or something? As far as using C19 as a political weapon, I don’t see how anyone with any capacity for critical thought can’t see both parties are doing so.

None of it is scary to me. I know the truth about C19 and I expect stupidity and incompetence from politicians. I also know media outlets of all stripes package facts in narratives to influence people independent of the facts. That doesn’t scare me either because I was taught at a young age to spot it and how to either filter it out or use that information to dig deeper into the motivation behind the narrative.

As I said, I expect mistakes and incompetence from government. Governor Cuomo, Trump, Pelosi, all have said and done ridiculous and stupid things. Being scared of one person and not the other based on political leanings is irrational.

So you tell me. Are you more scared of Trump or Pelosi? Does Cuomo sending positive cases to nursing homes concern you less than Trump’s confusing our desensitization to virus with them going away? If all of it doesn’t bother you, then you aren’t really concerned about truth and you are just using this as a political weapon.

Hmmmm. Now you’ve flipped again from collective response to individual response. No not much is free. But anyone could have been prepared if it had been a priority. When I was dirt poor as a child my family was prepared for a scenario like this. All it takes is willingness to take time out of living in the present to plan for the future.

Who doesn’t know the facts? How many times have I had to point out the facts to your fellow authoritarians on this forum? I don’t know where they got their misinformation, but I can guarantee it wasn’t from Limbaugh or Fox. They claim to not trust such sources.

 

First question, I have eyes and watch the live coverage. The vast majority of of mask wearers were wearing thin cloth cover that we were admonished that did nothing unless we stayed well away from others not shoulder to shoulder shouting at others.

Question two: Of course I do. I have no complaints about protesters, it's the looting and burning of stores in the very neighborhoods they live that bother me.
Apparently some feel differently.

 

Nice try at the ol' flip flop. It's the right wing that is claiming that telling the truth is a left wing partisan scare tactic.

Trump is the president. And, HE has been lying to the people.

Rushbo, Fox and Breightbart were avid propagators of the lie that COVID is no more than a partisan political assault on the president. Hannity and others have stated over and over against the COVID is trivial and will simply go away. He has parroted the idea that we can't cooperate against COVID, because that would be surrendering "personal freedom" - good reasons not to joing the military, too! How could the safety of America possibly warrant cooperating? Right?

Are you in favor of following Trump's plan for opening our economy - the plan assembled by the executive branch politicians, CDC and businessmen and placed on WhiteHouse.gov???

I really want to know.

And, if you don't, I'd like to know what issues you see with it.

 

Yes - we don't have better direction than that on masks. If people actually did research, if we actually had quality masks sufficient for healthcare workers, we could do a lot better.

But, that is NOT the leadership we are getting. The leadership we are gettig from Trump is that masks are STUPID and he won't be seen in one!!

Every one of those persons wearing a pathetic mask is doing BETTTER than the leadership we're getting.

I don't like the looting and other violence, either. That has to stop. But, claiming that THEY represent the protest movement agaist police murder is NOT truthful.

 

I just received another blunt force trauma injury caused by a moving goalpost.

 

Thankfully the concept of Federalism in the US is still presently in sufficient supply to invalidate your hypothesis in reality. My country was not intended as a place where some get to choose what others “need”. Others whom the self proclaimed “choosers” know nothing practical about.

 

Ok. I accept your concession you have presented a false premise.

I quickly get bored with unsubstantiated accusations. I can go to the news feed on my phone right now and get the exact drivel there.

I’ve asked you to present the specific discrepancies you wish to discuss. I’m waiting. I really don’t have much interest because I chose to live in a state I trust to do well on its own. But I’ll humor you if you present specifics.

 

Ooops - sorry about that!!

I didn't mean to be measuring whether our federal and state efforts are failures.

I'm just pointing out that these people wearing crappy masks are doing what they were told to do. In fact, they are doing better that what is being modeled by authority.

I'm certainly not denying my opinions about that stuff - which I've made pretty clear.

I'm just saying you can't judge those individuals harshly when they're doing better than the president.

 

IOW, they're not MBS.

Who said we can't produce enough food? During the Depression, farmers were dumping food they couldn't sell. Give people money to buy food.[/QUOTE]

 

I conceded nothing.

Well, without having some framework for discussing what a discrepency might be, this just isn't going to work out well.

I propose leaving all the constantly changing and totally unfounded nonsesne spewed by Trump and the various states as an unfixable hash and move toward discussing the real issue of how best to open the economy - something I think you could be interested in doing.

So, I propose starting with the plan that Trump's experts put together - a plan that isn't constantly changing, was created with input from politicians, businessmen and medical science.

That plan is a prominent feature on WhiteHouse.gov.

Reasonable?

 

[/QUOTE]
Amen.

There are huge amounts of food being dumped today.

 

Yes according to the SEC many are. I can’t help your reading comprehension. It clearly states the more complicated MBS’s are mortgage derivatives. That is why all my other links, and some of your links also referred to them as derivatives.

You’ve destroyed your last shred of credibility. Congratulations.

More reading comprehension problems for you? Canada has a huge availability problem and it has nothing to do with production. I will produce normal amounts this season. If the economy doesn’t get rolling my inputs will be in short supply and production will suffer next season. This season’s production may not make it through the processing and retail supply chain. You are severely lacking in understanding of the complete food supply chain.

 

When you can’t back up an argument you have conceded. if it wasn’t a false premise you could easily demonstrate it is not. Facts are what you say people should get, but you can’t present any.

Well, since discrepancies was something you brought up and wanted to discuss, I think it’s reasonable you back up your claims. Why can’t you? Another false premise? Until you back it up, I accept another concession from you on that point.

What’s on the .gov is pretty elementary. The emphasis in numerous places on governors basing decisions on local and regional circumstances is great. Trump’s adherence to principles of Federalism is one thing I appreciate.

What don’t you like about the guidelines?

Hadn’t seen any footage of the riots until I forced myself to look some up and watch a little while ago. Looks to me like metro areas are open whether they meet .gov criteria or not. Geez. Watched one where a tanker truck drove through protesters swarming all over the freaking road. My dad used to pick hornworms off his tomato plants and throw them over the garden fence. Sometimes they fell near an ant hill and the ants would instantly swarm all over it and drag it off to feed their “family”. That’s what all those protesters looked like on that truck. Everyone likes to say Trump is giving the country a bad rap with the rest of the world. He’s got nothing on this protest dumpster fire.

 

Oh, so you want to play ignorant.

State one thing you want to hear facts about. I'm not planning on being the answer man for the well documented facts of what has happened and is happeneing with the abject cluster that Trump has made of this American disaster.

As for the plan at WhiteHouse.gov, do you know of any state that has satisfied the criteria for entering Phase 1 of opening?

 

I can’t discuss generalities. I accept your concession on this point.

I believe there are two right now. Are you upset that governors are following the guidelines by making decisions based on their superior knowledge of their states? Just like the guidelines recommend? I knew you had missed those parts. That’s why I brought it up in the last post.

Is that what bothers you? Are you a Trumper and think the Trump administration is supremely competent and qualified to tell all states what to do? You think he should mandate states do what his administration says? It looks like you are one of those guys that wouldn’t be happy if you were hung with a new rope.