Trump's Muslim registry wouldn't be illegal, constitutional law experts say

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The day after Donald Trump won the White House last week, the American Civil Liberties Union wrote on Twitter that if the president-elect attempts “to implement his unconstitutional campaign promises, we’ll see him in court.” But when it comes to the immigrant registration program that would target Muslims entering the United States — outlined Wednesday by an adviser to Trump’s transition team — three constitutional lawyers say the ACLU won’t have much of a shot before a judge.

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, known for his hard-line stance on immigration, told Reuters in a story published Wednesday that he has been in regular contact with Trump’s immigration advisers and that the president-elect’s team is considering a system modeled after a controversial one implemented in the months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. It fulfills Trump’s promise of “extreme vetting” for immigrants from countries affected by terrorism, a threshold he has yet to flesh out more fully.

That program, labeled the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System, required those entering the U.S. from a list of certain countries — all but one predominantly Muslim — to register when they arrived in the U.S., undergo more thorough interrogation and be fingerprinted. The system, referred to by the acronym NSEERS, was criticized by civil rights groups for targeting a religious group and was phased out in 2011 because it was found to be redundant with other immigration systems. - source ​

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While I certainly am no expert, I do have a rudimentary grasp of the Constitution, enough to know it is generally misunderstood by most people. Self-proclaimed Constitutional experts online are a dime a dozen and I generally ignore them. Where this gets interesting is that even experts with law degrees, disagree on the meaning of law. If Trump intends on reactivating or otherwise using "NSEERS" as a boilerplate for his “extreme vetting”, he basically has a green light.

 

What exactly did you think lawyers have been doing since the days of the Romans?

 

It was Obama that decided to ignore it like so many other laws he pledged to uphold but ignored.

 

I can't believe in this day and age nations continue to claim border security as a national right. Who do they think they're kidding, how can they can keep out those Allahu akbar shouting walking bombs? Give it up pepole the libs will never let you even profile them at the border like they do in Israel.

 

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We'll see if Trump actually carries through his own words. This is one of things he promised he'd do in his first 100 days.

 

Because all that matters is whether the policy is Constitutional. The same experts said it would be ineffective, discriminatory and potentially harmful but nobody seems to care about that.

 

How is it not effective? Discriminatory yes but its good to discriminate, we do it when picking someone to date why not someone to allow into ones country?
How is it harmful?

 

as long is was based on where from and not a religious test, it could be done, thus Christians from that location would also have to register

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It is harmful to snowflakes feewings.

 

Carter did it.

People from other countries do not have a "right" to live in ours.

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What right do Afghans, Somali's or any other group have to come live in the US?

None, of course.

 

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The article I posted was actually a response to the ACLU threat of suing Trump for anything he did that was unconstitutional.

 

Basic rule of news articles. Ignore the headline, read the text. The experts quoted all say much more than just whether they believe the proposal (and other related ideas) would be considered constitutional or not.

 

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Ya think? How so? Are you familiar with the laws surrounding the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System?

 

Yes, but that article quickly moved on from those silly political games to a much more considered and intelligent discussion of the issue. Of course you'd have to have actually read it all before linking it to have known that but even the section you actually quoted could have been a hint when it said the system someone is suggesting replicating "was phased out in 2011 because it was found to be redundant with other immigration systems.".

 

We had this law previously. It was suspended in 2011 so we could make sure we had an uninterrupted flow of jihadi brides. I don't recall, from the years it was in force, that anyone was calling NSEERS unconstitutional, at least not on this forum.

 

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Actually, you are giving me your opinion, which is worth no more than any one else's opinion. Thanks.

 

The President still has broad powers to limit immigration including registration especially in light of American safety. Every court has upheld this power since FDR put Japanese in concentration camps.

 

I have a doctorate degree in law so I am qualified to discuss this at length. For incoming immigrants, the Patriot Act or Smith Act may allow for some limited oversight in this regard. Indeed, it is my understanding that new immigrants are already screened to a considerable extent in this manner though I do not fully know to what extent.


However, to say that a registry of Muslim American citizens or resident aliens would pass constitutional muster, as some have said, is about as ignorant as can be. All such laws must meet the test of the 14th Amendment's due process and equal protection provisions. This means that the government must treat all citizens and resident aliens equally. A national state of emergency or declaration wherein constitutional rights are suspended must be made in order for such provisions to be allowable.

Good luck in trying to find a politician who is willing to risk his career by making such a declaration and in finding government officials willing to enforce it.

 

just like they can have camps people goto before they become full citizens, until they become full citizens, they do not have full rights

 

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The point here is not whether we consider such things as socially aberrant, it's whether such a course of action is constitutionally permissible. At least three national legal figures say it is. The only way this can be tested is if Trump actually does bring back 'NSEERE' as a national policy. Then a suit can be filed.

 

There is already "registration" of sorts. We have drivers license, social security ID's, immigrants and visitors have permits and/or Visa's.

IT is not like immigrants coming in give zero information and we drop them off at the corner to go do terrorist stuff in secret as they go off the grid.

 

Here's more:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/nseers-muslim-database-qa-trnd/

The Bush-era Muslim registry failed. Yet the US could be trying it again
By Nadeem Muaddi, CNN
Updated 7:54 PM ET, Fri November 18, 2016
Fear, anger over potential 'Muslim registry'

Fear, anger over potential 'Muslim registry' 03:04
Story highlights
NSEERS led to arrests, fines and deportation of violators
But it didn't lead to a single terrorism conviction

(CNN)Donald Trump and his supporters have been all over the place about his plan for surveilling Muslims. The President-elect once advocated for a Muslim database. Then he walked it back. Then his spokesman said Trump never proposed such a thing.

Then a source familiar with the incoming administration told CNN there will be a database and it'll be similar to the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System (NSEERS).
NSEERS was a Bush-era program enacted shortly after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. It disproportionately targeted Arabs and Muslims and was a point of contention between rights groups and the federal government for nearly a decade.
It was also a mega failure -- both strategically and, critics say, ethically.
What is the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System?
NSEERS, sometimes referred to as "Special Registration," was a program for registering non-citizen visa holders -- such as students, workers and tourists -- that President George W. Bush's administration enacted on September 10, 2002.
The program had three parts. First, it required non-citizens to register when they entered the US -- a process that included fingerprinting, photo taking and interrogation. Second, it mandated that these people, as well as others already in the US, register and regularly check in with immigration officials. Third, it kept track of those leaving the country to make sure that temporary guests did not remain illegally. Violators were arrested, fined and even deported.
Trump supporter defends internment remarks

Trump supporter defends internment remarks 01:35
Who did NSEERS affect?
Mostly Arabs and Muslims.
All males 16 years of age or older from 25 countries were forced to register. Although no religious groups were explicitly targeted, all but one was a Muslim-majority country. The countries included: Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, Yemen. The sole exception: North Korea.
Trump promised during his campaign to start a program that will register and track people from certain high-risk countries, such as Iran, Syria and Afghanistan.
Muslims concerned, resilient after Trump victory

Muslims concerned, resilient after Trump victory 02:29
What was the program's purpose?
US officials at the time believed the program was necessary to identify and capture terrorists who might enter the country on false pretenses or already be living among the population.
Then-Attorney General John Ashcroft said the September 11 attacks exposed "the vulnerabilities of our immigration system" and made the case for NSEERS.
"In this new war, our enemy's platoons infiltrate our borders, quietly blending in with visiting tourists, students, and workers," Ashcroft said. "They move unnoticed through our cities, neighborhoods, and public spaces. They wear no uniforms. Their camouflage is not forest green, but rather it is the color of common street clothing. Their tactics rely on evading recognition at the border and escaping detection within the United States. Their terrorist mission is to defeat America, destroy our values and kill innocent people."
Trump has made similar arguments to ban and monitor Muslims, as well as oppose the US' resettlement of Syrian refugees.
Keith Ellison on how Trump has 'disturbed' Muslims

Keith Ellison on how Trump has 'disturbed' Muslims 02:26
How is NSEERS any different from what Trump is proposing?
The President-elect has floated and walked back a number of controversial policies regarding Muslims, including a "temporary ban," a process of "extreme vetting" and even forcing all those living in the US to register with a national database. The flip-flops make it difficult to say for sure how his program would be different from NSEERS.
His campaign promises hinted at a more draconian system that targets a specific religion, bans an entire group and imposes registration on American citizens. However, his transition team says that's not the case.
A source who spoke to CNN said the program Trump is considering would register and track foreign visitors from high-risk countries, including but not limited to Muslims. The source did not specify which countries would be impacted, but said it would be a "moving target" given the diffuse terrorist threat.
When asked about a complete ban on Muslims, the source said "it's something we're prepared for, but it's unlikely," before adding "all options are on the table."
Trump spokesman Jason Miller denied that Muslims would be the target of a new program.
"President-elect Trump has never advocated for any registry or system that tracks individuals based on their religion, and to imply otherwise is completely false," Miller said. "The national registry of foreign visitors from countries with high terrorism activity that was in place during the Bush and Obama administrations gave intelligence and law enforcement communities additional tools to keep our country safe, but the President-elect plans on releasing his own vetting policies after he is sworn in."
Priebus: Media stirring the pot on Trump's Muslim ban

Priebus: Media stirring the pot on Trump's Muslim ban 02:34
Assuming Trump brings back NSEERS, what will be the likely impact?
It would be pretty devastating for the Arab and Muslim communities.
The previous program registered and monitored more than 80,000 men and boys, according to a 2012 report by Penn State Law and Rights Working Group, a coalition of local, state and national rights organizations. More than 13,000 of those registrants were placed in deportation proceedings, the report added.
Rights groups slammed NSEERS for targeting Arabs and Muslims, striking fear into those communities, confusing registrants with ambiguous and complex instructions that resulted in needless penalties, and even uprooting and tearing families apart.
"NSEERS targets only people from Arab and Muslim countries, along with North Korea, that is discrimination based on national origin. It is time to end the shame of NSEERS," Mary Rose Oakar, former president of the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee said in 2007.
NSEERS faced a number of legal challenges from affected individuals and rights groups, who called for its repeal. However, none ever achieved much success.
What now for Muslims in Trump's America?

What now for Muslims in Trump's America? 05:47
Okay, but it was pretty effective in stopping terrorists -- right?
Actually, no. It didn't result in a single terrorism conviction.
The American Civil Liberties Union told CNN this week that NSEERS "actually made genuine efforts at trying to combat terrorism more difficult by destroying relationships with immigrant communities and actually negatively impacting the ability of the federal government to cooperate with foreign governments in fighting terrorism."
The program also ignored credible data from think tanks, including the New America Foundation, showing that most domestic terror attacks are carried out by US citizens.
In 2011, nearly a decade after its creation, President Barack Obama's administration suspended NSEERS by taking all 25 countries off its list.
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) attributed the program's suspension to its redundancies and inefficiencies, not pressure from rights groups -- though it did welcome the decision.
So how is Trump going to revive a dead program?
Well, it never really died. By taking all 25 countries off the NSEERS' list, the DHS said it "effectively ended" the program. However, the structure remains.
Furthermore, NSEERS was technically suspended because of administrative issues -- not legal action or rights concerns. So there's really nothing stopping Trump from adding countries to the list and reviving the program.
Nevertheless, the ACLU has vowed to fight Trump's efforts.
Citing the President-elect's controversial campaign promises, ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero recently wrote: "If you do not reverse course and instead endeavor to make these campaign promises a reality, you will have to contend with the full firepower of the ACLU at every step."
CNN's Pamela Brown contributed to this report.

 

Part of Trumps speech for his first 100 days in office

In his latest video speech, Trump says he will “end illegal immigration and suspends immigration from terror problem regions.” and “investigate all abuses of visa programs that undercut the American worker.”

So a simple ban on the issuing of visas from Muslim countries and denying any Muslim refugee/asylum/immigration requests he will avoid any Constitutional challenge.

 

If any group proclaims itself as our sworn enemy with stuff like this-

"Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" (Koran 5:51)
Your most violent enemies are the Jews" (Koran 5:82)
"O followers of the Bible, do not speak lies against Allah, but speak the truth;Jesus son of Mary is only an apostle of Allah,and not his son" (Koran 4.171)
"Jesus was not crucified or killed,it was a myth and illusion" (Koran 4:157)
"Allah allows killing in a just cause and for revenge" (Koran 17:33)
" O you who believe! fight those of the infidels who are near to you and let them find in you hardness" (Koran 9.123)

we'd be nuts to let them into our countries..

 

Is there also a plan to register people of other religions and atheists?