U.S. Gun Death Rate Jumps 17 Percent Since 2008 Supreme Court District of Columbia v. Heller

You obviously didn’t read the article I previously posted on Portugal’s decriminalization of drugs and what resulted...
https://news.vice.com/article/ungas...-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin

 

Then let the GOP try it in one state. How about Sessions home state of Alabama? Think you can get him on board? LOL

 

I would support it, but my response was to your ‘thousand will die’ assertion, something predicted for Portugal that didn’t happen.

 

I believe millions would die in this country. Show me where it works here and I am on board

 

That didn’t happen when prohibition ended. Portugal’s decriminalization Policy happened 14 Years ago.
Spain and Italy are following Portugal’s example. Then there is the Check Republic, Ireland, France, Germany, Uruguay (never criminalized drugs) and many other countries in SoAmer are looking to decriminalize drugs to reduce crime associated with the illegal drug trade.
The war on drugs in this country is alleged (and evidence supports) to have been deliberately crafted to marginalize, both, opposition to the Vietnam Nam War and blacks by the Nixon Administration, fully aware of the potential long term impact on black communities.
I agreed with few things Obama did, but he was supporting investigating decriminalization of many classes of drugs near the end of his administration.
I was in Lisbon a little over a year ago; it was common knowgedge that drugs could be easily had, but non of my Portuguese friends seemed to care, but did share and have passionate opinions on the wine that seemed to grace every table.

 

Get a state to try it and I am on board

 

Keep moving the goal posts...typical of you.

 

Look I have no problem with decriminalization of drugs. I think it is a great idea. But all those places where it has worked put in a whole host of other services to make it work. I am not just trying to win a point. I WANT you to be right here. But you can not have one without the other

 

It physically pains me to admit this, but.... in this we are in 100% agreement.

 

To eliminate the cascading damages and associated societal costs of the drug trade and acknowledging the ‘war’ on illegal drugs is unsinkable in a free society, I would support, study of any services or methods that would end the war on drugs.
At the core of my thinking on it, we are a free society, and with that liberty is the right to screw youself up, eat youself to death, and a host of other things to damage youself up to th point you infring on another’s liberty, right to life, and all the other rights we enjoy. That statement goes beyond the consumption of drugs to all of the associated elements of crime.
Do drugs and get warped in your own home... no problem. Doing them and hurting someone else is another thing entirely.
Aside from other countries being successful at decriminalization from which we can learn,we can learn from how we dealt with a similar issue...that of alcohol post prohibition.
We allow acquisition consumption of alcohol. We regulate it’s production to keep it from being toxically danereous to consume, we provide treatment of alcoholism, we don’t allow it to be consumed in the workplace (outside pubs of course) and we punish those that harm others as a consequence of being impaired. And, we ended the illegal trade and crime associated with alcohol that created for more victims than those that consumed it and developed means to mitigate issues with the liberty to consume it. A fundamental question is, what is different?

 

Put the services in place at the same time and I am all in. But in fact meth, opiods and heroin are not the same as alcohol. The addictive qualities of those drugs in particular are so strong that we need to help those people that are addicted and want help.

 

That is something that must be part of legalization; some of the money that would be freed up by no longer needing military-grade operations combating drug smuggling should be put into treatment programs.

I do believe that Prohibition-type legislation is doomed to failure. We saw it with alcohol and with drugs. Scrap the war footing and start regulating and taxing it, absolutely. But make sure people have access to the proper drug addiction treatment programs as well.

 

Yeah I agree. But there are a lot of special interests that WANT the war on drugs to continue. Police departments all over the country gets tons of funding for it. I'm not sure this administration is up for this....especially sessions who wants to go after pot....but maybe someday.

 

Obama emboldened the criminal elements in society, making it unavoidable that honest folk defend themselves. That is why it is up since 2008.

Thanks Obama.

 

There is also the matter of the united states being bound by international treaty to continue waging the so-called "war on drugs" indefinitely. It has no authority to cease even if it wished to do such.

https://www.unodc.org/pdf/convention_1961_en.pdf

https://www.unodc.org/pdf/convention_1971_en.pdf

https://www.unodc.org/pdf/convention_1988_en.pdf

All three of these treaties, all of which the united states is a signatory to, require the continued prohibition of illicit narcotic substances, and the punishment for those who violate such.

 

One of the very few things we agree on. It appears Nixon started the war on drugs to marginalize black and anti Vietnam Nam opposition. Sounds plausible, but it would be nice to hear it discussed on tape... unless that was erased too.
https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/
Many of the issues in dispute today, everything from the Wall, Drugs, Taxes, racism/discrimination have been weaponized for political purpose and identity affiliation and yes, people make money off of that, just as they do with the gun control debate. That any of these issues will be put to bed with authority is not likely, but it doesn’t mean the arguements should cease, ultimately they are what keep us politically centered as the pendulum swings in the larger picture. Still, many Issues keep driving us to decide if we will follow a path the FF defined for us with the Constitution, and not fall to a complacency where we lose sight of our guiding principles and fall to dominated by the whims of the elite few, or if these squabbles keep us viligent in protecting those principles that set us apart from a World dominated by the powerful few at the expense of the majority.
Re illegal drugs, I had friends that used them in College in the 60’s and most, including myself were liberals. Now not one of them do illegal drugs, that I am aware of, and everyone of them is a conservative constitutionalist, raising children in their current image.

 

Personally, I feel this way about illegal drugs,
They are illegal.
If this continues, then the folks that want illegal drugs will obtain them illegally and create and foment an illegal drug market with a huge profit motive from Foreign countries like Columbia and Peru and Mexico etc...

So if you produce a legal source of drugs by Pharmaceutical companies, known quality and doses, remove the profit margin and black market.
Plus make the penalty for illegally supplying drugs to minors most severe.

Drugs are a self correcting problem.

 

The position on the part of myself relating to illicit narcotic substances has already been well established.

 

Many americans will not accept the "self corrections". They love their kids for some reason

 

I am sorry you cannot read very well or comprehend English very well either.

As far as Children,

"Plus make the penalty for illegally supplying drugs to minors most severe."

You do know that Drug dealers currently supply drugs to children, right ?
And they do not punish that crime adequately, right ?

Should be life in Prison or capital punishment when death of children occurs due to those drugs.

And with E.M.S., I responded to Heroin overdoses as young as 12 years old.
saved with Narcan / Naloxone...

 

You misunderstand. Self corrections refer to the people that die from substance abuse.

 

My only take on this is that people who die from substance abuse made the choice for themselves to start down the road of addiction, despite the reams of evidence that it's a bad idea. You have to own the consequences of your actions. Sooner or later we have to realize that individuals need to take responsibility for themselves, and there is only so much society can do for them.

 

That is a take many Americans are unwilling to accept

 

The self correcting problem refers to Adults, not children.

Adults often eat themselves to death too and there is no way to stop this.

 

You cannot prevent the catharsis of spurious morality.