Washington State bans gay conversion therapy on minors

Where did I say their was no subconscious?
I informed him that he can't demonstrate that the subconscious is being conditioned by the bell, or that neural input to the salivary glands is triggered by the subconscious. Neither can you

 

None of that is in there, but since you didn't read it, you wouldn't know

 

It's all about the rewards program the brain offers...

 

This is not operant conditioning

 

Really that's not what the addicts say..Well at least subconsciously...

 

There is no operator. This is classical conditioning not operant conditioning

 

Yet both can be altered by the user..

 

of course it is. If you'd read it, you would know that.

 

Your article discusses zero pathways and provides zero anatomic or physiologic basis for what you claim . Had you read it, you would know.

 

That's not in question
What is in question is what is being conditioned, an autonomic pathway that responds to the bell directly, or a coscious perception of feeding that then sends signals to trigger salivation, like it has always done in response to the conscious perception of feeding

 

If they be hungry enough..

 

You ask for a lot of pathway drawings, but I have yet to see any from you supporting your claim.

 

Bottom line ?

Behavioural studies are a work in progress, many things are theories, not facts.

Dogs are quite complex mentally, they have emotions, love, jealousy, anger, fear, resentment, Psychologists are studying Dogs to give insight into Human behavior.

 

What he asks for would be challenging for Neurologists and quite expensive too.
This is ongoing research and is costing Millions.
Research that crosses a vast feild of disciplines and trades and technology, technicians.

 

There is no reflex pathway from auditory brainstem nuclei to the salivary gland. Auditory signals are relayed to the cerebrum where they are processed consciously.
Go read up on some basic neuro anatomy and physiology.

Pavlov never demonstrated subconscious pathways triggering cerebral output to the salivary glands. But please feel free to school me if you know them

 

Pavlov had no knowledge of such things, what he did postulate was that unrelated events such as a bell ringing could condition a response by association ie food.

Example, ring a bell, and a dog unaccustomed, will not respond in any fashion, if you take that same dog and ring a bell, then feed it, after some time that dog will associate the sound of a bell with food and salivation is a reaction to the concept of imminent food even if no odor of food is present.

I did the same with chickens, I rang a bell before feeding them and soon a bell ringing made them stampede towards me anticipating food.

 

The dogs simply began to associte bell ringing with feeding.They began to exhibit the same behaviors they always exhibited when the thoughts of eminent feeding were consciously triggered by the bell. Nothing more.

Salivation in response to the conscious perception of feeding remained the same as it had always been.

 

Therefore, the notion that the bell subconsciously triggers salivation is speculative and unproven, despite some guy's liberal use of the word "subconscious" in 1904. He simply had no evidence of such and no ability to demonstrate it

 

It is not subconscious, it is association.
A dog begins to relate two unrelated events, a bell ringing with imminent food.

The bell does not trigger salivation, it triggers a food is imminent reaction unlike a smell of meat which would be a true direct reaction to stimulus causing a dog to salivate as it smells meat ie food.

A dog learns to associate a ringing bell as a signal food is imminent, even though a bell normally is meaningless by itself to a dog or even a human if no meaning is assigned to a ringing bell such as in a School.

 

I think we agree on this.
I have no idea why this was brought into this thread anyway, especially by the people who brought it.
It's more of an argument for learned bahavior than against.

 

Example of learned behaviour, my dog without being taught by me or annyone else realized that begging would not get food, so he began to ignore me eating, and then, I would call him over to eat, he kept that up until he died not long ago of heart failure at 14.

 

Oh look, more red herrings. Nobody is talking about neural pathways, except you. We are showing your claim about the subconscious is wrong. As both the links I gave you show.

 

you are talking about neural pathways.
All thought, all behavior, all consciousness, all subconsciousness, all sensation follow neural pathways.
you sure do yap a lot, for being completely ignorant about a subject.

 

nope. I'm talking about subconscious behavior. You are trying to obfuscate and throw out red herrings, because you got caught making claims you can't support, and that have been thoroughly refuted.