Western Countries are Incapable of Resolving the Race/IQ Debate

Do you think down syndrome people are equally as intelligent?

There's definitely different modes of intellect, like problem solving ability, knowledge, and creativity.

The IQ tests problem solving ability, and PISA scores test knowledge, both show very similar patterns among ethnic groups.

 

Perhaps they just don't like you or you automatically look down upon them. People can pick up on the attitude others project in case you weren't aware.

 

The Gay culture is prime example of culture being a reflect of it's biological persons within it.

Gay culture tends to be more flamboyant across the globe.

Do, you also think this has nothing to do with biological reasoning?

 

It depends on the test. I'd most likely pick randomly. But in any realistic scenario, I'd be able to use other criteria: science grades, for instance.

But anyway, in the sort of education system I advocate - if it could even be called that - this would never need to happen.

 

I went to a majority Black college, saw how they acted to each other, and also myself, and I wasn't impressed.

I couldn't even hear the professor some times, because you know who would yell obnoxiously at each other insulting each other with their typical BS.

 

I think "intelligence" is tosh.

So do economic statistics.

There's no reason to suspect that this is not just a matter of differences in socioeconomic conditions and education systems.

 

its* and I'm not sure what you mean.

Are you talking about the personality traits of homosexual people? I don't think homosexuality is a biological matter, so biology is irrelevant. But I guess certain sexual preferences can be correlated with certain personality types (in the same way as they can be correlated with certain music tastes or worldviews).

 

I bet in the education system you advocate you would pair slow learners with fast learners wouldn't you? Not fair to the slow learner or the fast learner. Stifles the fast learner, frustrates and embarrasses the slow learner. There is no such thing as equality. Some are smart, some dumb. Some can sing, some are tone deaf, some can paint, some just scribble. Some people are clean, some are dirty. It like that in aspect of life. The thing about the human race is that we are all individuals. We are not bots.

 

I wouldn't, actually. I would let people place themselves, and consult others or change if necessary.

I also happen to think "equality" is nonsense. So, however, are all attempts to quantify human beings.

 

Is that why super rich Qatar scores at the bottom of PISA scores, while modest income China scores at the top of PISA scores?

- - - Updated - - -

Personality is highly biologically derived.

Gay men have higher dopamine, and adrenaline levels, and so do women.

 

Funny, and to think I've heard folks complain about how a lot of Asians come across as rude because of the cultural differences, but they are supposed to be "smart".

 

Teens, Men, Blacks, and Asians all have lower MAO levels.

If these groups are more obnoxious than others, perhaps that is why.

- - - Updated - - -

Is there anything that you don't think is nonsense?

 

Your screen name and one of the flags you have on your profile suggest you are of Polish decent. I just can't get over the irony.

 

I'm indeed of Polish heritage.

What irony would that be?

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=are polish people stupid



ster·e·o·type
ˈsterēəˌtīp/

noun
1. a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.
"the stereotype of the woman as the carer"
synonyms: standard/conventional image, received idea, cliché, hackneyed idea, formula
"the stereotype of the rancher"
2. a relief printing plate cast in a mold made from composed type or an original plate.
verb
1. view or represent as a stereotype.
"the city is too easily stereotyped as an industrial wasteland"

 

I'd like to point out one observation about East Asians. In line with their high non-verbal IQ's, they also tend to gravitate toward things that involve non-verbal reasoning. They like video games, they cars, they like technology, and they like science, but you will rarely find them in highly verbally loaded fields or activities. It's interesting to note, for all the biology deniers, that East Asians, even with more income, more academically suited culture and work ethic, and envronment being optimal toward getting good test scores, do worse than whites on the verbal section of graduate level exams. They also have lower bar scores (verbally loaded). Why? Why does this pattern persist, no matter what?

CHYNA! The people there are more sensible, the cost of living is lower, and the overall structure of daily life is better.

I know about that connection, and I agree that it's pretty (*)(*)(*)(*)ty, but that is certainly not the policy of our government today and hasn't been for a long time. It also doesn't explain all of the problems in the black community, not by a long shot.

Eugenics does not have to factor in race at all. You simply decide that you want to encourage/discourage people with certain traits and act accordingly. You don't have to forcibly sterilize people to achieve eugenic goals.

That's because you are lumping southeast and southern Asians in with East Asians. East Asians (Korea, China, Japan) are a physically different looking group of people. In fact, even among them, I can usually spot the difference between a Korean and a Chinese person. Within China, you can often tell the difference between a northern and southern Chinese person because of height and skin color. East Asians all consistently have higher non-verbal IQ's.

Who said we aren't taking other variables into account? We simply acknowledge biology as one of those factors. It's more important because it isn't changeable, so all else being equal, you want to have an immigration policy that does not pick less intelligent people.

People who are good at STEM are very often found to have high non-verbal IQ's. Also, verbal ability is important for higher level mathematical reasoning. You won't find many examples of great scientists with average verbal IQ's. Einstein, contrary to popular belief, is one such example of a person with high verbal IQ, and you can tell from his writings.

Agreed. People who are naturally smart almost always find themselves pursuing smart things. IQ tests measure abstract reasoning skills and problem solving ability.

IQ tests can usually spot that kind of intelligence.

There is every reason to suspect that. East Asians, no matter who their parents are or how much money they had growing up, have high non-verbal IQ's. You need to explain why East Asians raised in white American families have higher than average non-verbal ability.

 

The Polish American IQ in the 1970's was 109 beating Chinese Americans with a 108 IQ, German Americans with a 105 IQ, Irish Americans with a 105 IQ, Italian Americans with a 100 IQ, Mexican American IQ of 88, the African American IQ of 85, and the Puerto Rican American IQ of 82.

The irony is that Liberals invented, and promoted the dumb Polak joke.

Just more proof of the hypocrisy that many Liberals hold, not to mention their startling lack of grasp on facts.

 

But no hypocrisy of using stereotypes by you, right?

Just in case you missed it, that was a rhetorical question.

 

I use facts, what is wrong with that?

I'm truly deeply concerned about the fate of the West as lower IQ people continue to have more kids, what's wrong with that?

Intelligence is what makes us Human after all.

 

The people who came up with the dumb Polak joke, must have been incredibly ignorant.

Poland was the leader of science during the renaissance.

With such names as Albert Brudzewski who formulated the proper rotation of the Moon, Copernicus's heliocentric model, or Michal Sedziwoj's discovery of Oxygen.

Of course, Poland was doomed by it's geography, due to being stuck between much bigger Germans, and Russians who in the 1700's worked together to destroy Poland, and then oppressed Poland even limiting education for Polish.

But, Poland long put up some fight.

I don't think anything demonstrates this better than the German - Polish War of 1002 - 1018, when Poland had just over 1 million people, and the German Holy Roman Empire had just over 7 million people.

Yet, Poland beat the German Holy Roman Empire, who had the help of Italian Venetians, and Czech Bohemians, in the German - Polish War of 1002 - 1018, with Germans handing over part of East Germany at the time called Lusatia to Poland in the Peace of Bautzen in 1018.

 

...and Poland has been getting their asses kicked since.

 

"It also doesn't explain all of the problems in the black community, not by a long shot."

I honestly don't know where to begin with this.

Black people have been in America for over half a millennium (that's not including some of the dark-skinned Indigenous people). The level of cultural degradation was never like this.

They had a very rich culture full of different types of music, decent towns, good ethics and morals (extremely religious at one point), people started to see the fruits of generational wealth, and the people tried to mind their own business all the way until the early 1900's. Despite many of the towns being fire-bombed, many people massacred, and generational wealth destroyed, black citizens hung on to the last shreds of what they had and tried again.

Fast forward a little.

From the highest levels of government (read the Presidency):
Black citizens were/are specifically targeted, undermined, and marginalized in every way in the West.

It really is a miracle anybody ekes through and elevates themselves. Other groups under similar attacks committed mass suicides, revolted, got eliminated, or something else.
What you see now is a culmination of what happens when a group is under siege for centuries.

Of course what I listed before doesn't explain all the problems in the black community. But an unrelenting oppressive force does.

"Eugenics does not have to factor in race at all."
I never understood the position of the eugenist (like I don't with the advocates of abortion). Conveniently, they are not the victims of that which they advocate.

Raising women's education and economic levels will get the results these people desire. I feel it is through a true hatred for humans that someone would advocate anything other than elevating others for birth control. People that violate universal rules can be punished by the system. But, trying to tailor humanity into the ideas of warped minds through eugenics is just a civilized form of barbarity.

That's because you are lumping southeast and southern Asians in with East Asians.

I should be able to do that. When people speak about race somehow being synonymous with IQ, it is the Asian group that dumps all over the theory. To salvage such a theory, IQ/Race advocates always want to separate the Asian groups. Meanwhile, the same people who separate East Asians from the other Asians will never separate the various "Black" or "White" groups. To reiterate, it undermines the race/IQ position to view the Asian race as a whole.

 

Probably due to the necessity of "systemising" in STEM fields. But non-verbal reasoning is but one type of systematic thought, and although there may be a correlation between non-verbal reasoning skills and scientific reasoning skills, they don't have to go together. No two "types of intelligence" (for want of a better term) yield one another or always go together.

Yes - when maths becomes linguistic and abstract. Which is why linguistically-inclined folk are sometimes good at algebra. But that's one specific type of mathematical reasoning. It's most certainly possible to be highly capable of dealing with algebra and logic but at the same time hopeless with shape and space.

Academic science often requires good verbal skills, due to the aforementioned linguistic component of high-level mathematical reasoning and also because explaining scientific ideas in a research paper is pretty difficult without verbal skills. But again, that isn't the be-all and end-all of being a "good scientist."

The two factors you mentioned are not the only social factors in existence. There is an almost infinite number of such factors.

If this is indeed true (and I must say, I'm skeptical), there are still a tonne of other factors which need to be taken into account. Educational experience, media exposure, peers, surroundings, role models, leisure activities, "parental ethos", and so on and so forth. Controlling all the variables is impossible.

 

Nobody is saying that life hasn't been harder for the black community--nobody. What we are saying is that it doesn't explain all of the things that have been observed globally, even when income and various environmental factors are adjusted for. You guys are left scrambling for 12 different theories to explain the differences, and we have one really good one that explains the difference in every scenario. Sorry guys, oppression is not responsible for all of their problems. White people are not responsible for everything wrong in black America. It's just not true. Besides, even if it is, beleiving in that narrative never leads to good outcomes. I know this because it hasn't worked for me. Check out my thread in which I (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and moan about my life:

http://www.politicalforum.com/member-casual-chat/451216-heres-story-explains-much-my-insanity.html

My parents would have been sterilized, as would I, because we are bipolar and have difficulties adjusting to normal society. It's a bad set of genes and shouldn't be encouraged. Most people who have my personality defects, no matter how bright, rarely contribute more to society than they take. I have many issues, but there are others who have far more than I do, and they certainly don't need to be voting or procreating. Unlike others, I can think objectively and don't believe things because they make me feel good.

Eugenics has the potential to do more for society than any redistribution scheme you can come up with. Most people who are maladjusted are genetically flawed, just as I, and many of my friends, have been. I had a horribly dysfunctional life and, magically, I have an exceptionally high IQ. How did that happen? Why am I smarter than most of my friends, who had far more resources in life? What's the difference?

So you basically acknowledge that IQ testing has validity. If you were to take all of the Phd students (STEM) at my university and measure their IQ's, I can guarantee they would score at least 115. IQ tests are useful for partitioning people by talent--we don't have much else. They may not be perfect, but they are effective. I've never met someone I thought was intelligent who couldn't perform well on an IQ test.

This sounds like religion. We don't have a perfect understanding of something; therefore, god exists. If you believe that it is impossible to control all of the variables and that, therefore, there is no point in coming to any conclusion, then you might as well give up on studying the link between biology and behavior.

By the way, having a white person raise an East Asian from birth, in the United States, does control for all of the variables you suggested. How are you going to explain away the nonverbal difference?

 

In which fair fight did Polish lose?

Polish actually won most of their battles in history.

Even in the 20th century Poland did great during the Polish-Soviet War, particularly in the Battle of Komarow where 1,700 Polish forces beat 17,500 Soviet forces, including the best Soviet division of the 1st Cavalry Division.

Texans brag about losing in the Alamo when outnumbered, but Polish were even more outnumbered in the Battle of Komarow than the Texans were at the Alamo, yet Polish forces actually won it.