Where next for Indigenous youth?

You know I would have thought Australia and Australian's in general would be a lot more progressive about this issue.

I have been to Australia several times and as I have to go to Japan in a few months I am thinking about stopping in Australia and seeing a friend of mine.

I had no idea until recently that Gay Marriage was not legal in Australia and I am dismayed at the hard stance some are taking as far as the kids.

AA

- - - Updated - - -

They are just kids and if I was there I would straighten them out 50 at a time.

You need people trained on how to do this as it works and it saves a LOT of money in the long run.

AA

 

Don't have an exact date, but this link should prove Aboriginal people wanted to move into these locations away from white Australians, and don't want to move even though the communities are unsustainable.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...call-for-talks-to-stop-panic-in-commu/6350536

 

After further research. I believe that date was 1987. A 1987 federal government report described the history of the "Aboriginal Homelands Movement" or "Return to Country movement" as "a concerted attempt by Aboriginal people in the 'remote' areas of Australia to leave government settlements, reserves, missions and non-Aboriginal townships and to re-occupy their traditional country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indigenous_Australians

 

http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...mmissioner-martin-stands-down-from-nt-inquiry

This Commission is supposed to be an impartial search for the truth, yet they appoint
Mick Gooda, someone who called for the entire NT government to be sacked to the job...
How can an indigenous person preside over a commission of this nature be impartial......
what a joke......

 

Gillian Triggs thinks its a good idea..... so it must be right.

Half the kids I've seen on the footage were white anyway... so its not very clearly even a 'race' issue as the media have seemed to make it out to be. The only thing more harmful to race relations then racism, is mislabeling other behaviour as racism.

 

Well, based on what we've seen and heard everyone would have called for their sacking. The whole system is a joke up there. Giles the first indigenous NT Chief seems as dodgy as the come. Look at the failed leadership coup where one minute Westra Van Holthe announced himself as the new leader with Giles refusing to resign and moments before swearing in ceremony declared he was still Chief with Westra Van Holthe his deputy. Giles stabbed Terry mills in the back just a few months after winning government when mills was in Japan selling the NT.

They should have been sacked years ago.

Just because he is an indigenous man, why would he not be impartial if you take the joke that this government is into consideration.

 

Well no...Gooda tweeted that he was distressed at seeing the footage of mistreatment of indigenous youth...

 

Actually Im disappointed that Adam Goodes didnt get the gig....then you could have
Gooda and Goodes...and they could both wear one of those stupid hats that Dodson wears....

 

He played the "race-card". Why was he just distressed about seeing Aboriginal youth mistreated? What a stupid, racist man.

 

I have refrained from getting involved in this debate until all evidence came to hand. I do this as I am not a reactionary person, especially when selling news stories is involved. I, like most of you, were shocked at the vision that was spewed across our screens, but then again I think that was the whole point. Since then I contacted a friend who has been involved with youth detention centres for well over two decades. He told me that as shocking as the vision appears it is common practice to use spit hoods and restraint chairs. I was upset, but as he then explained, they are not dealing with run of the mill kids here, they are dealing with adult bodies with child brains. He was not harsh in his appraisal, just matter of fact. He has had operations on his eyes where an inmate gouged one out of its socket, he has had countless blood tests to make sure he has not contracted Hep by ways of spit in the face, he has had faeces rubbed in his mouth and hair, and worse was when he was knocked senseless by a chair to the back of his head, spending over a week in hospital with a bleed to the brain. I asked him why he stays in the job, and he said, " if nobody does this job, what happens to the ones in these places that are capable of turning things around.

It was an interesting conversation, albeit unsettling and a little hopeless. He asked me what my ideas would be to replace the spit hood, and the restraint chair. Truthfully I didn't have a better idea. The use of this disciplinary action has been used for quite some time, and I can fully understand his frustrations at the system and the Sunday Night reactions from the general public. As he said, it is one thing to cry foul, but an entirely different one to offer realistic alternatives to help the situation. As he said, and I tend to agree, The problem isn't just the system, that would be easy to fix. It is society in general.

I thought about his comments, and they made sense. I didn't like the outcome of our conversation, but to me it seemed his argument had more merit than any I had heard from so called media experts or left wing feel good soldiers from the army of Rainbows and Cuddles.

The fact is he was right, it is society that is to blame. It is what we have become, and in actuality, how we got here. For at least two decades, perhaps longer, we have held violence and cheating as a right of passage. Let us just take a look at the highest grossing television show in the history of tv. Survivor. The whole concept is reward for lies and cheating against fellow man. Then let us look at gaming. Again, Grand Theft Auto and Call of Duty lead the list. These games are all about taking what is not yours and killing people violently. We wonder why our children are turning out the way they are? We are kidding ourselves. We are part of the problem but we are too stupid to see it.

So society itself is causing confusion to easily confused minds. Then you add in substance abuse, gambling, and domestic violence, not to mention apathy, what you get is a systematic destruction of basic human rights at the hand of SOCIETY. What chance do these kids have? F all.

So I guess my point is, all the while we are looking to government to solve the situation, when in fact all they can do is place a bandage on the weeping sore we have all contributed to creating. The situation in the Territory is purely a by product of a much more serious disease that I am at a loss on how we can solve. This is because we have people involved, and these days nobody responsible for anything, and if nobody is willing to stand up and become responsible( namely all of us), then the disease will only become worse.

It is not a simple solution to sack and pack. The problem still remains. You can not just release them into society, that is how anarchy Begins. Society must change, and in doing so the system will invariably change. Until we are all willing to take that step as a collective, this will only become worse.

This is not a race issue, this is a society issue. This is a blight on all of us.

 

Mr Fish, there was far more than that chair and hood. I saw waifs being brutally tossed aroud a room rag doll like. I saw the same waifs being forced onto beds and stripped naked. It was inexcusable, no matter where the blame lies.

This does not help.

 

I never said it was excusable. I never said it was right. If you read and understood my post you would see that I was sickened as was everyone else. If you correctly interpreted my post you would see that I have pointed out that what you have just witnessed is a symptom of a much larger and widespread problem.

I can see that by your animation you believe that this must be a racial issue only happening to Aborigines. You are plain WRONG. It happens to whoever is needing discipline, black, white, red, yellow, or purple.

Is there a better way than this. God I hope so, but again if you read my post correctly you would of seen that I have alluded to the fact that we need more than the common reactionary bandage on this weeping sore. We need real change, lasting change, a generational plan. Not some trigger happy decision to sack all and sundry, that will do sweet FA. Sooner or later the sore will weep through the bandage and the vicious cycle will continue. A plan has to start at community level, hard decisions need to be made. Ones none of us will like, and ones that may hamper our freedoms. To change what we have in front of us we need to skip a generation, unfortunately collateral damage may be required for the greater good.

This is only if you want real change. Otherwise shout silently, shed a crocodile tear, and turn over to the footy. BUT if you want real change, sacrifices will need to be made by all.

 

Your focus seemed to be on the chair and the hood, and both you and your friend ignored all the other brutality.

I have no long term solution. That is way beyond my pay grade, but, short term, it is obvious we need to educate those vicious brutes that treating people that way, is never going to work. It simply confirms and enshrines the never ending cycle.

 

I would be interested to read what you mean by change.....from about "hard decisions need to be made..." onwards...

I started a thread several years ago entitled "The decay of society" and generally speaking, I was told that
society had been decaying for decades, and to get used to it......hhmm
I have felt for some time that our nation needs Conscription.
People in high places like Laws and Jones will say "at whose expense" and "why should the nation
pay for this"...
My answer is...its one of those hard decisions...get the uncontrollable, disrespectful, arrogant youths
into the Military and have them learn control, respect and discipline...
Of course, Conscription would apply to everyone without a 40 hour week job, not just the uncontrollable......

 

In a way I understand what you are trying to say, I think. Like I said I saw all the footage, but it has been the vision of a restrained teenager clad in a hood that has been the most talked about. Probably because it closely mimics tactics used in torture. But again we are regressing away from the real problem by being transfixed by carefully orchestrated vision supplied by media trying to sell a story. I wonder if we saw the entire footage would the vision supply the same impact. Probably, but we will never know as it was carefully edited to suit the story.

It does seem hopeless. Perhaps it is my complete distrust of the media to deliver balanced accounts, who knows. What I have learnt is that the way we are doing things just isn't working.

 

Magoo where do we start. Maybe I am getting old but boy the world seems a little confused right now. We have to have make believe characters on GPS locations to get people outside for fresh air and exercise. That will do me.

Magoo I am on my phone and my oversize fingers are frustrating me. Your questions require more than a two paragraph answer, so I will get to this tomorrow when reunited with my trusty laptop.

Cheers

 

'Funny,' the hood and the chair did not really bother me so much as the brutality of tossing skinny kid waifs ragdoll-like around, nailing them bodily to a bed or floor and stripping their dignity/clothes from them. That is unacceptable and I will not accept it no matter what preceded it. "Not in my name, ever." Cheers.

 

Nobody is asking you to.

It is funny how we react to things. We see this vision on television and all of a sudden we are shocked into condemnation, but we have all been silent for so long on our own neighborhood violence issues. Don't say anything, don't rock the boat, in case of reprisals.

Every Saturday night you will see the same vision on any nightclub strip in Australia. Where is your protest? Every single day a women or child is systematically abused in their own homes, yet we only here a small muttering from the crowd. BUT all hell breaks loose because a teenage criminal is thrown around a cell. Where is the equity here?

Look up from your Pokémon Go people and see that this is just one act of violence among many. Why do we cry louder for this than the eighteen year old king hit from behind?

Bennelong you are right to be sickened by the vision, but do not let it side track you from the over arching endemic issue of violence in our society, protest equally as hard against that as well. Debate the merits of violent gaming, gangsta rap, MMA cage fighting, and online YouTube content. The list is unfortunately endless. All the things I have mentioned have been wholly and solely embraced by our society, and now we have an apathy toward violence that it takes something like the vision from the Territory to offend us.

 

It doesn't have to be a blight on anyone.

This is the problem in a nut shell.

Problem #1. Kids who are constantly in trouble with the law are acting out to get the attention of their parents or parent or guardian or even society if they have no one.

Solution to #1. You don't have the ability to change the parents immediately as no such programs currently exist and they should....so you have to work with what you have and that is the KID. It is possible to change the kid to such a degree that the KID WILL CHANGE THE PARENT!!

Problem #2. The Programs that currently exist are not only worthless as they DO NOT WORK...but as well they are run by people who are NOT QUALIFIED TO ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL of rehabilitating the kids.

Solution to #2. QUICKLY develop a pilot program with former members of the Military running this pilot program in the way I have already described as the one I was running and use the already existing social workers who used to run failed programs and put them to work doing what they do best.....CUTTING THROUGH TH RED TAPE....as we use these people to develop the legal contracts and permissions from the parents and have them go to the parents or guardians homes and have them get all the paperwork signed.

Problem #3. There will be those who have been a part of the failing system who will view the program which I have described as barbaric as they have been for so long a part of the problem they will fight and scream to prevent themselves from being part of the solution.

Solution to #3. Make sure you have documented results of this program which to my knowledge ONLY exists in the United States and bring men such as myself into meetings with existing fat ass administrators and politicians and sell them on the program.

AA

 

No argument here.

Only one problem you have overlooked. It involves people.

Solution 2. Red Tape. Good luck. Pilot programme QUICKLY. Good Luck. Parents. Good Luck.

I don't mean to sound negative. If it was left to you and I and those like us, this situation may get better quicker. However we live in a world where nobody wants to take responsibility. The red tape will always be there, so therefore getting a pilot programme up and running will take at least twelve months. This is because someone devoid of the real world is sitting in a position of power and they need to qualify their existence. Politicians do not want to risk negative press if it were to turn bad, and it easily could. Alpha as you know these two entities are the easy bit. These kids don't get to where they are by chance. They are a product of generational dysfunction, and to gain permission from parents who are constantly under the influence of substances would open a massive can of worms in consideration of the validity of such permission, legally speaking.

Your idea is great in a different world, unfortunately. If we are to conquer these massive social issues we must first start by changing the majorities perception of the issues, only then can we lobby for real change both politically and legally.

Sometimes I get very depressed thinking of the future as it seems to big a mountain to climb. As I always say though, if nobody climbs that mountain we will never know what the view beyond will be.

 

Well see the program exists in the REAL WORLD!!!

It exists here in the United States now all that is needed is to get it to exist in Australia and other places.

The BEST way to cut through the red tape is to give the Parents or Guardians a CHOICE.

They can either be legally forced to bring their kid with them down to a standard Social Worker Program and make it so THEY have to be there and if they don't show up with their kids we make it a fine-able offense plus say loss of license and perhaps community service or even jail time if they don't show up 3 times.

OR....they can sign their kid up to this program.

I started working in this program back in 2000 and I did it till 2008 and I really enjoyed doing it and I got a sense of enormous gratification doing it and because I tend to have to fly out at a moments notice they were very good to me and set up the program from June 19th to September 7th and this allowed multiple overlapping 30 day sessions during the summer.

It really works and every now and then I might be out running or once when I went to the movies I had a kid come up to me and introduce me to his wife and young daughter and he thanked me and told me if it were not for the program that he knew he would probably be dead and that no one gave a S#!# about him and he told me those first 3 days he and the others hated me like no other person they ever had hated before and they were actually talking about killing me until they realized that I wasn't that easy to kill and even if they somehow did it they would still be lost in the middle of nowhere!! LOL!!

It works.

AA

 

I'm not sure I'm 'crying louder,' but I am sticking to the Topic. Sure, there are acts of violence in the Home and in the Street, perpetrated by individuals, but this ~ this is Institutionalised brutality upon kids within a detention centre, and that is a different kettle of fish entirely. That is Government brutality, and it is not happening in my name.

 

How do you as an individual propose to change it?

 

Good question.

Talking about changing something is a lot different from actually DOING IT.

AA

- - - Updated - - -

Good question.

Talking about changing something is a lot different from actually DOING IT.

AA

 

Sorry Alpha I was unaware you were in the US.

Things are a little different here. You lot over there can still give a choice to a criminal to serve time or join the Marines, something I was unaware of until speaking to a gentleman at a conference. I thought it was just in the movies. We could never ever do that here. The political Correct police would tear the system down as a violation of human rights.

We have gone far past the point of no return when it comes to Political Correctness. There was a man that was taking troubled youth off the streets in the Northern Territory and Western Queensland and teaching them how to become Jackaroos on his property, but the powers that be shut him down as he was never able to get legalised parental permission from the parents. That would be the RED tape you speak of.

There was another occasion that was in debate regarding penalising the parent for the crimes of the child. That again was harpooned as a violation of human rights.

It wasn't so long back that the country was in argument regarding the NT intervention order. This was in place to protect the human rights of women and children in drug and alcohol riddled communities in the NT. Seems logical really, doesn't it? Not to sections of Australian society who argued against the order on the basis of human rights.

This is why I make the point, that if we are to rid Australia of this blight, we have to start at the bottom, and that is how people see the issue of violence in our society.

What you have done and are doing is admirable, and we need more people like yourself trying to make a difference. The problem here and in reference to the OP, is that people are blaming the government for this situation, and although they are primarily responsible for this situation, we must also look to ourselves as to why you would treat someone, let alone a child, so violently. Remembering that these guards are members of society in general. Let me ask everyone a question here, would you as a human do what we have seen to a child even if you were instructed by a superior? I know I wouldn't. So why did those in charge feel it appropriate to do so? In my opinion it is our apathy toward violence. We do not see it as we did decades ago.

Alpha I do not have answers at hand, well none that will be easy to implement.

Keep up the good fight.