Who Here Is A True Christian?

Do you follow the laws laid down in the OT, the laws of which Jesus himself said

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

If this is taken "as is" with no interpretation then how many Christians abide by the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) today

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

 

It is not for me to judge myself a true christain. Others will make that judgment based on my actions.

Christianity comes from the heart, not from adherance to vague words written by men 2,000 years ago.

 

Very good answer, an answer I would expect from someone who follows a true faith and not a church dogma.

 

Wrong.

Read the writing of St. Paul. He addresses this very issue.

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Talk about pride and arrogance. . .

 

Instead of just saying something, show your evidence .. oh and BTW I have read the writings of St. Paul, but I would be interested to see what parts you feel refute my original OP.

 

2 Corinthians Chapter 3 is a good place to start.

 

Yep, have read it, still doesn't refute -

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Remember these are the words allegedly spoken by Jesus, the son of god, would you place the words of a mere mortal above those of Jesus, regardless of the esteem that mortal was held in?

 

You all know exactly who the TRUE CHRISTIAN is around here.....this person is VERY OBVIOUS.

Who else knows about JUDGMENT, and when to cast the first stone?

Who else knows about MARRIAGE, and its purpose and sanctity?

Who else knows about SIN, and how to repent and find forgiveness?


Give up???

 

Imagine a very very old bottle - thousands, millions, billions of years old. On the bottle was the seal of Salomo that you broke with your words. Now you see a little whirlwind coming out of the bottle and a very very old famous song is in the air http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwpH_IYg0N8 and a very very old idiot like I appears in the air - hoops - landed on my feet - and says to you: "I am a child of god - what's your problem? No Christian knows why he should learn something about 613 Mizvoths. That's not part of our own religion - what doesn't mean that anything is wrong with the jewish religion. If you like to know wether Jews are better than Christians ask Jews - we Christians are for sure not better than Jews."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulnAKZBy0hU

 

What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: 'So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.' But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, 'If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?' Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—'Let us do evil that good may result'? Their condemnation is just!

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written: 'There is no-one righteous, not even one; there is no-one who understands; there is no-one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no-one who does good, not even one.' 'Their throats are open graves; their tongues practise deceit.' 'The poison of vipers is on their lips.' 'Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.' 'Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know.' 'There is no fear of God before their eyes.' Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no-one will be declared righteous in God's sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the 'law' that requires faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfrm_2gIMYw

 

Also your pride and arrogance? He was right when he said: "Christianity comes from the heart" - as well from the own heart as well 'outside' from the heart of god directly. If our heart sounds in the heart of god and he in us then we are happy. Maybe he forgot the other side - but makes it sense to try to open a door with such words?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wof2YpTjFao

 

Christianity is only a follow on from Judaism, and as far as I am aware the OT & NT both make up the Christian bible, the OT is basically the same as the Tanakh, the main difference between Judaism and Christianity is that the Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah, this is pretty much where the two religions separated .. If Judaism had accepted Jesus as the Messiah there is a very, very good chance that the Christians of today would be of the Judaism faith.

You cannot dispute that Matthew 5: 17-18 is very specific in what it states Jesus said, what other laws would he have been referring to if not those laid down in the OT, certainly not Roman laws.

So the question remains, who here who consider themselves true Christians follow the Christian laws, as laid down in the OT and confirmed as the law by Jesus in Matthew.

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So answer the question, do you as a TRUE Christian follow the laws laid down in the OT and confirmed as the law by Jesus in Matthew 5: 17-18?

 

So the reverse of that question would be anybody that follows those laws is a christian right?

 

Answering a question with a question is without a doubt the worst type of debating there is ... but to indulge, you answer my question I will answer yours.

 

What is the word "Christianity"? What does it mean and wasn't it a vague word written my men 2,000 years ago?

I love how blind people are to think that they can become something based off of the text written by men and then dismiss those words but still claim the knowledge.

Whatever you think a Christian is-is irrelevant. Either you accept the text as the truth and therefore are a Christian or you don't and your not.

If you're going to make up your own religion at the very least you could come up with new name for it.

 

I'm sorry you feel that the socratic method is not useful. Your answer to my question would be my answer to your question. Don't worry, since you've drawn your line in the sand, the logical flow of your answer should need no further follow up.

 

What is your religion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwhPenbogRI

 

Christ ordained the Apostles as bishops and established the Church (what today is known as the Orthodox Church).

If you read the writings of first-century Church fathers (men who were often disciples of the Apostles) you will see a definite structure. You will see that the bishop was considered as the leader of a particular community of Christians, and that his word was followed as the word of God Himself. They believed thay the bread and wine were literally the body and blood of Christ. (The Romans thought they were cannibals because they always overheard the Christians speaking of "eating flesh" and "drinking blood" in such literal terms.)

The Roman Catholic Church is in schism with the true Church (with their ideas of a papacy, purgatory, false ideas about hell, indulgences, etc.), and Protestantism is the bastars child of Catholicism and western legalistic philosophy.

Which is preferable: to humbly submit oneself to the truth, or to go off and create your own made-up "feel-good" ideas?

Which is more arrogant?

 

I follow what God tells me in my heart. The text, written by man is corrupt as all men are. All men have an agenda, be it to control, be it to prohibit, be it to eliminate free will. I find that those who admonish others to follow the script tend to pick and chose what they themselves "obey" from that script, and then make excuses for those they don't wish to obey. I find if one goes around boasting about what a christain he is, he's not. I accept the text as guidance, but not truth. The truth comes from within.

FWIW, I'm constantly amazed at how many people claim to be christain, and then prove otherwise with their selfish and greedy ways, with their hate, and with their intolerance. It's as if they've never heard of Jesus.

 

I'm a Catholic - but that's nearly the same.

Okay - we are different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IomxvOTf-So

 

Who is God? If you call yourself a Christian then clearly the texts have great meaning to you and if they don't, if the only thing (written texts) that told you about Christianity and the Christian God don't have meaning to you then you are not a Christian and the God you "listen" to is no the Christian God.

Are you not of man? Are you not just as fallible as the rest of us and if so how can you possibly tell anyone including yourself that what you know of God is not just as false as the rest of it? Are you free of bias? Whether you accept the written texts or follow your own intuition without literally talking to God are you not putting faith in man one way or the other?

You have just done everything you denounce by your very denouncement of it.

Heard of Jesus? Who would tell them about Jesus....a "real" Christian... and why considering everything you have said would you listen to them?

You cannot know about a specific religion what you were not told. You now cling to that knowledge while trying to distance yourself from all the things that make that knowledge corrupt, invalid, absurd, etc.

You cannot extract God from an invalid text without admitting that-that God to must be invalid.

 

It is only useful when it has purpose, what is the purpose of your question . .to establish a base in order to answer my question or to evade my question.

If you had answered the original question and then put yours forward, the debate moves on .. now we have nothing.

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and this is relevant why?

 

Thou art wise! Salvation comes from actions.

 

"Who Here Is A True Christian?"

That's like walking into a jail and asking "who here is innocent?" Seriously, what Christian would come out and say "sorry everybody, I am actually just a poser and like the prestige of wearing the veneer of Christianity but I don't really follow the dictates of the religion."

 

God is the creator. The rest of your post is garbled... I do not understand, other than it is pretty arrogant of you to claim I do not know God.

Yes. That I why I'm not claiming you are not a christian and why I speak only for myself. Do I ridicule you because you believe the words in the old book are word for word, Gods words?

You seem pretty comfortable telling me this. As if you can look into my heart and know what is there.

who is?

Why are you so sure I do not have a dialogue with God?

I must apologize...this is all gobbeldegook to me.

If you wrote the bible, then I apologize if I've offending you. if you did not, then why are you attacking me? Do you attack me because I do not believe exactly as you do? It is this mindset that has been the cause of immeasurable pain and genocide throughout history.