Why are you letting wolves be slaughtered again?

I hope you will pardon me, but the video portrays market hunting. And the typed thread, points out there are two very different attitudes, between market hunting and abuse of our resources, versus preservation. And the two are very different.

But what you are talking about with British Columbia and Minnesota is a totally different dynamics with the wolves. What you are talking about is Wildlife Management. And there are two ways to handle the problem.

!. There is a thing called predator/ prey relationships where populations of predator and prey fluctuate on their own. In years where deer and Caribou numbers are low, the predator numbers will begin to decline as well. And when numbers of prey begin to increase again, those predator numbers that were low, will again begin to rise once again as well. This natural phenomenon comes from a term called Natural Selection, where the strong survive to take out the week to compensate for the carrying capacity of the land. For most animals of the world, a similar process is taking place in order to perpetuate each species.It's a kind of symbiotic relationship to prevent extinction. An animal must have certain sustainable qualities for that species to persist, and the predator/prey relationship is one way that is achieved. If the prey has increased in numbers as to over browse its home range, along come the predators to keep those browse lines in check. And these episodes of fluctuating populations runs in cycles, just as everything else in nature does. Bottom line, it is a natural process, and we can just let it run its course.

2. The other method, is for man to intervene with very controlled hunts of either deer or predator, depending on population densities. And if the predator numbers are so great as to be impacting the herd dramatically, then I am more for live trapping the wolves versus killing them. There are still large areas of the country that simply do not have wolves. And when those areas are once again populated everywhere, then yes, I can see the logic in having short seasons for predator control, just as we have seasons for deer and Elk. But it must be controlled. Remember what all this is about. The land belongs to us all, and the animals that live there. We all live in a symbiotic relationship to perpetuate our species. We need each other to perpetuate, harvest, and thrive on this land god gave us. And to commercialize it in anyway for the soul benefit of one species is wrong, and everyone knows that. And that is what that video and the opening thread is trying to say.

 

Living in a state that got those unwanted visitors, I guess my answer would be something about live stock butchered...Here is a sheepdog butchered by your furry friends in Montana



These are not cute little doggies but 200 pound predators. A better question might be, 'why do so many want wolves released in other folks locations?'. Perhaps I would be more in favor when I read of them running free in Central Park or Georgetown.

That said, I have no desire to eliminate wolves, just to control them so their numbers and predations remain within rational limits.

 

"Why are you letting wolves be slaughtered again?"

Taxcutter says:
Because the wolves are killing livestock and pets. It's just a matter of time before they kill people.

 

Those unwanted visitors just happened to be native residents of the state of Montana thousands of years before the white settlers decided to kill all the wolves off from that region, so they could claim the rights to live there where certain creatures could not.
We play God, except we haven't a clue what God would say as to who or what has the right to live there.

We alter the animal kingdom by breeding animals for domestication, leaving them vulnerable and weak to the pure and dominant strain of the wild animal families, put them out their in the same environment as their ancient wild cousins leaving them vulnerable to predation, and somehow it's the wild animal that is at fault. Some people just never see things for what they really are, because it's just not convenient. But I would challenge anyone here to wake up and let the real information flow, instead of milking this for your own self interest. If we can't live with the wild creatures on this planet, by making adjustments and giving them the space and the tolerance they deserve, instead of adopting an attitude that everything wild and free is expendable, then after we've exploited all those resources and killed them off, what makes you think after that, we could ever live with ourselves?

 

So did elephants...do we release a few hundred to wander about? Seriously, why to the most loud of folk demanding predators wander about never seem to have them released in their neighborhoods.

 

No, you release the elephants to where they have always lived and leave them alone. It's pretty obvious each animal on this planet was put here to coexist, and for man to coexist with those animals. You're comment about releasing predators close to neighborhoods is pretty silly. Most wild animals like Wolves, Cougars, and Bobcats, desire large amounts of space devoid of neighborhoods. They generally won't tolerate large human populations with noise very well. So your example while noted, can't be taken very seriously.

 

Until 8-10,000 years ago we did have elephants, camels, tigers, etc right here in North America...As the wolves have been gone for most of a century, I fail to see your distinction. Tell you what, how about we have the Feds release a couple of nice cuddly wolves in your neighborhood?

And as to the bit about predators needing areas devoid of neighborhoods, I suggest you read a bit more on the subject...

http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Garden-...rds=the+beast+in+the+garden#reader_0393326349



A great read...and before you pretend this is rare I might note the Police shot two mountain lions within 2 miles of my home in Boise last year.

 

Wolves prefer sheep and calves over deer. Deer run too fast.

 

I'll tell you what. Why don't I close down this conversation with you seeing that your posts are getting more nonsensical by the minute.

And 2 miles is a pretty good distance from Boise. Not exactly in the middle of town. Believe me chief I've read a sack full of books on Cougars. They have an average of a 30 to 60 square mile home ranges. Towns are certainly going to see an occasional Cougar because of that. Just because one may wonder in occasionally does not mean the animal wants to be there. It's just that the town itself just happens to be part of that particular Cougars home range. Bears, Cougars, Wolves, Bobcats, deer, Elk, all have large home ranges. We either decide to live with them or without. Just because a cougar comes within 2 miles of Boise isn't reason enough to kill it. People are idiots.

- - - Updated - - -

 

They certainly sound like they're from a different planet.

 

"Put here"? By what?

ALL life evolves in an ecosystem. All animal species evolve to adapt to given conditions. There's one animal that evolved into the most fearsome predator in the entire history of the world. By your definition, that animal was "put" here.

And now you're claiming that animal should be allowed to do what it was put here to do.

Why the hypocrisy?

 

Yeah, let's have Jerry Brown release a few thousand convicted criminals in the judge's neighborhood, and see how long that particular Catch and Release program lasts.

 

What a laugh the one thing you learn from paleontolgy is that mother nature is a mean old beotch that periodically tries to kill off all the vermin crawling about her surface. Sometimes sheenlists outside force like comets and asteroids sometimes she does't. Hell based on studies of mytochondrial DNA it appears that she's come fairly close to taking us out on more than one occassion. 90% of the species that ahve gone extinct on this planet did so before human beings were around to hunt them. Nature is in a constant cycle of boom and bust where animal populations are concerned.

 

I think they are there to maintain the balance of nature,
otherwise the moose and elks will start invading our gardens.
I think if there is an imbalance we have to interfere to correct it,
and the population of the prey and the predator is considered.

 

Ayuh,.... Have you ever been outside yer mom's apartment,..??

You Really have No clue how the Wild World works,....

How's that Cougar protection program workin' for California,..??
Pretty Good, if ya don't mind a few People bein' Killed every year,....

 

Yes, Nature is cruel and violent by our standards of "harmony", but none-the-less it is "harmony". Since life still exists here I'd say it is working.

 

Even after humans. Glad you can agree.

 

I said 2 miles from my home I Boise, not 2 miles from Boise...One lion was shot in a parking lot at a hospital DOWNTOWN...the other was shot on Boise State University DOWNTOWN...(perhaps 1000 yards from the Idaho State House)

Here is a bit about one that was not caught but lingered for weeks

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/10/31/2330634/has-anyone-seen-the-boise-cougar.html

And another one maybe half a mile from my house

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/11/11/2342979/mountain-lion-sighting-reported.html

Read the book I linked to. It is a great read that ends with one of the poor harmless (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) cats eating a jogger in Boulder.

 

Is there some documentation that proves that? It seems to me the Wolf has had ample time to kill people. I didn't know people being killed by wolves was on some kind of time table. Maybe someone can explain this phenomenon.

 

Wolves have eaten people from time immemorial.

Every civilization has chronicalled that.

 

If you had read my last post you would realize those links are not connected to the reality of the animal itself. It's the circumstance of his home range that accidentally puts the animal there. The animal is still that same secretive animal. It's just that the Cougar has no control over establishing his home range. When an overlapping home range collides with a subdivision or small town, the Cougar just happened to be there because of that reason. It is an instinct that the animal does this. It's the same with bird migration. The Cougar is still the same animal. Just because there is a small town out in the middle of the animals home range, they will from time to time cross into these areas. Home ranges are a result of centuries of adaptations to changes in the environment and population fluctuations. The Cougar being the secret animal that he is, not only is intolerant to man, they are also intolerant to their own species. That's why there are changes in distribution ranges of some species through dispersal. The need to map out a territory and home range free of the competition of its own species. That is why sometimes these animals are seen around towns. It has nothing to do with their tolerance for man. These articles you post, are a direct example of what I have been saying.

 

Like I said. Someone hopefully will come along with some documented proof. And we have yet to figure out that time table you were talking about.