Why do abortionists feel like sexual intercourse is a fundamental right?

Okay, so you are a woman. I had no idea.

 

Well, since "he" was talking about using a condom plus withdrawal on another thread - perhaps the "tubes" he is talking about are the vas deferentia

 

Maxi I can mount an argument for the defence of abortion. It won't be elegant but I can do it. Not right now though, I just finished a 12 hour working day, I'm knackered and my brain hurts.

 

Been there done that!! So if you will allow me - move over and I will start with

How are you going to stop abortion? Legislation does not work - it does not even begin to work, and I am not talking here about just driving it underground I mean there is no way you can frame the wording that will not either cause unnecessary maternal deaths or conversely not be effective at all

I know see where I live abortion is illegal and guess what? Our abortion rates are not far off of yours.

Secondly - where do you stop? I mean we can frame some pretty strict abortion laws

Take this one

Now google "Abortifacient" and you will find a lot of substances known or believed to cause abortion including the herbs Parsley and Pennyroyal as well as coffee and Paw Paw. If the law WAS enforced correctly you would not be able to feed your girlfriend the decoration off the top of your Prawn cocktail for fear of spending 14 years in jail

How about the next bit of the law

Hmmmm - this is a beauty because if a woman/young girl is desperate enough to use a coat hanger then she ends up in jail - nice one - way to punish someone twice!!

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/c/crimincode.pdf

Mind you - if you only sell her the RU486 you only get 3 years

The joke? These acts are stuck between "incest" and "indecent exposure"
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/c/crimincode.pdf

 

Jeez Bower, as we used to say long ago in my detective coppering days, "I'd go to court with you"

 

hmmm .. "life liberty and persuit of happiness"

Sex is included in the "persuit of happiness" part methinks.

Personal responsibility is a separate issue however, one way to take responsibility for ones actions (sex resulting in pregnancy) is to have an abortion.

If you want to not "stick it in" that is your perogative .. no one is forcing you. If others want to do something different .. that is their perogative and right. (At least in the USA)

 

Don't get me started on this! Don't know if you followed the Cairns case of Tegan Leech and her boyfriend- they were charged with procuring an abortion and were subsequently acquitted in what must have been the most surprising verdict of all time
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-relieved-after-acquittal-20101014-16kuy.html
See what happened was they could not prove the drug as "noxious to her health" and they would have had no proof that she was actually pregnant at the time she took the pills

 

Which right takes precedent? The right of the woman to unending hedonistic sexual pleasure with sexual partners, or the right of the unborn baby to the rest of his life ?

Let's remember that even though we may never agree about what a woman's rights actually are, a human being's right to live is indisputable.

 

Bower - back in the day my mates (and me too) would fulminate against juries if they lost a case. But later on when I developed some sort of perspective I found it a bit weird that if a colleague won a case then juries were magically better than the finest bottled beer.

I like juries (even if they booted one or two of my cases).

I particularly like that jury. I love juries that say, "this crap should never have got to this point".

The famous jurist Blackstone talked about the pious perjury of the jury (relative to a particular case in which he jury ignored evidence in order to prevent a young woman being hanged) and approved. This was a jury of which Blackstone would be rightly proud.

Yes I remember the case well.

Juries are good for our democracy.

 

Don't be so transparently obvious.

Here's a problem for you Anders - no human being has an indisputable right to live.

And you might try and suggest otherwise but a woman's rights are actually the same as a bloke's.

 

Well, since the woman has a birth certificate (something even your President has lola) and the potential maybe foetus does not then it is Nolo Contendere

 

Yes - rather proud of my fellow Queenslanders who did what the government would not - overturn a bloody ancient law that has been on the books since before women got the vote!

Note too that like the questions about medical dilemmas and abortion the pro-lifers will not touch the legality question with a barge pole

 

especially women who murder their unborn babies

 

I'll take that as a "fail concession".

Nice talking to you, come back when you're ready to behave like an adult.

 

As I was thinking about this thread it occured to me another reason I find it funny. The OP is against abortion, and against irresponsible sex.

But the thing is- accidents happen. So assuming that:
a) Any person does choose to have sex
b) That person is being responsible but she or his partner do get pregnant anyway-

Is the male prepared to either a) be a responsible parent- financially and personally or b) support the woman's right to decide what to do her pregnancy?

I wasn't always prepared to be a parent when I was sexually active when I was young- I was lucky enough that there were no unwanted pregnancies. But anyone having sex should be emotionally mature enough to make an adult decision if an unexpected pregnancy does occur.

 

The only way your trite and silly analogy works is if pro choicers advocated killing babies after birth. Obviously they do not. A slave can think, feel, and survive perfectly well on its own separate from the owner. A zygote cannot do any of these.

 

Whats the difference in before and after birth other than the location. There is no logical reason for abortion it is the killing of a person, a person in the early stages of development. A 1 year old is in the early stages of develpment should we kill them to?, of course not. No one who supports the right to abortion can give a valid reason for advocating abortion. The only reason those who support the right to abortion is because this life is at an early stage, which is not a rational argument. A 2 month old baby after their birth cannot survive perfectly well on their own either.

 

Making a decision on whether or not to kill an innocent human life is not being mature, it is immature to even contemplate the killing of innocent human life. I do agree though there should be services provided to help pregnant women who are in difficult situations.

 

This post implies that ALL women who choose abortion have "unending hedonistic sexual pleasure with (multiple) sexual partners." (sarcasm alert***) Of course government should act decisively and quickly to stop women from enjoying sexual pleasure and to make sure those who do are sufficiently punished. (end sarcasm)

 

Well, that is a lot of women then - and not just those who attend abortion clinics but those who knowingly or unknowingly prevent implantation or eat the wrong food at the wrong time to cause early abortion/miscarriage or even those so emotionally fraught that they "self abort" as their bodies reject the embryo

 

Yes!! Let us force all women into chastity belts so we can control ALL reproductive choices - that way we can dictate when and how often they should have sex

That will work! (NOT!)

 

Until you yourself are in the situation (and with a name like Sean I doubt you will be) then I doubt you will ever truly understand how difficult the decision to abort can be for some women.

How about the woman who THOUGHT she was in a stable relationship - finds herself pregnant only to have her partner leave her? I cannot tell you the number of women I know who have gone through that and also found that the bank account was cleaned out/overdrawn. She has a choice then - where are your supports for HER.

How about a woman with a WANTED pregnancy who finds she has cancer or pulmonary hypertension or any one of a myriad of problems - you are going to call them murderers too?

 

Well this is the crux of the argument isn't it? You believe a 1 day old embryo is a human being- and I don't.

You can't imagine any valid reason for an abortion- while I can. You would have the state tell the woman that she has no choice in the matter, but that she is required to bring the fetus growing within her to term regardless of whether it was the result of her being raped by her father or by a criminal who invaded her home.

I can think of reasons I would consider valid- you can't.

The difference is that I think the woman should make her own mind up about what is valid- not you- or me.

 

That means pedophiles have a right to have sex with little kids.

 

No, I'd have my man-tubes tied.