Why do pro EU people find the UK's independence so offensive?

Why?

How does it affect you or the EU if the UK stepped outside the EU's laws on human rights? On the working week?

Why do you want the UK to join in with your games? Why does everyone need the same rules and laws? How does this make your life better?

I don't understand.

 

Have you not yet noticed the intolerance they have for those who dare to disagree?

 

Currently, five states have such opt-outs:

Denmark (four opt-outs),
Ireland (two opt-outs),
Poland (one opt-out)
Sweden (one opt-out, but only de facto)
United Kingdom (four opt-outs)
The Czech Republic will gain their first opt-out under the next treaty to be ratified (likely an accession treaty).

Schengen Agreement – Ireland and United Kingdom
Economic and Monetary Union - United Kingdom and Sweden
Edinburgh Agreement – Denmark
Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union – Poland and the United Kingdom
Area of freedom, security and justice – Ireland and the United Kingdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union

How do these affect you? You need to show your passport when you enter the ISLAND! You need to go to a bank machine when you arrive and you'll not have all EU human rights protections... The UK is hardly the ME on human rights.

Why the hell do people get so upset about this? Is it simply that you want the prestige of having the UK as a full member?

Where's your anger about Ireland, Sweden, Denmark and Poland? Is it because these countries and possibly yours don't have that much power in the EU?

 

Because you don't make up your mind and hinder about 20 other countries dead in their tracks in what would be a straightforward plan. This has been going on for years and years and Cameron now says 2015-2018. By that time he will probably forget what his name is altogether. So at the next elections elect whatever you know best, elect UKIP but make your move.

 

Of course the European Union won't insist forever. A break-up with the UK ultimately will be quite bad but nevertheless better than waiting for all the EU to get rusty. However... problem is not as much the UK power within or outside the EU as is in stimulating euroskepticism; those Ireland, Sweden, Denmark are so cocky only because you are and at the same time you seem to be unable to make up your own mind. Ok with that, from what I see the EU has been patient so far and careful with your excessive delicacy. But while you are unable to make up your mind and are still a member, you have lots of big voices loud across the world that fuel anti-europeanism. WTF is this?

 

What is the plan? There has not been an EU plan stated to my knowledge.

What is the plan?

 

Listen to yourself, these countries are "cocky"? Cocky? What becasue they don't bend over each time the EU bureaucracy says so?

Cocky? I'd say that you're being pretty cocky in your expectations of member states.

 

Further integration. That is the plan and has always been as far as I could see.

If you haven't watched the State of the Union Address 2012 from beginning to end then do it. To me the plan outlined in this speech is as well stated and as focused as it can get:

[video=youtube;Ab3Hhk4I1mc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=Ab3Hhk4I1mc[/video]

IF you are going to say that you have watched it, ALL OF IT, then please give me some proof.

 

They are cocky when they don't make up their mind.

 

Leffe, I think you are cocky believing in the idea that you can not be called cocky. Why not?

 

No wonder that a growing list of member states are questioning this. I'd say your federal dream is about to implode.

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They have... not to buy the idealist notioin of one size fits all.

 

I do not see why a unified EU government would be any better at trying to solve problems than separate individual states.
Perhaps ardent EU supporters just believe that more government is always better?

 

It doesn't need to... It doesn't need to try. It comes naturally when the brains of all the continent are united into shared institutions and work together, when all the competence of a continent like Europe is combined. WTF people remember it's Europe that we're talking about here. Let's unite and we will be looking down at USA, China, Russia, everything.

More govt? What the pro-Europeans are making all this stir about is something else than more govt. More govt indeed is not necessarily better. But more brains in the same boat are always better. Combined govt is not the same as more govt. It's about re-deploying what we already have. Plenty of governing already exists in the EU... too much of it! That's where most problems come from.

 

We like to eat, have union rights and not be enslaved by flabby public relations idiots, and at the moment only the EU gives us any security, particularly if we belong to the bullied UK nations.

 

The Uks independence does not offend me, if the UK opts to be independent of the EU that is fine I have no problem with it.

The UK decided to sign the European convention on Human Rights all by itself the Human rights act was a monstrosity of the UK's own making and the flaws were well highlighted by the legal profession in the UK before it was passed.

You want the common market you have to obey the rules. Its as simple as that. Even if you are not a full member and just part of the EEA their are common rules that are required for access you are either prepared to go along with that or you aren't.

 

I don't see why that would be . And a list like that... If it was to get even close to 50% in the list of member states it would have happened in the last 20 - 30 years don't you think? The world economy has had many difficult moments before.

Haha you have showed your real face now. But somewhere deep within you your reasoning tells you all this is very sane & well inspired and that deeply disturbs you.

How about all trying to fit one size for the sake of each other? There are such things as solidarity and a bit of spirit of sacrifice. Nothing is impossible for nobody unless you want it to be for you specifically. You can always find justifications to more or less consciously convince yourself that people are too different anyway for this to work. But deep within you you know it's a good idea and it appeals to you in full contradiction with the nationalist surface.

 

Why?//////

 

...

Last year, I've grown more conservative. I can pretty much say that I feel comfortable being a conservative.

On the EU, I have evolved as well.

See above post; please.

Vlad writes: "How about all trying to fit one size for the sake of each other? There are such things as solidarity and a bit of spirit of sacrifice."

I disagree. Completely.

Indeed, there are such things as solidarity. And a spirit of sacrifice -- I most certainly have.

But what is so wrong with expecting people, or in this case: countries, to fix their own problems. I, as a private individual, don't expect other people to solve my problems. I welcome help, I don't expect it. And I would be the first to offer help to an other person in need. Let me use a boutade:"we will stand on principle, or we will not stand at all".

I do not believe, or at least: not anymore, in solidarity for the sake of solidarity. Hence, I don't believe in "integration, for the sake of integration".

What must be taken into considiration is overall effeciency. Some stuff needs to be taken care of locally and and some things are better addressed on a (supra-)national, or yes, even regional, level.

Why should billions of euros flow to Greece -- the only reason we are doing so, is, because if we don't, we get screwed massively ourselves.

That is not an act of solidarity, it is an act of neccessity born out of selfishness.

Hence, I agree with some of Cameron observations: democratic accountability is a huge problem as far as EU-matters is concerned.

And I'm not a fan of those silly referenda either, an entire country (Ireland) can take half a billion of European citizens hostage.

...

 

Leffe,... if one want to play a game, (s)he needs to obey the rules of the game. Or everbody gets cross.

 

Like in USA each state will have some of its own unique laws. It's that simple. Some will be unique to one member state, just like in USA. Peace for all. Other than that, a politically united Europe will not work without some compromises. But I'm sure most are ready for these compromises because the current problems of Europe are evolving into something tenfold worse than the initial discomforts of federal accommodation.

 

I would like to add to what I said in reply to janpor...

Every single country has done all that is capable of to solve its problems on its own. The Greeks have. They have done all they are capable of. But they are not capable of accepting that there is something wrong with tax evasion. Outside help is needed there. The list can go on.

The alternative is to kick them out of the EU altogether or give them bailouts forever. Is that what you want janpor?

 

Vlad,;;;

I'm not some dumb f*ck. So; please... don't go "hocus pocus" on me. What in the world does "because the current problems of Europe are evolving into something tenfold worse than the initial discomforts of federal accommodation" even mean? What are you actually saying? Do you even know? Or are you just one of those "integration-for-the-sake-of-integration-guys". In the past, I was one too. Never to late to confront yourself with your own intellectual flaws...

 

In what way?

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So a common set of all laws is what you suggest? Cultural differences mean nothing?

 

Which is morally wrong when accepting our money to fix their problems.

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Vlad rarely goes past rhetoric, if ever.

 

Reply to my question about Greece first.