Simple... "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."----James Madison
To be frank "the left" and I use that term very loosely does the same thing with gun control and is succeeding at about the same rate as the right against abortion. Looking at the big picture there is hypocrisy on both sides, but to your point, indeed the quote fits perfectly.
Well, if we get into the "abortion=guns" debate, an obvious flaw in the analogy occurs. It is extremely rare that EITHER you see a "private dealer" in abortion left unrestricted by government AND you see gun shops shut down by government fiat, as we see the attempt to shut down clinics in Texas and North Carolina. It is MUCH easier to get a gun in this country than an abortion.
No, that is not what I wish to do, nor do I believe the equation to be valid. However the approach and tactics used by the respective sides ARE eerily similar as are the type of results, namely restrictions and infringements that make getting what one has a right to harder and harder.
But again....it is MUCH easier in this country to get a gun...even in "liberal" states. Than it is to get an abortion. So the analogy fails.
That is because the abortion rights movement has always been on the defensive since Roe v Wade and the 1973 victory has made many activists/groups feel a sense of invulnerability since it has become a "right." Those who are pro-choice need to get on the offensive and make abortion a far more defined right in the USA. We can't rely on Roe v Wade alone.
I have to disagree with that, well to some extent. I know that NY, NJ, CONN, with their laws make you jump through hoops to get one, but I digress. My only reason to mention this angle was the tactics used by the respective sides. Those tactics alone do not make the issues similar.
Talk tactics....when was the last time the Brady Campaign protested in front of a gun shop? When was the last time some "anti-gun" nut blew up a gun shop or killed a gun shop owner? - - - Updated - - - Fortunately a lot of our work is done by the "pro-lifers"....many of whom are clearly radicalized. From our local types who want "ultrasounds at airports to prevent women from escaping and 'killing their babies'"......to guys like Eric Rudolph and Scott Ritter.
I wonder why you pro-aborts don't fight to take away all laws that restrict womens rights...late term abortion. Why don't you? - - - Updated - - - It is a defined right....abortion is legal. You can't control however the way society looks at it. And as TIME magazine reported this past January....the pro-life side is winning and that has your side scared.
Winning what? It has been 40 years since Roe v Wade, abortion is currently the most common surgical procedure in the USA, America has one of the higher rates of abortion amongst the developed world and yet we also have the most politically active pro-"life" movement. Meanwhile, abortion is hardly that much of a controversy in the developed world. You haven't realized this yet, but your movement is slowly becoming more irrelevant throughout the world.
She keeps claiming this....but has yet to show polling that shows that a majority of Americans want abortion made illegal or Roe overturned. Sure, people don't "like" abortion...but she CANNOT provide a poll showing majority support for her legality stance.
I wouldn't call it 'fight' -- more like whine. Its what people without a clue do to make themselves feel important. Might as well be whistling into the wind for all the good it does. :banghead:
My point is true, isn't it, SMW? You guys start with 22 weeks....then you'll come back again later with 18 weeks, right? Then 15....then 10....then 5. Then you'll say "Well, hell, wur at 5 weeks....why not just make the whole dang thang illegal?" You REALLY expect us to believe your fellers down in Austin are "finished" and not going to go even further...if they can get a way with it?
Another good point....FORTY YEARS...and the "pro-lifers" can't get abortion illegal again, could they?
Pro-"lifers" cannot directly attack Roe v Wade. Human Life Amendment? Gone. Personhood Amendment? Rejected. Sanctity of Life Act? Negative. So the pro-"life" movement has been reduced to just making abortion harder to get and harder to perform. By doing this, the pro-"life" movement seeks to increase the amount of late term abortions which have three desired effects A) they are easier to restrict, B) spark public outcry and, C) to serve as propaganda against Roe v Wade. Much like we learned from the stem cell issue back in 2001, it is difficult to find objection to the destruction of early term fetuses and embryos.
Same with 'you guys' isnt it. We start with 12 weeks, then 22, then 26.... next thing you know, libs are pushing for kids up to school age to be done in if they get on mommy's nerves. Its a slippery slope. Time to nip it in the bud.
You can't deny my point...or Madison's, can you? Your guys don't in Austin aren't going to stop at 22 weeks...are they?
This is all pro-"life" fantasy. Nothing would make you happier IF the abortion rights community collectively pushed to make abortion happen later and later during the pregnancy. Realistically, pro-choicers are the ones desiring abortion to be done much earlier as opposed to latter since they see the fetus more deserving of protection as the pregnancy progresses. On the other hand, pro-"lifers" can't see any difference between a human zygote and a born child. They aren't terribly bothered if more late term abortions happen. If anything, late-term abortions help your cause. Not ours.
They can't go "big"....USSC is majority appointed by "pro-life" Republicans, yet Roberts, Kennedy, Scalia, Thomas, and Alito WILL NOT overturn Roe. You're right the other "frontal assaults" have been abandoned (Human Life Amendment, Personhood Amendment, etc.) Now, they try "piece-meal"...restricting or using "clinic hygiene"....because they know an open "frontal assault" not only will fail...but rebound against them. But all of it proves one thing....they have to LIE about their agenda to try to sneak it past people. - - - Updated - - - Imagine if they had to fight against abortion where the only pictures they could find to put on their signs were 64 cells zygotes?
We don't have to imagine it because it already has happen about 12 years ago with the stem cell research issue. The public were behind stem cell research and even a large segment of self-identified pro-"lifers" were for it...even though stem cell research involves destroying a human embryo. But the pro-"life" lobbying groups wouldn't have it; they've already paid millions upon millions to president Bush Jr's campaign and they weren't going to settle with just the usual anti-abortion lip service the GOP gives them. So despite the overhwhelming support for federally funded stem cell research, the radical pro-"lifers" managed to get it their way through political bribery. Didn't matter that these human embryos were going to be destroyed anyways or that noteable pro-"life" republicans supported it, the radical pro-"lifers" didn't want anything positive to come from stem cell research and therefore retard stem cell research for many years...even if it held the promise of saving millions of people's lives. Just goes to show you how pro-"life" these people are. Allow millions of born Americans to suffer and die at the expense of saving a cluster of human cells destined for the garbage.
Prolly has sumptin' ta do with that pesky Second Amendment thing. I support abortion rights and deplore the constant Republican attempts to restrict women's rights to their own bodies, but I also support gun rights.
I don't get involved in gun rights, I find it hard to understand the Americans fascination with guns but that is probably because I have grown up in a country where they are regulated quite strictly.
Whereas I grew up in a country which tossed out our King and fought off the Redcoats not once, but twice.
