Some pertinent findings. http://content.thirdway.org/publica...nforcement_Gap_-_Federal_Gun_Laws_Ignored.pdf THE ENFORCEMENT GAP:Federal Gun Laws Ignored A Study of Federal Gun Prosecutions from FY2000–FY2002 by Americans for Gun Safety Foundation May 2003 Finding #1 – Overall prosecutions for violations of federal gun laws do not in any way reflect the number of federal gun crimes committed. • Between FY2000 and FY2002, federal prosecutors filed 25,002 firearms cases, while more than one million federal gun crimes were committed in America. • Of the twenty-two major gun statutes, 85% of federal prosecutions involved two specific laws: using a firearm in the commission of a federal crime of violence or drug trafficking and catching felons in possession of a firearm. • While the number of federal prosecutions has increased from 7,124 cases in FY2000 to 9,803 inFY2002, 94% of the increase came from the same two statutes referenced above. • Federal prosecutions vary widely by state, with some states – including most of the leading crime gun exporting states – virtually absent in the war on illegal guns. Finding #2 – Despite a massive black market in crime guns, the five major federal laws designed to combat gun trafficking are being virtually ignored. • Though more than 300,000 gun crimes showed telltale signs of gun trafficking, the five statutes designed to prohibit gun trafficking cases were almost never used – a total of just 515 cases during fiscal years2000 to 2002 (constituting only 2% of all federal firearm prosecutions). • One-fifth of all federal gun trafficking cases were brought in New York State. • Among states that are known as gun trafficking sources, there was very little prosecution activity – Ohio (10 cases), Indiana (5), Mississippi (3), Texas (1, Florida (24), Georgia (26), and California (26). • The number of trafficking cases has increased from 141 in 2000 to 177 in 2001 and to 197 in 2002. Finding #5 – There is one federal prosecution for every 1,000 stolen firearms. • Between 2000 and 2002, approximately 420,000 firearms were reported stolen to police and recorded on a national list that includes the make, model and serial number of the gun. • During that same period, federal prosecutors brought only 524 charges under the five federal statutes that deal with stealing a gun or possessing, selling or transferring a stolen firearm. • Federal prosecutors in the five states with the highest per capita firearm theft rates filed only 47 cases during those three years – Alaska (2), Alabama (23), Arkansas (5), Mississippi (11), and New Mexico (6). • The number of stolen gun cases increased from 148 in 2000 to 174 in 2001 and 202 in 2002. Finding #6 – Individuals who lie on the criminal background check form are rarely punished. • From 2000 to 2002, roughly 450,000 prospective gun buyers were rejected from purchasing a firearm after signing the ATF form certifying that they had no record that would deny them a gun. • In that same period, federal prosecutors brought only 1,594 cases against those 450,000 individuals. This means that for every 1,000 offenses, prosecutors filed less than four cases. • In FY2002, 99.6% of potential cases of lying on the background check form went unenforced, compared to 99.7% in FY2000. • The number of cases against those who lied on the background check form increased from 501 in 2000to 515 in 2001 and 578 in 2002. Finding #7 – Although police routinely recover crime guns with obliterated serial numbers, federal prosecutions are rare. • In 2000 alone, police in just seven cities recovered more than 2,500 guns with obliterated serial number,yet between FY2000 and FY2002, federal prosecutors throughout the nation filed only 259 cases against individuals in possession of a gun with an obliterated serial number. • Federal prosecutors in 17 states brought two or fewer prosecutions for possessing a firearm with an obliterated serial number during that period. • The number of obliterated serial number cases increased from 76 in 2000 to 85 in 2001 and 98 in 2002. If such holds true presently, and there is little reason to believe otherwise, that twenty three percent increase in federal level prosecutions for firearm-related offenses amounts to next to nothing on a statistical level. The article points out there were nearly ten thousand annual prosecutions for firearm-related offenses under the presidency of George Bush senior. Compared to approximately one quarter of that number as demonstrated by the article cited on the part of yourself. All serving to prove what was stated previously. Even at the federal level, firearm-related restrictions are not actually enforced. Not to any meaningful degree at least. Prosecutions occur only under extraordinarily rare circumstances, rather than in general.
Most injuries to the scalp do bleed a lot looking way worse than they might actually be. One time I was second out at an accident where a passenger wasn't wearing a seat belt, he was launched partally through the windshield, he wasn't cut all that badly but there was blood dripping off the hood like he was going to bleed to death, the really effed part was he was pulling at his face trying to get a hold of a shard of glass that was protruding through his right eyelid, we ended up cuffing him and hauled him off to the BGH ER. A few years before that back I pulled a guy out of a wrecked car to get him out as it was on fire, I cut the seat belt and pulled him out the drivers side door, at the moment I didn't realize he was already dead, his head tipped toward the ground and about a pint of blood poured out of his ear, down the leg of my pants and a lot of it collected in my shoe. Talk about gross, the FD took off my shoe then they cut the leg of my pants off and soaked me down with water and then alcohol, my shoe, pant leg and sock went into a hazmat bag and where disposed of. I looked very odd walking around the scene with one leg of my pants cut off just above the knee, wearing one shoe and a red foam prisoner bootie. The real screwed up part was I had to be HIV tested every six months for two years, before it was decided I had not been infected. And I had to buy new shoes too.
Unless you as the greatest marksman ever was confronted by multiple threats. A winning tactic among native Americans in the years of front stuffers was to draw fire, and attack during the reload.
Depends, your and my reality, or Hollywood? Remember Lone Wolf MaQuade? [video][\video] I saw the movie but never mastered the ability. I didn’t count the rounds, how many you think...more than the mag held?
I learned to use the recoil of a semi auto back in the mid 70’s with an M1 carbine, shooting from the shoulder; no device needed. I can do it on command, even with a semi auto shot gun (hard not to be sore later). There is a vid of Jerry facing off against a shooter using a bump stock, he’s as fast, but far more accurate. I found the method entertaining, but costly and pretty much useless for anything serious. Even if ARs are banned, they will still be out there considering the numbers. But, considering they constitute a fraction of the overall number of rifles out there and how tiny the number of people are killed by rifles in crime annually, there will be a nil impact on crime. Long forgotten is the plan defined by Pete Shields in to leverage a ban on assault weapons as a step in the strategy to achieve control over all guns, particularly hand guns. That plan was based on the decades of Britain implementing an incremental plan to make guns illegal that was implemented incrementally over 75 years, a plan I have posted many times. Shields laid out his strategy ... Source:https://reason.com/2013/07/18/why-second-amendment-supporters-are-righ/ It’s a plan that clearly was designed around the firearms ignorance of the public. Make no mistake... the plan is continually being pushed along by the Left’s followers who may or may not know it’s original authors.
Who's trying to kill anyone? The goal is to stop the attack. Two in the chest and one in the head stops most attacks. Sometimes you have to repeat. It's never about killing; it's always about stopping. But, once the attacker is dead the attack always stops. If you know a more sure way to stop an attack, I'd like to hear it.
Years ago, my house was burgled and many of my guns stolen. Luckily for me, one of the idiots who broke in took one of the guns to school a few days later and was arrested trying to sell the gun in the parking lot. The kid admitted to the burglary and gave up the names of the two who were with him. They had already traded all the other guns to a fence in Tulsa - a felon with several prison sentences already served. The Tulsa PD was able to get all my guns from that guy and returned them to me - well, all except one that I never got back. So, three high-school kids, all within a couple months of being 18 but still minors, and one 32-year-old, convicted felon, involved. Not a single one of them was ever prosecuted for stealing, selling, or receiving my guns.
You realize, don't you, that bullets spraying around, even if not accurately aimed, can hit intended targets as well as children or others unintended, right? https://www.wibw.com/content/news/Boy-5-dies-after-hit-by-stray-bullet-while-playing-on-Houston-balcony-with-family-569433401.html
As I have posted a few times, when I was a teen, I witnessed a fellow with a rod of some running to attacking a para in a riot. The para emptied his BHP at near point blank into the fellow who still managed to reach the Para and beat him down, before collapsing. I have read accounts of soldiers in war, mortally wounded that still managed amazing feats before dying.there are lots of stories of such feats. Read stories of some of the MOH recipients, or US forces in the Philippines in the Spanish War fight against the Moros, one of the reputed reasons the Military adopted the 1911 .45. https://www.americanheritage.com/gun-army-cant-kill Drugs and adrenaline can have amazing effects, including on someone defending themselves from a life and death situation where it can detrimentally impact the ability to shoot accurately... so you might not get that heart/headshot. A number of years ago I recall seeing dashboard cam footage of a sheriff deputy making a traffic stop where a driver emerged from his car shooting at the deputy and the deputy returning fire with both emptying their guns and nighter being hit. They were within the length of a car. A real gun fight is not like punching holes in paper that doesn’t shoot back.
As you learned the hard way, keyboard bravado go's right out the window when you are being shot at, a person being shot at spends more time trying to stay alive than aiming, the combination of anger and fear is not conducive to excellent marksmanship, regardless of the number of bullseye shots one has under his belt.
Anyone who has worked in law enforcement knows that, which is why I believe the other posters claim about having been involved in law enforcement merely consist of watching re-runs of Dragnet, like many who make such a claim they trip themselves up and expose the real truth once they begin typing more falsehoods in an attempt to bolster the already posted falsehoods.
I've posted this a few times already but those who have an agenda don't seem to get the message. All the shots in this video and no one was hit. Hitting a target when you're fighting for your life is much harder than hitting paper. I'm a vet but not a combat vet. I'm sure there are enough combat veterans on the site that could back this up.
Yep, deception is often not sustainable over time. Funny, there are a few bits of wisdom I learned from my ma; one in conversation recently with 94 year old mother I shared with her reviving her fading memory, of the exact time & place she shared a bit of wisdom (obvious to some) which I credited to her as being one of the indelible cornerstones of my character in my formative years when at about age 4 after catching me in a lie with a bit of clever interrogation (at least to me at the time) she told me if you lie you have to remember that lie for the rest of your life and tell many more to maintain the deception. Few people can sustain deception over time amid the many posts and conversations in a forum like this. Lots people monitoring with knowledge and memory of your posts, anyone of which can expose inconsistencies at any point. Me, I was once a space traveler that has been to mars and back. Lol
Very similar to the one I mentioned I have memory of. Interesting, when viewing that one, you get access to the one in The police pursuit in Ohio. Watch it, then check the comments. Go from 0-100 measured by your adrenaline level and it will surprise with what it does to your finely honed abilities. I am often amused when I hear, but, “why didn’t they just shoot for the leg?” Then too, when engaging in discussions of the what number of rounds or level of fire power should be sufficient, of often think of the iconic 1986 Miami FBI shootout. That incident changed a lot of thinking at the FBI.
Stories like these are why no one can define the right number of bullets to allow or that might be needed. For each individual, they will have to decide the right number for them - based on their own perceptions of their risk, of their ability to manage and respond, and even on their willingness and ability to train or to fund large magazines. Some people choose large capacity semi-automatic handguns, some choose 1911s or single-stack 9mm semi-autos; some choose revolvers. Other people choose AR-15 rifles or pistols and some choose shotguns, with nearly as wide set of options for capacity for shotguns as for semi-auto pistols. The point is, there are potential scenarios where any of those options are exactly the right or best option. There are also scenarios where any of those would not be the right option so, no matter what option a person chooses, they may be exactly right, or so completely wrong that they're dead, or anywhere in between, depending on what violent scenario comes their way. In the end, each person must make their own best guess and live (or die) with their choice. No one else has the right to tell anyone which choice is best or valid, or acceptable, or unacceptable, for them.
That was a combination of poor training, a lack of firepower and not having enough ammo. Out in West Miami was a rockpit, an area where people dumped junk, it was also where a lot of people did plinking and odd but fun form of target shooting we called shooting the chit, that is to shoot the crap out of what had been dumped, washers, dryers junk cars TV's, you name it, we shot it. Well the two bank robbers Matix and Platt needing firepower went out there twice and in the process murdered one of the guys we shot with stealing from him a Ruger Mini-14 and some cars, now the FBI having camera footage from one of the robberies knew these guys had that Mini-14. None the less the stakeout team was only armed with a couple of shotguns and handguns, some of them semi-auto's, but mostly 6 round revolvers, one of the agents un-holstered his handgun and put it under his leg, he lost that gun during a collision while trying to box in the bank robbers, not too smart. There has been a lot of arm chair speculation of how they could have one it better, but a consensus is they should have stayed loose and waited until an FBI SWAT team could be brought into play (if they had one at the time) or have either DEA or BATF do a felony vehicle intercept for them, keep in mind this was back in the Dade County Cocaine Coyboys days, (think street fighting with MAC-10's and suppressed MAC-11's, bodies found with zipper wounds and a lot of innocents caught in the crossfire) and because of that known to be carried weaponry, both the DEA and the BATF had heavily armed and armored teams ready to roll as needed, to handle such tasks. To provide an example of what these teams where capable of doing, BATF was working a gun buy in South Dade, the sellers decided to rip off the BATF UC's, not too smart, they got boxed in and decided to start a gun fight, real dumb, the two perps got off something like a couple of dozen rounds, as best as I can remember the BATF team returned something like 270 rounds, into a car with two bad guys in it, they where, shall we say neutralized. Yes by calling in a team, they (FBI) may have had to lay back and follow the robbers a bit longer while a team gets rolling, but the end result would have been a lot less good guys killed or injured, however back then and I believe still to this day, the FBI doesn't like sharing the spotlight with other agencies and seriously underestimated the fight to the finish attitude Platt and Matix had. That shootout is also a good example of why more than a a set number of rounds are needed in defensive shooting, those robbers while mortally wounded didn't just stop fighting, they where hell bent on taking out as many of what they perceived as the enemy, before dying, not unlike dealing with hopped up home invaders. Too many people armed or not, underestimate just how dangerous a armed criminal can be when cornered and ready to fight, as such the idea that it is not necessary to kill someone to neutralize the present threat can quite often be a fallacy, not based on any real documented facts. Bottom line if someone is shooting at someone else the person being shot at needs to if possible return fire until the person who started the fight either flees or ceases shooting, it's the victims decision it's the shooters decision to make, they have the choice flee or fight and maybe get killed in the process.
The correct number of rounds needed is the number of rounds that where required to neutralize the threat. It could be one or many dozen, my carry gun only holds 7 rounds, the reason is I am not all that large and it is impossible for me to conceal a double stack gun, that stated I do carry extra mags on my weak side, I fully understand 7 may not be enough, but I can change mags quickly should I need more. And that is why I find it ludicrous for people to claim no one needs more than X number of rounds, self defense is fluid, you don't know what you might be put up against, so over preparation is the only way to go. I would rather have more than I need, versus wanting more than what I have and that applies to many factors of life not just guns. I learned that the hard way, many years ago I fully restored a 1970 Plymouth GTX in Hemi-Orange, it was a beautiful car and rare as it had factory air conditioning. It also had 2 Holly 4 barrel carbs, and Holly's where known to leak gasoline out of the rear float chamber, if not rebuilt every six months or so, it was a factory defect made worse by the excessive under the hood heat of A/C GTX's. Driving North on SW 4 Ave I stopped at a light Just North of ht Marshall Street bridge, the car was idling rough and I noticed black smoke coming up from under the hood, I ran the red light turned west on Las Olas stopped and opened the hood, I had an engine fire, not having any way to put it out I began digging sand out of a guys yard and tossing it on the engine it was sort of working, some guy came out of his house and yelled at me he just called the FD, he grabbed a spade and also began tossing sand on the engine. Then it hit the fan, the fire had burnt into the wiring harness, this powered up the dual Holly electric fuel pumps which began flooding the engine with gasoline, I didn't have any tools to cut the battery cable and by the time the guy with the spade found a cutter we couldn't get near the car, the fire went out of control, the FD quickly showed up but by then the interior was on fire and the car was totaled. For the lack of a $25 dry chem extinguisher, I lost a fully restored GTX. That loss really sunk in to my way of looking at life, yes insurance is nice, but they urinate all over you when you file a claim, yes the FLFD got there quickly, but they couldn't do anything other than cut the battery cable and knock down the fire, yes the guy who I didn't even know did his best to help me out but it went way over our heads. Bottom line prepare, you don't need to get over the top about it, but prepare, an ounce of preparing beats a ton of cleaning up after not preparing bites one in the fanny. And it's a lot less expensive and much more convenient than not preparing and having to hold one's hand out, hoping someone else will step up and help out.
Yep, agree, all three, but particularly relevant to this discussion, the last two and there is a lesson on how to end the threat as well. The lessons of that shootout were lessons for all in LE, and for civilians as well. Not Hollywood, but real life, real lives. Sadly, some good ones gone. Some say the blast of a gun is scary, other the racking of a shotgun slide... the scariest sound I ever heard was click.
Racking a shotgun slide is myth pushed out by people who have no idea of what they are talking about, it gives away the most important thing a defensive shooter has, stealth, that sound gives up where the defensive shooter is located and can invite incoming fire, it is literally a Hollywood movie sound effect and has no purpose in defensive shooting. The only sound a home invading criminal should here, is the blast of a shotgun, as the 00 Buck is entering his body.
Sad thing is that the FBI is going back to the 9mm instead of the .40 S&W. Not that the .40 is measurably better than the 9mm but because I've spent a lot of money on .40 S&W because all the police were using it. Most experts will agree that shot placement is king - more than number of rounds or size of hole. In relation to the topic of this thread, though, the OP shouldn't get excited; shot placement is tough when you're afraid for your life so bigger holes or more holes are very important. But the FBI was likely wrong to blame the 9mm round for the deaths. Even though the 10mm is an impressive round, accurate shot placement using it in a life-or-death scenario would be tough.
Racking the slide on your shotgun may very well be the last sound you hear as the bad guy shoots to the noise.
For those interested in what the FBI says... https://sofrep.com/gear/the-reasons-why-fbi-went-to-back-to-9mm/
What?? A Hollywood myth? You haven’t been trained well enough... I mean Hollywood indoctrinated enough. You need to watch more Hollywood.
