Why don't the black boxes in airliners float?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Aleksander Ulyanov, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    All this fuss about Malaysia 709 would be moot. Surely making an indestructible box that records no more than voice cockpit and flight path wouldn't necessarily make it too heavy nowadays. Even if it would, it has locater devices which come on when it hits water. Why couldn't that include space for an internal gas bag?

    Makes no sense to me that the thing is built to be found even at 14,000 feet and doesn't just float. That still makes it really difficult to find and recover, and I think it's about the average depth of the ocean, certainly not the deepest parts.
     
  2. robot

    robot Active Member

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    I like the idea. Have another black box that is ejected if certain events happen. This one should not only float but send out a distress signal. While we are at it black boxes should be able to record as much data as a good iPod. That is many hours worth of video.
     
  3. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately there is a problem with incorporating a gas bag. The box would have to open up to release the gas bag which would mean that the box strength was compromised. The strength is the important attribute of a black box. Perhaps the idea of a floating separate beacon (similar to a satellite mobile phone?) is released on contact with water (or as soon as the plane power supply is disconnected) may be feasible and automatically switches on and transmits a signal to satellite showing position as soon as contact with water is made

    Edit : Robot post is similar!!
     
  4. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    The question should be why are they still relying on black boxes at all...there is digital technology in use already that supply data feeds to satellites, airlines dont want to pay the additional cost for it's installation and it cant be turned off by the flight crew...
     
  5. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    There's still a need for black boxes, they record much more than a reliable sat signal could. There's also situations where satellite signals wouldn't work (plane upside down, in heavy rains or clouds, mountainous areas, etc). However, the technology to send position and basic information like altitude and speed to satellites 99% of the time is easy. ACARS already does that today but it can be switched off, and was for MH370.
     
  6. goober

    goober New Member

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    You mean why don't they include an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) that would be deployed in a crash?
    Good Idea.

    This a something that a lot of boaters (well if they are the kind that crosses oceans) have.
    It's a GPS/Satellite phone/ radio beacon combination. When activated it gets a GPS location, and uses the satellite phone system to send a text message to the Coast Guard. (Who call your home to see if they know where you are, because most messages are from EPIRBs that have been activated by accident.
    But if your family says you are sailing around the world, and if the coordinates are out in the ocean, they will dispatch aircraft and helicopters equipped to detect the radio beacon that the EPIRB then becomes.
    I could see including one that would be deployed if the plane was in water, something that could not be controlled by the cockpit.
     
  7. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    The air pocket would weaken it.
     
  8. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Search is a 'massive, massive task'...
    :confusion:
    Missing Malaysia Airlines plane search a 'massive, massive task' Abbott says
    Sat April 12, 2014 ~ A mother's lament: "They only keep saying, 'We are searching'"; Abbott predicts a long slog; "We're optimistic," U.S. Navy commander says; Up to nine military aircraft, one civil aircraft and 14 ships search Saturday
    See also:

    Missing plane MH370: HMS Echo in 'black box' search
    12 April 2014 ~ The crew of a Royal Navy ship are "working 24/7" to hunt for flight recorders from the missing Malaysian plane, their commander has said.
     
  9. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    How about a separate black box attached to the tail fin(not sure what the technical name for it is)? Heck, why not one on each wing, the tail, and maybe the underside. The more the better. Make them capable of broadcasting a signal. Make some of them capable of floating. These would be in addition to the standard black box system they already use.
     
  10. robot

    robot Active Member

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    Suggestion in the paper was to have the information sent via satellite to the cloud where it can be used for many purposes. For example such information should be able to predict when a part will fail. Or maybe detect the fact that the pilot is not in control of the aircraft.
     
  11. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    ACARS does this now, but the pilot can shut it off. I'm guessing that particular feature is going to change soon.
     
  12. contrails

    contrails Active Member

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    The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) already requires commercial aircraft to carry an Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) that goes off if the aircraft crashes, whether on land or in the water. If MH370 crashed, I would like to know why this equipment didn't function.
     

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