Why is education so poor?

Proof of the above wild contention? What is the percentage of homeschooled kids who take standardized tests? I thought homeschoolers were against standardized tests?

 

This page references a bunch of studies showing that homeschoolers outperform public school students.

Unfortunately the reasons for this don't really apply to most public school students. The parental involvement and influence that drives students to perform is what drives parents to home school. In most cases the same students would outperform their peers in a public school environment. Still they probably get even better results by homeschooling, since they aren't held back by slow students or distracted teachers.

 

Home schoolers are REQUIRED to take standardized tests, and conform to a government dictated curriculum (depending on state laws). Their kids are just more curious and open to receiving information due to it's presentation. Home schooled children are taught individually making each learning experience unique and taylor made to that particular child... no mass "education system" can trump that.

If you want "proof" of the advantages of home schooling over "public education" just Google it.

 

You need to have "specialized schools".

In Belgium we not only have the right on education, but the right on freedom of education. It is in our constitution after a 100 struggle, this fundamental principle is very important to us.

Meaning that every student, no matter where (s)he lives can go to any school he or she wishes. They can change schools at any given time.

Also, schools have a lot more freedom too. But, when they fail to attract students they need to close down because they wouldn't receive any funding.

The entire concept of "school districts" in the USA is hoplessly backwards.

Anyways, my high school offered GSE-courses: Math-Sciences, Languages-Sciences, Human Sciences-Languages, Latin-Sciences, Sciences-Math, Latin-Greek, Economics-Languages, Economics-Sciences, Economics-Math, etc.

We only had one TSE-course and that was "Tourism".

Then you have other school who only offer TSE-courses or VSE-courses, or TSE and VSE-courses.

Possible courses in 3th and 4th year of high school (it narrows down during 5th and 6th year):

 

So, specialization in Vocational Secondary Education:

 

All those stats were ancient--latest was 1997. That was before NCLB, when standardized scores in the public schools started to go up.

Homeschooling is great for those who can do it. It's not a solution for everybody, and to suggest it is is ludicrous. (similarly, public schools or private schools similarly are not a solution for everybody).

 

It's state by state. In Alabama and Florida (last two states I've lived in), there are no requirements of curriculum or standardized tests for homeschoolers. In Georgia, (the other state I've lived in), there is no curriculum requirement for homeschooling other than that the following subjects be taught (reading, language arts, mathematics, social studies, and science), but no specification about what should be taught, and standardized tests required every three years.

Home schooling is great for those who can do it. Not everybody has the temperament, ability or paycheck to do it.

 

I agree, but you won't sell that idea to most Americans. They see it as too rigid, and that you are pigeon holing kids too early. I used to teach. One school I taught at was becoming a magnet school. The teachers designed a rigorous curriculum for the top tier in the magnet school. The parents on the committee made us water it down, because they didn't like that our curriculum would keep kids out of the curriculum after the 2nd (of 4) yrs. They wanted kids to be able to go to the top tier until their last year. that made the rigorous curriculum undoable, since we had to figure out how to give students second chances.

 

My sister has six kids that she home schools. One has Asperger Syndrome and is STILL scoring higher than most public "schooled" kids.
She lives in NYS, so there is a lot of regulation on home schooling parents.
Then again there are many private home schooling associations and groups that offer support to parents and kids.

 

No, home schooling is not for everyone.

Private schools (as we currently know them) are not for everyone.

But obviously, public schools (as we know them) are not for everyone either.

With full voucherization, the money would follow the students.

If parents homeschooled their kids for say the first five years, and they can pass the standardized tests, the parents should get the voucher.

If some kids go to private schools as we know them (actually under full voucherization all schools would become private) the money would follow them.

Some of the "new" (100% voucherized) private schools could cater to high-performing students. Others would cater to average performers, others to special-ed and morons. Still others would cater to troublemakers. the key is that all students would be provided with an equal OPPORTUNITY for education. Whether they partake or not is up to them.

 

Each state differs. From what I've read, more states resemble FL, GA and AL than they resemble NY. I think NY is one of the harder states to homeschool in due to bureaucratic regulation.

Asperger isn't usually associated with low school grades. In fact, most Asperger's kids are high achievers. Kids with Asperger's main problem is socialization, so of course, homeschooling would be ideal for them.

The thing is, homeschooling isn't for everyone. I don't doubt that it works, as most cases I've seen it does work. My wife (an excellent teacher in a classroom) tried to homeschool our boys during summer breaks. It didn't work. It was kind of like a doctor treating his/her own family. She was either overly harsh, or overly lax. It wouldn't work for us.

 

Homeschooling is good to brainwash children. No more than that.

If not observe which kind of people support homeschooling. Basically people that would like that children think exactly like them. Normally people of conservative ideology and extremely Christian.

 

First thing, voucherization will take on average 10% out of the budget for current public school kids. So, the first step will either be to increase the money going to education, or accept that we have just enriched existing private school parents.

(Here is how that assumption works. Let's assume that a public school system today is spending $10k on each student (just made up round figures). Our district contains 1000 school aged kids. That said, the nationwide average enrollment in private schools is 10% of school aged population. Therefore, we have 900 public school kids and 100 private school kids. So, today, our district spends $9,000,000 on education for those 900 schools. Tomorrow, we institute universal vouchers. We are going to divide that $9,000,000 among the 10000 kids, so now, each kid gets $9,000 to go wherever. Let's look at 2 scenarios: 1) everybody likes where they are. We still have 900 kids in public schools. However, those schools now only have $8.1 million for those 900 kids. The private school gets the other $.9 million. Most private schools have little room for new enrollment, so if I'm the headmaster, I raise my rates by $6000 a year. Why? Well, the parents will still be saving $3000 a year from what they had spent. I keep the riff-raff out, I can then snipe all the good public school teachers by offerrng higher pay, and I can fix up my facilities. the principal at the public school is screwed. He has $.9 million less, and his best teachers are leaving. now he has to hire the dregs that the private school used to hire.

Scenario 2: Private school can't take many students. Let's say another 10%. (Private schools that are good usually are full and have waiting lists). So now we have 110 private school students. We'll assume bad public schools, and none of the parents want to send their kids to public school. We have 890 students that need education. They either have the cash strapped public school (after all it has less money than it had, as the private school student money had to come from somewhere), or send their kids to the new fly by night private school. There is no way to judge it, it's just open. What as a parent do you do? Do you risk the cash strapped public school, or the unknown private school? WHat if the new private school goes out of business (as new businesses are apt to do).

I don't buy the idea of universal vouchers. I do like the idea of school choice within a district. Give parents an option as to which public schools to send their child to, on the public dime, not just the closest one to their house. I don't mind targeted vouchers, targeted to the poor districted for failing schools. I just don't think universal vouchers will be a good thing.

 

Homeschoolers do tend to outperform public students.

Regardless homeschool parents are people who care about their kids education but can't afford private school. They are people who don't trust our underperforming public school system to raise their kids for them.

 

Private home schooling groups and associations are good for finding out what works for kids.
My sister doesn't have a degree in education but her kids were testing at a third grade level while still toddlers (she has a thirteen year old that takes college courses at a local community college). This doesn't mean her kids are "special," it just means the government system doesn't work.
There are a variety of support networks for home schooling parents.

Government "education" provides all the indoctrination needed by the state to promote it's progressive agenda.

 

Really, I've read about a new trend of homeschoolers who are the opposite.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswe...ted-parents-are-turning-to-diy-education.html

The origin of homeschooling (as an alternative to conventional schools, not as a necessity for rural folks or a privilege for rich folks) is in the hippy movement of the 1960s, with people who wanted out of "the system."

 

Yep, sure do. Cause they did away with tracking, the Pledge and a moment of prayer. With 300 million people, we are in 4th place against folk with 3 Million population. We are doing okay but the system needs to be vamped and concentrate for the slower students on reading, writing and math.

 

As a sidenote - I'm old enough to remember the hippies.

The hippies were funny and phony at the same time. Basically, they were harmless .. except to themselves and despite their support of communal living and rejection of middle class "bourgeois values," they loved money and material things just as much as everybody else. Many of them came from upper middle class backgrounds and when the cash was getting short, a phone call to mom was in order.

Many in the radical new left hated them and considered them worthless.

 

I don't. Even if parents attended the meetings and there were good books, education would still suck.

 

I've been well ahead of the average student in public school, and I was in public school. The only private schools I have around here are parochial. I don't care for learning about God.

 

This shows you much of what is wrong with our education system. Trouble is, most on this board won't watch it. They will blabber on about other things and not try and learn the truth. They're to afraid it will go against their, or their Party's belief


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw"]Stupid in America - YouTube[/ame]

 

Marine1,...

I was talking about that video before you even posted it. I didn't remember the reporter's name and I re-watched it the first time you posted it, because I knew it featured Belgian kids...

 

I'd have to agree with much of what I'm seeing in the video. And since I remember very much what I experienced in Virginia's Public Schools in the 1960's, I would agree that the schools today, aren't what they used to be. Bad schools SHOULD be shut down and/or reformed.

Money IS part of the answer in some places; but certainly not THE primary answer. And going after unions themselves, isn't the main answer, better defining how unions operate is. Defining (properly) what unions are allowed to negotiate or affect as policy is what is most reasonable. Even so, teacher/school performance needs to be measured and acted upon; especially if they show a trend of 'failure'.

I agree that publicly-funded schools aren't the primary problem, yet how they are operated surely is. I'm a Liberal/Progressive for certain... but considering my experiences in an awesome public school setting (elementary through high school)... I know that public schools can surely work well. I also know that we should improve our schools, where they need improving.

Whatever it is that's standing in the way of kids learning (and today, it is likely not only the schools themselves, but American society's effects in general), needs to be PUSHED out of the way. I can agree that what many Conservatives are promoting is PART of the answer, but Progressives surely need a voice in making things better also.

To the media presentation itself: I think it was well-done... and I would like to see a few other news organizations cover that particular thing VERY frequently. We cannot let-up on making the schools what they should be in America.

 

I have to ask (please be as objective as possible; minimize partisan spin):

What is different about American society/kids (as compared to the Belgians)... that makes such a major difference?

(After all, teachers aren't the 'total' problem in America.)

 

I'm sure part of it is believing everything is someone else's responsibility - parents expect teachers to teach their kids, teachers expect parents to help, kids expect not to have to work for it.

Part of it has to come from the two-income family concept. Rather than raise and train their own kids, parents expect the school system to do it. It used to be that kids knew basic reading and math before they started school. Now when kids start school they often don't know anything yet.

I'm sure there are other factors involved. In the end it comes down to priorities. People tend to succeed at what they actually treat as their top priority. Unfortunately their kids education rarely makes the cut.