Why super PAC monies are illegal

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by pbmaise, Mar 16, 2012.

?

If Jack gave Bob money for Bob to commit a crime

Poll closed Nov 21, 2012.
  1. Jack is guilty of the crime

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Jack is innocent since Bob did the crime

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. Don't know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. pbmaise

    pbmaise New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The United States is based upon Common Law.

    No Court rulings removed individual contribution limits.

    If Jack gave $10,000 to Bob to commit a crime...then Jack also committed a crime. It doesn't matter if Jack gave it first to Jane who gave it to Bob.

    If a prosecutor can show Jack expected Bob to commit the crime, Jack is also guilty.

    This is accomplished using common law and the reasonable person test.

    Jack can claim he gave the money to wash his car money, however, if a reasonable person looking at the totality of the situation concludes otherwise....

    Jack goes to jail.

    The Courts have already demonstrated they will apply this reasoning back on January 31, 2012.

    The only thing missing is a prosecutor winning to take Jack to Court. The US Federal Election Commission won't do that.

    Congress anticipated problems like this. It built in a provision for a citizen attorney general to step forward and prosecute on the FEC's behalf.

    This is exactly what I have done.. and links to the 105 page complaint can be found on my profile.
     
  2. pbmaise

    pbmaise New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Perhaps, he has already filed the case in Federal District Court. The nearest one was Guam (yes that is part of the USA and his closest court).

    Understanding why a gay man is almost essential to defeat super PAC money you first need to consider what super PAC money does.

    It has caused 3 potential presidential candidates to take a "Pledge" to ban same-sex marriages nation-wide and they have agreed to "sack" judges that disagree.

    This is all detailed in a 105 page brief submitted to the Court. To gain standing in a case like this, it is important to demonstrate injury in the past, and injury is likely to occur in the future.

    It just so happens that same-sex couples like to go on honeymoons too. Hawaii receives 450,000 honeymooners per year.

    The gay man who filed the case co-owns a bed and breakfast there that has suffered from laws banning same-sex marriages. Since presidential candidates have made a "pledge" this constituted a threat.

    Outlined are three legal arguments that most super PAC money is illegal.

    The United States is based upon Common Law.

    No Court rulings removed individual contribution limits.

    If Jack gave $10,000 to Bob to commit a crime...then Jack committed a crime. It doesn't matter if Jack gave it first to Jane who gave it to Bob.

    If a prosecutor can show Jack expected Bob to commit the crime, Jack is guilty of the crime and can go to jail.

    Showing Jack is guilty is made in court using common law and the reasonable person test.

    Jack can take the stand and claim he gave the money to get his car washed, however, if a reasonable person looking at the totality of the situation concludes otherwise....

    Jack goes to jail.


    The Courts have already demonstrated they will rule regarding campaign contributions back on January 31, 2012.
     
  3. AJ98

    AJ98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Could you condense this into something a little more coherent?
     
  4. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't think there is anything coherent to be condensed.
     
  5. AJ98

    AJ98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Thats what I thought.
     
  6. TrueBluTexan

    TrueBluTexan New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It is basically a rant against superpacs. Other than that, the OP does not know WTH he/she is talking about.
     
  7. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    0
    GOOD.


    Now lets make both Obama and Romney ineligible for the 2012 election.
     
  8. ragavang43

    ragavang43 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jack can claim he gave the money to wash his car money, however, if a reasonable person looking at the totality of the situation concludes otherwise....

    Jack goes to jail.

    The Courts have already demonstrated they will apply this reasoning back on January 31, 2012.

    The only thing missing is a prosecutor winning to take Jack to Court. The US Federal Election Commission won't do that.


    ya ya i like this!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. pbmaise

    pbmaise New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The suit is 105 pages long and condensed down:

    If a reasonable person believes the contributions were to elect a candidate than legally it went to that candidate and was subject to campaign limits.

    There is no such thing as bright-line here. The US is common law.
     
  10. AJ98

    AJ98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Superpacs do not coordinate with the candidates they support, therefore the money raised by the superpacs are never physically given to those candidates. You argument is now dead. Please go away.
     
  11. pbmaise

    pbmaise New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes a lot of people will soon wish I went away and not sleep well. There is a reason I request the ability to transfer defendants to criminal court. Those that do know the criminal penalties for excessive or prohibited campaign contributions might want to do some reading.

    Court documents finally reached Guam's Federal Court today Monday March 19th 2012. They are not entered in PACER yet. Thankfully I was not out in Micronesia visiting friends when I wrote the suit. That would have taken longer.

    A three judge panel will decide the case. If not ruled in my favor, I will next be allowed to take it directly to Supreme Court. However, I anticipate a favorable ruling based upon evidence against super PACs and rulings in First Circuit Court of Appeals.

    In light of research over the weekend as described below I have asked for an expedited preliminary injunction.

    Here is a small part of the supplemental brief.

    SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF DECLARATORY JUDGMENTS AND
    PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION -CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
    On March 12, 2012 Philip B. Maise proposed Plaintiff and Citizen Attorney General of the
    United States acting on the behalf of the U.S. Federal Election Commission (Plaintiff) air mailed
    a COMPLAINT and BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF DECLARATORY JUDGMENTS AND
    PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION -CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE for the instant case. The
    Plaintiff informed the Court that supplemental information will be provided. Along those lines
    the Court is informed of the following:
    1. The package sent by DHL from Malaysia to Guam took one full week to deliver and is
    now expected to reach the Clerk of the Court on March 19th, 2012. DHL's route is Miri,
    to KL, then Hong Kong, then LA, then Honolulu, and finally a flight to Guam that
    doesn't occur daily so the package sat two days. The cost to send this package was
    approximately $40 USD.
    2. During this time the Plaintiff established his PACER account. It is pm2641. The
    Plaintiff also phoned the Clerk regarding electronic submission. He submitted forms
    with the initial complaint to gain CM/ECF access so documents can be uploaded. While
    Guam may not have approved approved a pro se litigant, the Plaintiff requests that the
    Court view the difficulty and expense required for the Plaintiff to submit physical
    documents. Therefore, please approve the access request.
    3. Over this past week the Plaintiff attempted to inform proposed Class I Defendants as
    follows:
    2 Of 9
    a) On March 12th, and 13th major Class 1 class defendants were contacted via their
    websites. Websites typically had a page to enter comments or submit a “press
    inquiry”. The e-mail the Plaintiff sent was generic in nature and didn't specifically
    state they were being sued. Rather it informed them a suit was being filed regarding
    campaign contributions and that according to the Court some may be deemed
    excessive or prohibited. Links to the full complaint that was uploaded onto Google
    Docs were provided.
    b) The Plaintiff was able to reach all but one of the major defendants listed on Open
    Secrets website that during the month of February were still actively spending on the
    2012 elections. One proposed Defendant, about 5th on the list, didn't have an e-mail
    or contact form. The Plaintiff uses the term “actively spending” since there were a
    few political action committees (PACs) that operated early in the 2012 election
    season for candidates that were no longer running. Since their activity is nearly zero
    except for housekeeping, they will not be effected by any preliminary injunction
    however, will most likely be Defendants owing to having received large contributions
    from individuals.
    c) Since the proposed Class I Defendants contacted are attempting to solicit
    contributions from the general public, or publicize their candidate, the Plaintiff
    believes the e-mails sent to them were read. How far up the chain of command the emails
    went is not known. However, from the Plaintiff's experience working at firms
    any mention of a court case was to be immediately brought to the supervisor level.
    Until the case is filed there is no way they could reply.
    d) While looking for contact information on websites of the Class I Defendants the
    Plaintiff copied many pages from their sites that demonstrate:
    3 Of 9
    • Defendant activity is nearly identical and prosecution of them as a class is
    justified.
    • Defendants clearly list if they are supporting one candidate or multiple candidates.
    • Support Plaintiff's contention that money is being targeted to buy television
    commercials just before elections.
    • Support Plaintiff's contention that Class I Defendants are operated with the
    expressed purpose of helping contributors exceed individual donation limits. The
    following is a direct citation from one from one proposed Defendant:
    “For those who have already contributed the maximum $2,500 per person
    to the ______ presidential campaign, the _____ Super PAC allows you to
    continue to support the cause of______. Donating to the ______ PAC is
    a great way to continue to support ____ if you have already contributed
    the maximum directly to his campaign! (Candidate and PAC name as well
    as “cause” removed to avoid disclosure of PAC under investigation.)
    • One website provided an indication how PAC operatives prey upon senior
    citizens and solicit contributions:
    “The three political activists in their mid-20s gave pep talks and election
    tips to the white- and gray-haired men and women that dominated the
    _______ Party's bimonthly meeting” (Party name removed to avoid
    disclosure of PAC under investigation.)
    This same potential Class I defendant on their contribution page stated:
    “Unlike traditional Political Action Committees (PACs), _________ has
    no individual contribution limits, so please give generously.” (PAC name
    removed to avoid disclosure of PAC under investigation.)
    4 Of 9
    • One PAC on their contribution page near the top listed:
    “As the official Super PAC supporting _____ for President, we need your
    most generous contribution today so we can help spread the word that
    ______ is the committed ________ who can win.” (Candidate name
    removed and type of political leaning removed to avoid disclosure.)
    Farther down the page they had a tick box to make a $25,000 contribution
    representing 10 times the maximum if given directly to the candidate.
    Followed by that was a blank box for any amount up to $9,999,999. Near
    the bottom of the page is the statement “Not authorized by any candidate
    or candidate's committee”.
    e) In general it really is that simple to look at the solicitation from the proposed Class I
    Defendants. A reasonable person clearly understands their monies will go towards
    specific candidate, party, or cause.
    f) The Plaintiff anticipates simple summary judgments against Class I defendants.
     
  12. AJ98

    AJ98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    63
    LOL @ you thinking I would read any of that.
     
  13. Cigar

    Cigar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,478
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yea .. wink wink, nod nod ... :ignore:
     
  14. CoolWalker

    CoolWalker New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Who cares about Super Pacs...oh I'm sure somebody does, but I sure don't.
     
  15. pbmaise

    pbmaise New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Those that wish to comment before 3 judge panel in Ninth Circuit Court rules upon preliminary injunction request are encouraged to do so as soon as possible. The Plaintiff has requested a ruling on an expedited basis owing to reports of senior citizens being pressured into exceeding individual campaign contribution limits at group meetings.

    This notice does not indicate you or your organization will be effected by the case. The Plaintiff is unable to publicly disclose who is effected.

    Case information is now available on PACER.

    1:12-cv-00004 Maise v. Political Action Committees-Class I et al
    Frances M. Tydingco-Gatewood, presiding
    Joaquin V.E. Manibusan, Jr, referral
    Date filed: 03/19/2012
    Date of last filing: 03/19/2012

    Parties
    Philip B. Maise
    Proposed Plaintiff and Citizen Attorney General of the United States Acting on the Behalf of the U.S. Federal Election Commission

    CO Sarawak Land (Kemena Park)
    Miri Bay Marina - S.V. Hot Buoys
    Lot 271 Brighton, Jalan Temenggong Datuk Oyong Lawai Jau
    Miri, Sarawalk
    MY
    69-019-879-5673
    pbmaise@yahoo.com
    Added: 03/19/2012
    (Plaintiff)
    PRO SE


    Defendants
    Political Action Committees-Class I
    Added: 03/19/2012
    (Defendant)
    Individual Defendants-Class IIa, Class II-b, Class II-c
    Added: 03/19/2012
    (Defendant)
    Non-Individual Defendants-Class II-d
    Added: 03/19/2012
    (Defendant)
    Organization Defendants-Class II-e
    Added: 03/19/2012
    (Defendant)
    Other Defendants-Class III-a, Class III-b, Class III-c
    Added: 03/19/2012
    (Defendant)


    For those without access to PACER documents have been posted on Google Docs and may be viewed free of charge.

    Supplemental Brief 9 pages (Not yet filed)
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5KRWkGWgENNVXVSOURqSldRU0NFVXctd3RFVkpoUQ

    Complaint - and Brief 105 Pages
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5KRWkGWgENNRXdhUV9PeFpURVdsNHN6Q2hsdVNuQQ


    Exhibit 1
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5KRWkGWgENNMGVZQy0za1RUNldsUWQtYUV5NDlWZw

    Exhibit 2
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5KRWkGWgENNZTFCMzhIWlFSVDI4bWN5M0hfaEl4QQ

    Exhibit 3
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5KRWkGWgENNN3hsYVA3amVTN3VpRXg3NlJ2M29hQQ

    Exhibit 4
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5KRWkGWgENNSjdUYzdYNFRSaXlFdlRiQjNLX3Nxdw
     

Share This Page