Why We’ll Never Bake Your Fake ‘Wedding’ Cake

I'm not a science denier, just that it has NOTHING to do with marriage.

Where did I say they don't have a right to own a business open to the public? I never did. I said they need to follow public accommodation laws when they do. If a cake bothers them so bad, maybe they should sell socks instead or open some other business where their "faith" isn't tested.

And yet again you are simply flat out wrong. Don't worry after June SSM will be legal across the land and you won't have to worry your pretty little head over it.

So if there is a religion that believes in raping kids, we should allow that? I guess you are more sick than I thought wanting to rape little kids.

So you can't sell socks to someone if it is going to be used in the wedding? You can't drive a limo if it goes to a SSM? And what you refer to with alcohol, of course if I was going to do something ILLEGAL than yes you could refuse, but SSM won't be ILLEGAL after June.

I didn't think it was a put down at all. I hear your cries to come out of the closet, your gay dancing elephant. I'm trying to be here to support you, not put you down. Being gay is not bad at all, why are you ashamed of yourself?

 

But if there were a cure for homosexuality, they could be cured.

The only bigoted authoritarian homophobes I see are liberals.

 

And I said before, the same thing that happens when someone doesn't pay a fine for anything else. They can be jailed or property taken away (depending on the state).

That is of course if you choose to BREAK the law by not following public accommodation laws for a business open to the public. Are you being FORCED to run a for-profit open to the public business? Nope, not at all.

I love how you've been wanting to deny gays SSM and then you cry like your the victim.

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Just like if they find the cure for believing in magical Christian Sky fairies we could cure that as well.

 

Only a few states have passed SSM laws. Most states have passed laws defining marriage as one woman and one man. The SSM laws passed by a handful of states violates the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution.

Criminalizing religious beliefs violates the First Amendment to the Constitution.

I'm so happy for you.

 

Already been answered numerous times. They get jailed or property taken away due to BREAKING THE LAW. They aren't breaking the law by having a religious belief, they would be breaking the law for not following public accommodation laws.

No one forces them to operate a business open to the public that they feel they can't accommodate the public.

 

So they would be subject to jail or imprisonment for violating the rights of gay people?

 

No, they would be subject to being jailed or imprisoned for not paying the FINE from violating the public accommodation laws.

 

Cured from what?

 

What fines? what penalties? just free people making free choices to deal with people who believe as they do and tell bigots where they can stick their wedding cakes. What do you want, laws that say we HAVE to deal with religious fanatics? Maybe you should go peddle your cakes to ISIS, it sounds like they're more in agreement with you

 

I am not interested in debating scripture. That is the subject of another thread. Homosexuality is a sin, if you believe otherwise, you are wrong.

Because we have an Amendment to the Constitution which allows everyone freedom of religion. That applies to individuals, it applies to churches and businesses. You however, believe that people should be jailed for their religious beliefs. It will be a sad day for America when that day comes.

And he has a First Amendment right to freedom of religion just like everyone.

So now public employees are not entitled to religious beliefs if they wish to be employed by the government? That is discrimination against people for their religious beliefs.

All people are entitled to religious freedom because of the First Amendment.

Or be subject to fines or imprisonment if he refuses? Very sad day for America.

Headline, former Catholic priest sent to jail for refusing to perform gay marriage. Sad day indeed.

 

Where is law that criminalizes your religious belief. I know of several people that hold the belief that marriage is between one man and one woman and they haven't been arrested, fined, or jailed for that? Where is the criminalization?

Now, I do know of examples where someone breaks the law and violates the public accommodation laws with their open to the public business. Now if they choose not to pay those fines for breaking the law, they can be jailed or property taken away.

However, no Christian religious beliefs are criminalized.

 

Me thinks you speak with forked tongue. On the one hand you deny them the right to own a business, on the other you say they don't have the right to own that business. You do not have the right to deny them whatever business they choose. This is a free country, at least for now, until the Utopians take over control of every aspect of our lives.

I am wrong because you say so? What I have state is fact, and you cannot refute the facts.

Because fascist authoritarianism is what it's all about. What fun living in a dictatorship will be.

Well there are a few gay groups who are for redefining rape so they can have sex with little boys. I'm not aware of any churches that advocate rape.

Wow, where did I say I wanted to rape little kids? Can you come up with a better strawman argument for your personal attacks?

You don't have to be forced to do anything that goes against your religious beliefs. That is what the First Amendment means.

Once again trying to malign my character by calling me gay? You are sinking fast. Is that your idea of coming up a few grade levels because you are still in 3rd grade if you ask me.

 

Good Lord, the gay cakes returneth like a bad nickel. Sell them the damn cakes or stop making wedding cakes. Those are your only two choices.

 

Actually, yes you did.

Then you are not in business if you have no property or assets, but we know that they will.

Once again according to you, in many states it is not longer defined that way and soon enough the rest will be following along.

And anti-gay Christians are bigots, the difference is one was their rights and the other wants to deny others their rights, the Law will win in the end.

True, it just means you have to follow the Law or pay the price.

It is when you discriminate under the law.

Ever hear of the Supreme Court, the laws of the land are not based on the popular opinion at that moment they are based on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and under them the government, neither Federal or State can discriminate, which is what YOU want to do..

 

So, prison for Christians and making fun of fairies. People don't choose to break unconstitutional laws, there is no choice. You are taking away people's choice when you have to use the courts to enforce laws made up by the courts. The people have chosen to make marriage between one man and one woman.

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You are making their religious beliefs illegal. Then you blame them because you have to jail them for it.

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Exactly.

 

Actually more people are in support of gay marriage, so you are incorrect.

Nope believing marriage is between one man and one woman is not illegal. However should you violate public accommodation laws, that is the law you are breaking. Poor poor bigoted victim, you can't discriminate and now you are a sad panda.

Yes, they broke the public accommodation laws, their beliefs however are not illegal.

 

Once again turning the definition of bigotry on it's head by calling religious people bigots.
The only fanatics I see are the militant homosexuals who can't control their urges.
What do you think ISIS would say if you asked them to bake you a SSM cake?

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Now you are in just complete and utter denial. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

 

Ignoring the rest of your post which has devolved into nay-saying, why did the gays say that DOMA violated states 10th Amendment rights to decide on gay marriage for themselves?

 

You said your religious beliefs were being criminalized. I showed how people have held the same belief you have and NOT been arrested or jailed for their BELIEF.

Now, show us where your belief is ILLEGAL and you can be jailed for having a belief.

 

Give it time, society seems to be in the mood to bring religious institutions in line. Nothing happens overnight.......

 

There is nothing to debate, the article you posted concerning 1 Corinthians 6:9 is wrong, end of story.

Homosexuality is not a sin, I challenge you to find a single piece of scripture that says so that has not been misinterpreted or mistranslated.

No one is stopping any person from having freedom of religion, and no it does not apply to businesses that are for profit where they offer a service to the general public but refuse that service to others based on orientation, colour, or gender, and your attempt to misrepresent me is noted, please show anywhere I have stated that a person should be jailed for their religious beliefs.

correct, however the for profit business does not, the First Amendment does not give a commercial business license to offer services to the general public and then – in violation of a state’s public accommodation law – refuse to provide services to particular customers based on their race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, age, disability, or any other characteristic.

You can try to twist what ever you wish all it shows is your own ignorance. A person who wishes to, or already does work for the government will have as part of their contract a non-discrimination clause, if that clause is seen by the person as a violation of their religious beliefs they are free to end their employment status or decline the job .. if however they choose to take the job then they are bound by the contract of employment REGARDLESS of their own personal religious beliefs and as such cannot discriminate against others. Ergo it is the individuals choice as to whether they forgo their religious beliefs in order to work there or not, there is no violation of their first amendment what so ever.

Just as all for profit businesses are bound by public accommodation laws, you want to discriminate then run a non-profit religious business or become a private members club.

correct, just as any other person has to .. or can I as a business owner offer services to all people except Christians?

Headline : Former Catholic priest sent to jail for refusing to pay fines, would be the truthful headline not your propaganda one. It is a sad day indeed when people like you promote inequality.

 

Let's hear from that raging liberal, Anthony Scalia, on if you are allowed to break a law because: First Amendment!

We have never held that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the State is free to regulate. On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition.

And, also (quoting Justice Frankfurter):


Conscientious scruples have not, in the course of the long struggle for religious toleration, relieved the individual from obedience to a general law not aimed at the promotion or restriction of religious beliefs.

And, also, too:


Subsequent decisions have consistently held that the right of free exercise does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply with a "valid and neutral law of general applicability on the ground that the law proscribes (or prescribes) conduct that his religion prescribes (or proscribes)."

And, finally:


It may fairly be said that leaving accommodation to the political process will place at a relative disadvantage those religious practices that are not widely engaged in; but that unavoidable consequence of democratic government must be preferred to a system in which each conscience is a law unto itself or in which judges weigh the social importance of all laws against the centrality of all religious beliefs. - Employment Division v. Smith

 

Yeah Yeah doom and gloom. Gimme a break. Christians playing the victim because they can't discriminate. Now THAT'S funny.

 

Well I guess we have pretty much finished our conversation as well as you refuse to acknowledge your own previous positions and deny making statements that are clearly part of the record. You can't say send people to jail and then say I didn't say we should send them to jail. What is the point in arguing with you if you can't stand up for or admit to your own beliefs?

 

If you want me to reply, you'll have to publicly apologize for your personal insults.