Will Russia Be Able To Defend Herself Against Chinese Invasion?

Would Russia be able to repel a Chinese invasion of Eastern Siberia?

 

All Chinese clothes, as well as everything else manufactured there, is crap.

The Russians will do to the Chinese what they did to the Germans - freeze them to death.

 

Why would they want Eastern Siberia? Invasions of that nature are not allowed in today's context, it couldn't happen. China or Russia would need to pick on an under-developed nation like America does.

 

Lots and lots of minerals, plus endless natural gas and possibly some oil - and there's hardly any Russians living there! Why not?!

 

Good looking toys. Walmart?

 

They already get all that on the cheap via express piping. Why spend so much on war? It won't be cheaper.

China's Politburo decided at the last presidential exchange that China would take down the US militarily but without firing a shot— the plan from the inside is to force America to spend on the military, like the US did the former USSR, knowing well that the US cannot afford to. All the while, weakening the core of the American economy and creating a drug-level dependency.

China won.

 

russia is still the 2nd military power in the world. and yes russian CAN stop chinese invasion, and then counter attack.

 

I tend to agree. Even though their military is still 1/2 the size of the Soviet military, it is still top 5 in size and top 3 in punch. They are developing new technologies much faster than the Chinese, who have proven incapable of developing any sort of indigenous military technology themselves. In fact, anything in the Chinese military not leftover from the Mao era seems to be from Russia or reverse engineered from something that is Russian.


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well thats what i disagree. chinese patent has increase alot over the years. china do have its own development projects. they also reverse engineer and then improve the existing products. they are working hard and smart, they just lag behind so much, that they are still playing catch up.

russia however don't have much $$$ to develop new tech for many years. china has the $$$ and the engineer, if they don't they can just hire some russia scientist to develope their own project. back in the 90's after soviet collapse, china hire about 3-5000 russia scientist to speed up chinese own military technology. if you goto north-east china today, youll seen alot russian there.

that been said russia is still 2nd place in military power, and can beat chinese invasion.

 

it depends on context and objective, but the generic answer is no.

context wise of course, if Russia's having high tension with everyone and force to put most of their force on the western front, while China have a mutual agreement with NATO or something, then it's possible, but that's stretching very far into what-if land.

 

Uncle Ferd says dey better watch out...

... China got dat 200 million man army...

... an' ya know what dey gonna do to white Russian womens...

... `cause dey ain't got enough Chinee womens to go around...

... `cause o' dat 0ne-child policy.

 

China may have a gigantic Army, but how are they going to invade Russia? Has anybody here ever looked at a map, and seen what Eastern Russia is like? There is a reason the Soviets built their prison camps out there. Vast regions of swampy wasteland, which is laregly only passable during the harsh winter when everything is frozen solid.

Siberia would just swollow up any Army that tried to invade, Japanese in the past, or Chinese in the future. And the journey they would have to take to get to the really useable areas would make what Napolean and Hitler took a cakewalk in comparison.

BTW, nice models, 25mm Ral Partha Cossacks?

 

if they invade it will be sometime in spring or summer. but put weather aside, russia still has large army and decent equipment.

 

If the Chinese wanted to so bad enough, they could launch a attack out of Manchuria toward Ulan-Ude and Irkutsk. If the Chinese could seize the narrow Kultuk Gorge in the Tannu-Ola mountains at the south end of Lake Baikal they would have an impregnable piece of defensive terrain the Russians simply could not dislodge them from without growing mushrooms. The mountains (roughly equivalent to the Alps but with very few passes) are impenetrable to all but (unarmed) elite mountaineers for at least a thousand kilometers in either direction.

If you’ve had any military training, look on a map. The Kultuk Gorge is the Thermopylae of Siberia.

Once the Chinese seized the gorge, they could roll up the rest of the Russians east of there easily. The Chinese could hold everything east of Lake Baikal and the Lena River.

The Russians have no edge in cold-weather warfare. The Chinese could buy or copy excellent American cold weather gear.

A Russo-Chinese deathmatch - if pressed - would be another Iran-Iraq war. Both have big, but low quality armies and air forces. Neither has been seriously at war for decades.

But the Russians have more nukes, and after a long testing program, they can be pretty sure they’d work.

I agree it’s cheaper to buy what they want from the Russians, but the Chinese have a (tenuous) historical claim on East Siberia.

 

The Russian Far East will fall to Han China without a shot being fired. Same thing is happening to the American Southwest.

 

No, not the spring.

In Russia, they even have a name for a season that the rest of the world does not have. That is Rasputitsa, the Season of Mud.

Many people question why Hitler waited until June to invade the Soviet Union. To most people, he waited to late in the year. However, the main reason for this is that they had to wait for the Rasputitsa to end.

When spring comes to Russia, it comes with a vengence. The Fall rains that froze in the winter, along with all the snow that accumulated during the winter all thaw out fairly quickly, leaving most of the area unpassable.

And the Ruissians in pre-mechanized days invented a special wagon called the Panji in order to travel during this season. These wagons had gigantic oversized wheels, and a wide flat bottom, almost like the "Prarie Schooners" of the US. And during the Rasputitsa, this design would allow them to almost float on top of the mud instead of sinking into it as a conventional wagon would.

No, any invasion would have to wait until almost the beginning of Summer. Then like Hitler and Napoleon before him, they would have a very short campaign season before the fall Rasputitsa set in.

Then they would have to deal with the nastiest General in Russia. General Winter. He has destroyed countless invaders over the centuries.

 

Thats a great analysis, and as a end to this, it wouldnt matter if the Chinese did advance their military to the U.S. military power they wouldnt be able to take over even siberia. Its such a huge amount of land with such harsh conditions, that it would go into Winter season no matter what.

 

Thanks.

One thing many people notice in here (but many seem to fail to grasp), is that when I am discussing military subjects, any consideration of nationality goes right out the window.

I bring in my over 30 years of study and experience in the military, and look at the situation very objectively. I look at many aspects, both past and present, conventional and unconventional when making an analysis.

Over and over, I have heard people comment in various forums that Hitler was stupid to invade the Soviets in late June. But these people have absolutely no concept of what the Spring is like in Russia. To them, you might as well talk about invading across the American Midwest. That is how little they understand the local terrain and conditions in that part of the world.

And there have been invasions into Sibera in the past. China, Japan, even the US have invaded that area in the past. And each and every one failed. Not because of the Russian or Soviet military, but because of the incredible distances involved, and the horrible weather.

I mean, there was a reason that the Russians and Soviets built most of their prison camps in that area of the country.

 

People should trust your military analysis, i mean your picture is a man riding a giant bomb.

 

When has the US "invaded" Siberia?

 

Americans attempted to seize Wrangel Island off the coast of Siberia in the Arctic Ocean during the Russian Civil War. The Soviets expelled them.

 

Why are a fair amount of Americans becomming obsessed with seeing China as a threat? I just do not get it, but will come back to this at the end. Firstly, a few facts from someone that has lived and worked in China including alongside members of the Chinese goverment.

1. It was said everything is crap. Well, five years ago we bought a load of vehicles. A mix of Cat trucks built either in Dubai or the USA. Then some local chinese trucks. The US ones were dead by the end of the year. The local are still going strong.
2. Inovation. I i have never seen so much inovation in my life. I needed a RC drill rig, but, like Canada, they then only used diamond drill rigs. I showed them a picture and gave a general description. They built one in a week. At the moment i am looking for a man portable US rig. Every US and European company said there is no such thing and didnt want to speak about it further. I am now having one built for me by a Chinese company.
3. There not equiped for Siberia. The North East of China is known as Chinese Siberia, so they are very well equiped and experienced in operating in cold climate. Even Beijing gets (*)(*)(*)(*) cold in winter. They have excellent cold weather kit. I know because we use a lot of army surplus equipment.

Now, back to the initial bit. The reason i dont get the obsession with the Chinese military is that, as anyone who has lived and worked there would say, they have no interest in the US or Russia, or anybody else for that matter (with the possible exception of Taiwan). The Chinese goverment efectivly maintains a big army as a means of employing people and maintaining its domestic philosophies with the population - there is nothing like an ex serviceman to show national pride.

They have no reason to invade anybody. There economy will outstrip the US and Europe in time. The nation is flourishing. Lets face it, there is one country in the world that has a habbit of invasions and bullying and we all know who that is.

 

Look up "American Expeditionary Force Siberia".

After the end of World War I, the US sent roughly a US Army Division (2 Regiments, and volunteers from 3 other Regiments) of 8,000 men to Siberia in an attempt to help stabilize and restore the monarchy to Russia. This force was mostly concentrated in and around Vladivostok.

There was also the "Northern Russian Expedition" which was composed of another 5,000 men that landed in Arkhengelsk.

Yes, the US invaded Siberia, as did England, Canada, Italy, and Japan. Diplomatically, they were attempting to assist the Czech Legion, which was a force of 50,000 Czechoslovakian Soldiers trapped in Siberia during the aftermath of the Russian Revolution.

And of the 3 main goals of the Siberian Intervention (prevent war stockpiles from falling to the Bolsheviks, help the Czech Legion return to Europe, restore the White Russian government), 2 of the 3 were accomplished. The Czech Legion did make it back to Europe (with rumor sof 9 trainloads of gold), and destroyed or removed most of the arms and munitions in the region.

However, the capture and later execution of Admiral Aleksandr Kolchak ensured the final collapse of White Russian forces. So with the final collapse of the White Government, most of the allies returned home (except for Japan, which chewed off chunks of Manchuria and Siberia for itself).

 

I have said this many times before, but will go ahead and say it again for those that missed it.

I do not consider China to be a threat to any nation that does not touch it's land borders. And even then, it is a limited threat.

I also do not see China attempting to invade Russia. The idea is pure folly, there is nothing in Russia that China would want or need.

I look at these "What if" scenarios simply as a mental exercise. I compare one force against the other, considering size, composition, equipment, and present and historical tactics. I could not care less if it is China attacking England, or France attacking Morocco. To me these are nothing but mental exercises, and I do not take them seriously.

Personally, I do not see China as much of a threat because they almost totally lack the capability to project power beyond their borders. Yes, they have an absolutely gigantic army. But they lack any kind of means to send and supply them anywhere that their road and rail network does not touch.

And it has historically been that way... forever.

So to me in the US, China is about as threatening as the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.

 

What I’m talking is not overall conquest of Russia but rather biting off a sizeable portion (everything east of Lake Baikal and the Lena River) of it and holding it.

Rasputitsa does not work in eastern Siberia. Irkutsk has a climate much like that of Edmonton. Cold and dry. Besides, armed with modern cold-weather gear, there is no reason to suspend military operations in the winter.

East of Irkutsk, China has a huge logistical advantage over the Russians. Modern warfare consumes a lot of beans, bullets and batteries. Northern Manchuria is richly webbed with railroads that all lead to the Ulan-Ude/Chita areas of eastern Siberia. The Russians would have to send their men, equipment and supplies over thousands of kilometers of a double tracked electrified railroad. It’s a long, long way from Novosibirsk to Irkutsk, but only a short train ride to Harbin from Ulan-Ude.

Then there’s a morale issue. Russia no longer has a KGB. They might have a very difficult time getting enough men motivated enough to bear the rigors of winter operation in the coldest part of the planet.

During the 1918-19 intervention, the Japanese thought long and hard about simply holding what they occupied. Between the US and Japan, the intervenors held the entire railroad east of Omsk (where Admiral Kolchak’s White Russian Army confronted Trotsky’s Reds). After the Japanese and Americans left, it still took the Reds months to get to eastern Siberia, even against the disorganized Whites. If the Japanese had stayed and dug in at the Kultuk Gorge, Trotsky could never have gotten them out. And holding the railroad meant they could conquer the rest of eastern Siberia with ease. And who would oppose them? The US, French and British had all (half-heartedly) intervened against the Reds.