Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

So you think doing an immoral thing at Yahweh's request is a good way to avoid hell.

Who is more likely to ask people to do an immoral thing for their own selfish gain?

Yahweh or Satan?



Regards
DL

 

My father told me that if God really exists and he died and met him his first question would be why are you playing games?

 

A good father who taught you well.

All the gods are bored out of their minds. That is why they are such immoral dicks.

The unfortunate part is that theists do not see their vile ways. They end in adoring mass murderers who use genocide at the drop of a hat.

Regards
DL

 

Whats the 'immoral thing'? Not going to hell?

 

My view is that humans are probably the only creatures that know they will die one day.
I think this is too crippling a thought for some so they create a world where death is merely a door to another kind of life. And a god is there in total control of the passage ways.
It’s incredible to me that the thought of eternal torment is more comforting to some than passing out of existence.
My dad also quoted the apostle Paul who wrote that “faith is the evidence of things not seen”. Then my dad added “what the hell is that supposed to mean?!”

 

Legend has it that when asked by a theologian what the living world could tell us about a creator, biologist J.B.S. Haldane remarked that, "If He exists the creator has an inordinate fondness for beetles." In his writings, Haldane, who died in 1964, noted that there are 300,000 species of beetle and only 10,000 species of mammals.

Some doubt has been cast on the exact wording and context of this quote, but according to Wikipedia, Haldane's friend, Kenneth Kermack, told Stephen Jay Gould that the actual quote was "God has an inordinate fondness for beetles", elaborating that, "Haldane was making a theological point that God is most likely to take trouble over reproducing his own image, and his 400,000 attempts at the perfect beetle contrast with his slipshod creation of man."

 

As I understand it Christians think God sacrificed himself, to himself, to forgive me for a crime (sin) against himself. Yep. Makes perfect sense.

 

It does to me.

How might an immortal being objectively understand what it means to be mortal?

Seems to me, only by becoming mortal.

 

To be fair, that's not all theists. The ancient Greeks knew their Gods were dicks. They were more pragmatic and sensible about their mythology.

 

The immoral thing is the endorsement of or taking benefit from the suffering of another human being. If I killed myself to convince a judge that a man convicted of murder should be set free and not go to jail or even pay civil damages for damage done to the victim/family/community, would that be a good thing? It it be moral of the convict to jump up and walk out the door singing my praises? And most importantly, would that then fully erase the convict of any moral responsibility for the murder?

Don't you see something a bit off about vicarious redemption?

 

I do see your point.

But consider: ultimately, the difference between heaven and hell in the classic understanding is that heaven is in God's presence and hell is out of God's presence. Heaven is 'bliss' (love, peace, joy) because those things come from God, not because heaven was created with them. So as with hell- it is torment (lonliness, suffering and despair) because those are what exist where God is not.

In the dynamic of Free Will, both have to exist as God cannot force the unwilling to exist in His presence for all eternity, and it stands to reason that some will choose to be separate from God.

The problems you address with 'vicarious redemption' have merit. I'll add them to my reportoire of arguments against the common conception that hell was designed as punishment. I see it more as an unfortunately necessary option.

 

I agree with this and polytheism sounds way more fun.

 

There is one thing in particular the Abrahamic faiths choose not to deal with and that is the fact that Satan is a being that could not exist without God creating him. Therefore, it God is pure good and the creator of everything then where else could evil and the desire to choose it come from? Is evil a part of God DNA as it were?

 

Abdicating ones responsibilities for ones sins and laying it onto an innocent sacrificial victim.

What did you think was under discussion?

Regards
DL

 

It means that Christians are to be sheeple instead of thinking people.

God did it, is to answer all questions.

To the church, the only good Christian is a brain dead sheeple Christian, with deep pockets.

Regards
DL

 

Also Christians are to be the bride of christ, even males so there is the homosexual dominance element to Christianity.

 

I hear you, but what exactly nullifies the sacrifice and makes it senseless.

Do you see the nullification?

I just want to see how you articulate it.

Regards
DL

 

Good point, if your ideology did not say that Yahweh was all knowing.

Have you remove that omniscience out of his definition.

If Yahweh is not all knowing, why say that or call the genocidal prick a god?

Regards
DL

 

I hear you, but it is the current god and his vile homophobic and misogynous religions that are doing all the harm today.

Their evil ways are my focus along with morals.

Regards
DL

 

Heaven and that vile Yahweh do not allow for freedom of thought and action in heaven. At least that is what the myth shows.

Why would anyone wish to live that way and be a brain dead sheeple on command?

We seem to all want more freedom here, yet you would settle for a dictator telling you how to think forever.

Yuk.

Regards
DL

 

Yahweh is a god who, regardless of his reality or not, shows a dualistic nature, good and evil, yet Christians deny he is evil, even though he kills when he could just as easily cure, and does other evils.

To Christians, even the 6 day torture of King David's son before finally murdering it is all good because god did it.

Christian morality is quite corrupt.

What else would one expect when their god is a genocidal and infanticidal prick whose religions are homophobic and misogynous.

Regards
DL

 

FMPOV, given that even the most atheist of us is helping top off the tax shortfall that religion create via their exemptions, so we are all Jesus' bride and he gets to screw non-believers as well as believers.

Non-believers seem to like it as they are not attempting to get Jesus' dick out of their ass.

Regards
DL

 

On what do you base the emboldenned?

 

How does one achieve omniscience? Probably by experiencing everything.

He also seems to be timeless. It seems likely to me the two are linked. He knows all because He has experienced all, and He has experienced all because He is not limited in time. God knew at our creation what it was to be mortal, because he already knew of his 'future' experience of being mortal and living among us. But it makes sense to me that he did still have to actually do it at some point to experience it.

 

Thats what I said- you're suggesting that it is immoral for Christians to accept Jesus' forgiveness by abdicating their responsibility to suffer for all eternity in hell. Otherwise put, you think its immoral to not go to hell. Or even more simply put, you think all sinners should go to hell.

Isn't that some of the same unrelenting judgement that you accuse God if being a 'prick' for?

Maybe Jesus went to hell in our stead because He knew He could return from where the rest of us could not.