Your views on what constitutes art

Discussion in 'Member Casual Chat' started by Le Chef, Jul 7, 2022.

  1. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let's start with the dictionary definition:

    "The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

    I have no problem with this definition and think the "creative skill and imagination" is the nub of it. But I wonder what to make of Cezanne's famous still lifes, "merely" imitating a bowl of apples, and the designer at Ferrari who sculpts a new model of sports car out of clay. It's going to be striking and beautiful, but how is his product different from that of a new bulldozer, backhoe, or forklift? The bulldozer designer doesn't intend to evoke an emotional response, nor a sense of wonderment, nor say anything about the human condition. But somehow his work is less awe inspiring, less beautiful, than the Ferrari. But I don't know why.

    And what to make of amateur seascapes? Are they art, or just decoration, like random notes played on the flute that sound pretty but don't really say anything?

    A lady from the countryside was walking in the hall of my office building and stopped short when she saw a tacky old velvet painting of a ship at sea. "Oh daddy," she said to her husband, "Did you ever see anything so beautiful?" To her, that boat was art. It transported her to the sea and she was deeply moved by it.

    Sometimes I think "art" is a mere word in search of a meaning. But when I see the Pieta or any Madonna and Child painting from the Renaissance, I think "No, this is inarguably art."

    Today I saw a pistol drawn on a bathroom wall. Pretty mediocre in terms of skill and execution, but it had Monarch butterflies flying out of the barrel instead of bullets. That's art, too.
     
  2. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,023
    Likes Received:
    3,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO anything and everything can be art.
     
  3. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The definition isn't bad, but I'd add in that art can add in an intellectual side as well. The butterflies coming from the gun barrel is one example of that. A simple poem with layers of meaning could also be an example.

    Mostly, I think art is personal and what one sees as art may not be the same as what others see.
     
    Hey Now and Le Chef like this.
  4. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    21,596
    Likes Received:
    1,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think it is a personal thing
     
    Adfundum and Le Chef like this.
  5. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And I'd add that it's also a skill thing. If you can do things most others can't, or if you can do them far better than others, then it kinda, sorta, does qualify as art.
    IMO.
     
    Hey Now likes this.
  6. Gateman_Wen

    Gateman_Wen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    3,796
    Likes Received:
    2,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think there is one definition of art.
     
  7. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4,432
    Likes Received:
    2,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art

    According to what I guess was my first definition of art, I've known one artist. She could draw a person's face more or less with photographic accuracy.

    It's interesting to me that this ability is as far as I know a fairly recent human accomplishment.
    What's more, is that it is one that has been rendered not so valuable due to even more recent human accomplishments.

    I've got a friend that I've known since high school that was an artist with a camera.
    She could frame shots that captured scenes and instants in time that often seemed quite amazing to me.

    Randomly reading through another thread there was a link to yet another thread and I found these three excellent photographs posted there:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/share-your-photos.189880/page-24#post-1073539425

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/share-your-photos.189880/page-24#post-1073539520

    Now, what's fun about these pics is that they were posted by @crank and I am starting to suspect he carries on with some of his posts here to maintain cred as PF's emeritus grouch.

    The thing is, to me, visual arts as classically defined to include painting, sculpture and architecture have lost impact due to overwhelming new technologies.

    I suppose my favorite art is performance art and in particular I'm absolutely addicted to these modern multi-episode television shows.
    I've watched several of these more than once.
    And of course films are magnificent works of art in my book as well.

    Another fascinating realm of art was blown open by Benoit Mandelbrot from about 1975 to about 1982.

    https://www.dreamstime.com/abstract...-complex-patterns-self-similar-image109287181
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
  8. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    3,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Really depends on the audience. I have seen some WTF efforts at art that others were gaga for One piece that comes to mind was like a couple bails of straw, some chickenwire and some garden tools. Looked like a pile of junk in anybody's back yard to me, not "art". I do kind of find guilty pleasure in industrial art though which is kind of an upscaled version of junk.

    Digital art really doesn't do it for me beyond maybe photographs that are enhanced.
     
    Grey Matter likes this.
  9. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4,432
    Likes Received:
    2,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Art or not?

    Classically according to the above wikipedia link it seem to me that this could reasonably be considered a sculptural work of art.


    [​IMG]
     
  10. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If it's unique and/or the first of its kind, and if the designer wanted to create something appealing to something beyond the purely utilitarian, I'd accept it as art.

    But I don't accept that art is whatever the viewer thinks is art. An unadorned hammer is not art even if it moves you to tears.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
  11. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, but if you get hammered, everything is art.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
    557 likes this.
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Art is what moves us. It is whatever makes us realize that we are not human beings trying to be spiritual, but spiritual beings trying to be human.
     
    Le Chef likes this.
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My God. What IS that?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
  14. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's really very good.
     
  15. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is what?
     
  16. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your picture, it's obviously a bridge but where?
     
  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Stolen from Teilhard de Chardin
     
  18. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The bridge? I just quoted the post and the image appeared. I don't know anything about it. It’s pleasing to the eye. Art? I don't know.
     
  19. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    17,567
    Likes Received:
    9,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL

    I think there is a lot more art targeted to the hammered population than some times in the past.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
    HereWeGoAgain likes this.
  20. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4,432
    Likes Received:
    2,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  21. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4,432
    Likes Received:
    2,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Architects have their iconic buildings, engineers have bridges.
     

Share This Page