KGB Tactics

and therein is the problem. Yes pollution intensive industry will be penalised, refrigerants for example, but then they are pretty nasty pieces of work. This will all come a part of the costings. Magoo fantasised about a fisherman on another thread who's cost of refrigerant would rise by $3000 in the next 5 years, he neglected to mention how many thousands of kilos of fish that cost would be spread over if past on to the consumer. I am sure most fish eaters would pay the extra, as it is the oceans that are most affected by climate change.

Will it work, I'm not sure, I know it won't cause entire towns to vanish, nor the growth of some world wide superpower. There will be no zombies raised from the graves and we will as we have always done, over come the problems and learned from our mistakes ... hopefully .... I know it's the better solution that I have seen, it's better to something then nothing. At least the whole mess is being scrutinised, hopefully reasonable sanity will prevail, the stakes are high.

 

Problem we have in the fishing industry is cheap overseas product. Yes inferior to our own, but loads cheaper....currently. The industry itself is bent over the chair already with fishing ground closures and catch limits, coupled with dominant competition. You now introduce this new burden and I'm afraid to say that big pole is about to be firmly shoved in a place they don't want it.

I am not a big seafood eater but I am from a family of commercial fisherman and I feel for these families as the invariably face extinction. Over the last decade or so this industry has tried to clean up its act.......successfully to a point. Unfortunately they sometimes cop the blame for a declining ecosystem as they are easy targets. Farming practices, amateur fishing and other reasons also have contributed to the fishing grounds demise.

Just one more industry to bight the dust...........and the pattern continues.

 

If the CTS is to fail or we are to be ripped off, there is much more likely hood that it is by unscrupulous opportunists, that will stoop to any level to rip us off.

Example, David Nilsson.

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/8495029/the-carbon-cowboy

 

Well, don`t complain when the cost of living goes up, and don`t expect someone else to pay your share.

 

Why would I complain when the cost of living rises, that is the object. I never ask anyone to pay my way buddy, I have already made cuts in my usage of much that will attract additional cost and to my amazement I am benefiting. WE are using less heating and air conditioning and our health has been better. I bought a push bike for things like going to the shop for milk etc. WOW, at nearly 60 I hadn't rode a push bike in 40 years, I love it and am starting to feel the fitness benefits ... bring it on I'm loving this. It's life changing, world changing.

I'll also enjoy watching all the dooms day profits crash and burn whilst the rest of get on with life and building up our great country.

 

The other day my father (96) rang and the conversation got around to bills. I usually go up and pay his bills for him. I asked him for the details of his power bill as I was going to pay it by phone for him as I couldn't go up for another week or so due to major surgery.

I was staggered at how low his power bill was. Where Dad lives is hotter then here in summer and colder in winter, yet his bill is significantly lower then ours.

Commenting to my partner she replied, "Maybe it has something to do with how anal you say your Dad is about turning off things that are not being used."

 

Good to see. We are about the same age, and I`d be willing to bet that our objectives are similar in many cases, though life has taught us differing methods of approach.

vive la différence - sort of

 

I've seen a significant decrease in my own electricity bill as a consequence of my changing behavior, I kid you not! Didn't realise how much of an impact it would have by simply turning things off at the wall. It will cancel out any price rises well and truly.

 

Like I have said over and over again. The CTS is working already, well for intelligent people it is. We now look more closely at the energy efficiency labels rather then the styling on electrical goods. Automobile manufacturers are now producing alternative fuel vehicles and lowering consumption and increasing pollution controls. Push bike sales are increasing.

Those that don't care, drive around the streets and look at all those big houses with dozens of lights around the outside and on most of the evening. Just one simple example, if rising costs stop waste the raise prices.

Now dumb people keep wasting resources by listening to those bloody radio jocks who are usually pushing big business agendas.

 

Each AN plant at work costs over $130,000 to restart after each triweekly shutdown. We`ll just turn them off at the wall, should save a fortune

 

My age is on every post, and I truly hope we have the same objectives because mine is the survival of my grand children's world.

Yes vive la différence, for it is balance we need.

 

Need more context to what you are trying to say oz.

 

That's the idiotic reply I would expect from denialists, what a stupid and irresponsible remark

 

I love the fact that No impact has really been felt at this very time, you say it is already working.

Your little story of your fathers power bill, is amazing. How are you going to feel when the NEXT bill that comes, that has the increased cost on will be?

People have already been doing the things you claim, and not because of the carbon tax, simply because of the increase in cost of living.

As for business, producing cheaper alternatives, perhaps you should look at both parties for that one.

This new tax, will take time to impact and the Gillard government will go to the next election, when the full impact of this tax has hit the people. What do you think will happen then?

 

The people will see that the zombies never rose from their graves, no towns disappeared, all the conspiracy theories were just that. Labor will be re-elected.

 

I rang Dad and asked him, just for you. He said. "If my power bill rises by 50% even, although I don't think that it will be anywhere near that much, that's about $10 per week, no problem."

any other questions for him

 

Dad rang back and said. "If anyone has a problem living with the increased prices he will run classes on living within your means". Dad currently lives on the Old Age Pension.

 

To those people who have already done things already, the price rise will have little impact, but have also been compensated.....common Garry.

 

Good for him, point is that the increases have not impacted yet. Your posting such things, would suggest you believe they already do.


But I wonder, how much extra cost he can absorb along with that extra $10 a week on a pension? At this stage power is set to rise somewhere close to 18%. You know his bill work that out. Then perhaps you could work out exactly what extra rent he will pay, groceries, bus fair (assuming he does not drive) and so on. Then ask him if he can afford all of it.

As most people his age, he will sit there and tell you he will just have to cut back on some things.

 

LOL... it will not impact them? LOL

They have already cut back, with no tax, and the price rise will impact what they do use as it goes up. If they have already reduced as much as possible, how do you expect them to reduce MORE to return to the level they are at before the price rise.

I do take into account that many have not, as DV so eloquently pointed out. BUT to tell everybody that it will have no impact is simply stupid. any increase in cost, no matter what you have done prior, will impact.

As for compensation, Now that people are beginning to complain about the prices of tax payer public housing being hit by the carbon tax, and Gillard running around in attempts to rectify the situation of her oversights. it is obviously NOT ENOUGH.

 

On a quarterly bill of $250 dollars it would equate to around $45 every 3 months, which works out to be an extra $3.75 per week if that.

 

18% you say, we worked on a 50% rise in power costs, a rise of only 18% will be great since Dad is now saving about 25% due to be watchful.

Groceries, Dad spends about $60 per week on groceries. His main shopping list is 1 kilo Broccoli, 1 kilo carrots, 4 kilo potatoes, a pumpkin, a bunch of spinach, 4 kilos steak, some detergent, tea, coffee, sugar and milk. Doesn't generate a lot of carbon there. He doesn't eat processed foods, and he is 96 hmmmmmm

 

garry garry garry......for those that can't afford it, it has been compensated for, simple! I"ve reduced my power bill by over what the increases are projected to rise to. I therefore am going to be better off by way of one of the methods used to reduce carbon output, which is to encourage people to do things differently based on price incentives.

Everyone can be better off by making changes. Those that have made changes and can't afford it, will be compensated, so nobody will be worse off, but those than can afford to and who choose not to do anything about it.

 

The carbon tax just came in.

Nobody has received thier first bill yet.

But the only thing that is certain is that prices will rise for all goods and services unless they dont use energy.

But i cant think of anything that doesn't use energy somewhere along the way, can you?

 

and your point is, do you ever read other posts, read the previous one and try to understand it. It is very simple really. There is so much truth on these threads, but it is mixed with garbage parroted from self interested corporate sponsored antagonists and denialists