Labor Government to raid dormant bank accounts

Smart people the swiss by rejecting to join the UN they have saved themselves billions of dollars.

All this money can be pumped back into their economy infrastructure etc etc.

 

Well Mario seen as you are right onto this CIR, do some sums and convince everyone. Tell us how many referendums per year you would expect and then show us how much each referendum would cost.

I for one will be interested in your results.

 

Mario I would imagine the AEC might have some info to gauge costs by. I'm too lazy to look it up.lol. Sorry.

If my memory serves me correct, which is seldom, back in the nineties we had a referendum, might of been in regards to old queenie, now I think it cost upwards of 50 million. Just for a national opinion.

Now imagine how many decisions have to be made in a year, lets say it is only 10 critical decisions that the public have to oversee. That is 500mil. And countless hours of organisation. Just imagine if we had to go to a CIR in the midst of the GFC. The crisis would be over before we even got the forms in the mail, then they need collection, and we would be more broke than a blackfellas Kingswood !

How bogged down in red tape would we be ?

Lets say Indonesia decides it needs more ground for its swarms of lovely residents and they declare war on us. Just hang on a sec Bang Bang while we run this past Mario and the rest of OZ, shouldn't take long mate, only a jiff really, about 9 months. Just hold your horses.

As far as I can see it Mario, and I know in making light of it a little, but its unworkable. Remember our populace. We all sit here and watch the mistakes the yanks make and 5 years later we repeat them ! Wtf. How easy are we bought off. It only cost K Rudd $900 for a life time of love. The general public I am sorry are not equiped to make critical decision. Its a little different to choosing a cheeseburger or a pack of nuggets.

I understand your frustration with these parasites but we the public have allowed them to gain this level of disgrace. Through our apathy and lack of need for accountability.

 

Most people generally hate going to polling booths for general elections as it is, not alone multiple referendums. If it is a compulsory vote, there'll be lots of people p!ssed off, and if it's non compulsory, the turn out for referendums has been lower than 25% in all countries who have established direct democracy. It is a complete waste of money and time.

I'm with you slippery, I don't think many people are qualified to make a judgement call on many issues and can be left a little short trying to grasp certain topics(I am one of them on occasions). We elect representatives based on the fact that they have some nous and qualification to make important decisions. We have the power collectively to reject or embrace major policies, which was evident, especially with work choices. Most Australians rely solely on mainstream media to give them an understanding of a particular issue, which is simply stupid, but that's what people will do in the instance of direct democracy still. It will never be a measured decision for most people. Many haven't learnt to take the media with a grain of salt or could be because they are too lazy to do their own investigation in balancing up pros and cons. It already irks me how people simply parrot politicians and media verbatim to pretend that they have a good grasp on politics or a particular issue. I say, leave it as it is and lets keep these guys on their toes. The representative system is not too bad, and people will never get their own way even if we had a direct democratic system of governance.

 

OK I agree with you that you have no idea about citizen initiated referendum, with CIR people don't go to the polls because of what every tom dick and richard think should be voted on, if an issue is raised then it must have a petition where a certain number of citizen agree to have a referendum on the issue, I can't remember what the amount of signatures required is in Switzerland, if it was half a million or a million, but the issue has to have a certain percent of the public supporting it. If you have a look at the swiss CIR system in 100 years they have only agreed to hold referendums in only 300 issues. Now who ever said that it costs 50 million dollars for a referendum I think it is way worth it as more than likely now if we had CIR in place we would not be 260 billion in debt now, oh that bankers whore Gillard would not have even dared to go ahead with the carbon tax if we could have a referendum on it...would she?

And hoow much did it cost us to send troops to Iraq for a lie told by that lunatic George Bush? A million people protested against us sending troops to Iraq but the politicians, Libs back then ignored what the public demanded...now if we had CIR back then it would have saved us a lot more than 50 million dollars to what it actually cost to help that psycho invade a country that did no wrong to us.

Now are you getting it, that it is a lot cheaper to have CIR than let these parasite politicians run wild with OUR money!

 

Exactly D&D it has cost us billions to be involved with the out of control corrupt UN, hell man just last year it cost us 2.9 billion dollars to bribe other countries to vote for us to be in the security council....a $50 million referendum sure would have saved us heaps....yep how smart is it to have CIR when you look at the Swiss tellin the UN to F off out of their lives....no wonder why Switzerland is one of the wealthiest countries on earth....the citizens have control over parasitc politicians!

 

Mario not sure where you got the idea that I have no idea how these things work ? I am more interested in finding out how YOU think they work and how YOU would work them and pay for them. You see it is really easy to point out issues but a lot harder to come up with alternatives that actually work and are not some dreamtime manifestation. As I stated I understand your feelings about our current crop of politicians as I for one care very little for any of them, but what you are proposing will and can not be done under our our current political set up. So therefore we would have to scap the entire political system and re invent a new one to incorporate your idea of CIR. Billions would be cheap, we are talking trillions to do such a thing as every facet of welfare and tax are driven under the current system. These would all need be changed and re written, more trillions.

Then why would we need pollies, because we wouldn't, because as you say we would be making the decisions. All we would need is a CEO worth lets say 20 to 30 million per year to administer the thing. Just like, dare I say it, a big business.

So instead of getting on your high horse and throwing wild aspersions around, come up with a working alternative to show all of us how easy it would work and stand behind your statements..... Like an adult would.

 

Unfortunately TV the media are a larger concern as ethics are not part of their vocabulary. Until we can get some sort of ethical attitude from our media we will only ever know half truths.

Look I totally understand Mario and Dumbs frustration, I think we all feel it from time to time, and over the last decade or so we have seen a blatant move by pollies to act on their own account without the support of the Australian people. Work Choices as you put, was an act of sheer arrogance politically. The majority of Australia spoke up before its introduction and were ignored, then we all know what happened. The same is going to happen again. Gillard and co have arrogantly went against popular thought and introduced the Carbon tax, and we can all see where this is heading. Weather or not you agree with either policy, politically they were and are both lead weights to those that introduced them. Now if Howard went to an election and stated he was bringing in work choices as a policy and was still accepted by the people, then so be it. Same with Gillard. If she was up front from the get go we would probably be seeing a different result in the polls. The problem is the arrogance. To take the public as fools to do with what they will. So I can understand the discontent, and it is merited.

However I do not think a CIR is workable, all we would have is a bogged down s#itstink.

 

I agree totally, and yes the same scenario is unfolding for Gillard as was with howard & work choices. I don't think people in general are against climate change action but simply the perception (IMO) of gillard lying. If anything we actually need a prominent 3rd party.....The democrats were a genuine proposition for the future (IMO) until the "perception" that Meg Lee's sold out the people over the GST. I think the greens are a little too far left for most people and not sure whether their vote will increase vastly from where they are....I could be and am probably wrong.
At the end of the day, we need someone to blame and politicians have big shoulders.

 

Kind of like grass roots democracy. Good on them.

Though not so smart to decline to reduce the working week.

 

Can only happen when people get their information from non-corporations, or at least corporations with no advertising or donations allowed (impossible). Then you have the problem of confirmation bias, which will be the current/next generations big problem. When I look for news, i'm only going to find what i look for, which will generally support my world view. This is a big big problem developing with society becoming more and more polarised. Look out

I disagree. I could have wanted to vote for Howard for any number of policy reasons, yet hated the notion of Work Choices. Unless people are given direct democracy and vote on significant issues individually, voting once every 3 years does not cover hundreds of policies. Most people couldn't name 5 specific policy reasons they would vote one way or another.

Even though we have the ability to not cast a vote at all, the huge majority does. I'm comfortable with my opinion, without specific evidence, that those who vote don't even know what the majority (h3ll, even a significant minority) of policy positions are for their preferred candidate, and if they did know, they would not agree with all of them. Democracy should be broken down. Perhaps ditch the parties, instead simply have elected reps and more regular votes with fewer policy issues to consider at each election.

 

Geesus slippery where the hell did you come up with that figure of trillions...that is just stupid! Last time you tried to scare us by saying that a referendum would cost us 50 million and I posted facts that it would be a bargain as it would save us billions...e.g if we had CIR we would not be 260 billion in debt now....so your argument that a referendum is going to cost 50 million got shot to pieces so your went so extreme to say it is going to cost trillions?

Mate introducing CIR does not mean our whole world as we know it is going to be scrapped...it simply means measures are now introduced to make sure parasites known as politicians who we pay and employ do as we say.. we are their boss...get that simple fact in ya head!

If they want to be corrupt parasites then we can demand their removal...if they want to make statute laws that only benefit zionazi bankers at our expense then we can fire them for corruption and hopefully when CIR is introduced we will have laws that any politician that is a treasonous scum gets executed!

 

Your still rambling on with (*)(*)(*)(*)e. Show us some of your sums and give us some of the ways in which you would implement it. No good trying to show someone up with a plate of s#it mate, put some solid substance in your argument and perhaps we might start to see it your way.

 

I have shown you my sums, 260 billion dollars in debt that CIR would have stopped in its tracks, the carbon tax that CIR would have had that pathalogical lying lunatic Gillard fired 2 years ago, the Swiss system of CIR that has worked out so well to stomp out corruption by parasitic politicians that Switzerland is one of the most wealthiest countries on earth.

Now tell us how you came up with your big fat bollocks crapiola that CIR is going to cost Trillions? Man when you are going to lie you need to make it realistic, going overboard makes you look rather idiotic!

 

With all the bullish!t actually about switzerlands riches, we aren't too far behind!

 

You haven't cleared anything up, all you have done is start calling people names when they ask you how YOU, and I repeat, YOU, would implement such a policy and how much YOU believe it would cost to go to a referendum, and then back it up with figures to support your argument. I am not saying it is a good or bad idea, just one that appears unfeasible. You are the person throwing around all the mass conspiracy theories not me. So all of a sudden someone asks you to put forward your idea and costings and you go on some rant to disguise the fact you have no idea how you would implement it. Like I said it is easy to come up with these theories but as you seem to be finding it is a whole lot harder to come up with real feasible plans in which to implement them.

Doesn't take a super brain to throw around ideas and point out problems but seems it takes a whole lot more intellect to come up with solutions. Wouldn't you agree ?

 

Oh man labor stooge that doesn't even know that early last century when the ALP actually worked on behalf of the people (and why they actually became a popular political party) but are now Rothschild controlled....has no freakin idea that one of the main policies of the ALP when it first started was to introduce Citizen Initiated Referendum.

Corrupted to the core is now the ALP, completely banker controlled!

And you have no idea truthy....?maybe you should be re-named ignoranti instead of truthy...that would be more realistic!

 

Ahh yeh I have, exposing your big lying crap that CIR is going to cost trillions, how did you come up with that nonsense??? seriously how did you?

How do you not get that reining in corrupt politicians actually saves us billions (I am not as silly as you to say trillions).

There would not be a 260 billion dollar debt now if these scum out of control politicians had a leash around their necks.

i think anyone that says a politician is our ruler ( like you slippy) is a paid whore!

 

And the coalition aren't controlled by the same forces as you say? Come on buddy, this is such a stupid argument. Practice that serenity prayer buddy, you can't keep living like this, it must be unhealthy!

 

Wtf !

I think I might of walked through the front doors of the nuthouse here.

Mate you really need to see a shrink about this anger issue you have. When I said trillions it was more or less figuratively speaking. At the risk of another conspiracy theory rant. Trillions, zillions, gazillions. Just means it is going to cost a hell of a lot more than a few billion. Everything is linked to our political system. Legal, education, health, welfare, the list goes on and on. They are all Linked through legislation that is delivered through our political system. To change to your CIR would mean to change our system of politics. Hence why it would cost so much.
You should know this, because for months you have been rambling on about this CIR. Julia did a s#it, lying BITC# ! Gee we need a CIR, scumbag politicians, lying whore etc., etc.

Then you are asked to alaborate on your fine idea and you start some nutbag rant to disguise the fact you have no idea how you implement it and how much it would cost.

Dude you seem like someone who cares greatly about Australia, but you are coming across as mentally ill.

 

I regard any government taking any money form individuals, because they didn't have any account movement within a certain time frame, as unlawful.
If however a person has deceased and no one there to inherit the money to, different story.

 

I think a CIR on big issues like for example the carbon tax is worth its weight in gold.

Now if we have a look at the cost of a federal election a CIR couldn't cost more than that.

Cost of federal election in 2010 = $161,342,861

http://www.aec.gov.au/Elections/Australian_Electoral_History/Cost_of_Election_1901_Present.htm

Now if you consider the billions thats billions that are going out of Australia because of the carbon tax like i said a CIR is worth its weight in gold, if it manages to stop us from being fleeced.

For example just recently on the news that coal fired powerstations are receiving billions from the government.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/coal-bags-carbon-profit-20130219-2eplx.html

This money is going from our Australian government into the hands of a few wealthy people who own our powerstations, thier bank accounts are not Australian.

And they still have the audacity to increase electricity by 20%.

This is a farking big rip of and shows that our governments have truely lost their way when they allow things like this to happen.

Labor claims to be the working mans party but somehow always manages to make life harder for the working man.

.

 

Dumb I am not arguing the point of wasted money, as you well know my stance on this.

All I am saying is it is easy to blurt out the problems we all see but alot harder to to put forward a workable resolution. This CIR as you call it has merit but yourself and Mario the Magnificent are not putting forward the mechanics of it. Both financially and theoretically. What is working model.

Lets discuss it. Presumably in amore adult way than our Mario does.

 

I can`t see why referendums can`t be included the election process, as seperate issues of course. The way it presently stands, the election of political candidates, and specific, core issues suitable for referendum, are blurred and overlapping. The system we now have, is inaccurate, and slow.

 

So what are you proposing ? Set referendum dates throughout a year, and then perhaps in conjunction with an election ?

Say a referendum every six months ? I would imagine that it would cost the same regardless of whether it was 1 question or 10.