Did you notice the word PROBABLY in my post? Guess not. And since the TOPIC is abortion I HAVE the facts , they are NOT unknown to me. I think the Anti-Choice/Anti-Women people need to see the facts that abortion is here to stay... and need to realize that most of the world wants abortion legal. ...and should take a hint when THEY claim %99 of posters have opposing views.
Court must be adjourned today so I'll try again: Churchmouse: """""I believe abortion should be illegal...so that all unborns are saved. """" OK, so now pleases explain how making abortion illegal ends abortions so that "all" unborns are saved....??????? You can't name a time in history when there hasn't been abortions.
AND MORE ABOUT ABORTIONISTS.....ASK ANY OF THOSE WOMEN IS ABORTION IS SAFE? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xijloS7yl54&feature=youtu.be
***snort - you tube**** Statistics please - we pilot always into an unknown future facts are your only guide!!
You people will deny anything to propogate evil.... The story is true..... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/27/australian-doctor-charged-hepatitis-c http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-04-09/abortion-clinic-doctor-infected-women-with-hep-c/2584900 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...tis-c-infections/story-fnat79vb-1226575355532 http://www.news10.net/video/2208595...r-Jailed-for-Infecting-Women-With-Hepatitis-C http://www.reuters.com/video/2013/03/07/australian-doctor-jailed-for-infecting-w?videoId=241507904 http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/05/27/doctor-accused-infecting-patients-hepatitis-c/ http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=2208592391001 http://topnews.us/content/253175-doc-infects-50-women-hepatitis-c http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/addict-doctor-spread-hep-c-20120521-1z1fv.html This story is true.....weep guys weep.
No, YOU weep....you're probably best at it....Gee, didja miss post #502 AGAIN!??? Here it is for ya: Churchmouse: """""I believe abortion should be illegal...so that all unborns are saved. """" OK, so now pleases explain how making abortion illegal ends abortions so that "all" unborns are saved....??????? You can't name a time in history when there hasn't been abortions.
Wow so on the basis of a few bad eggs you conclude that the whole item is bad .. you must have had a field day when the torture revelations came out about guantanamo bay .. I mean if a few are doing it, they all must be according to your logic. Better ban all guns as well, I mean if you have a few people killing others like at Sandy Hook then all gun owners must be like that. Your gutter press attempts at sensationalism really do your cause no favours.
Yes all saved from the evil insane position that wants them dead. How do you know all could not be saved? You think all should be killed don't you? And again you run like hell from my post. I cant name a time in history when there was not evil either it has always existed. But I can remember a time when abortion was illegal. How about all the websites I just posted referring to the TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.
All YOUR websites? LOL! I wouldn't bother because abortion IS legal and shouldremain that way and If someone doesn't want to participate, if they don't like their job, they should quit and get a different one. (That's what righties always advocate). Gee, I sure hope you don't ever need an emergency blood transfusion someday and the only doctor available is a Jehovah's Witness who thinks blood transfusions are immoral.....
How could the pro choice position be evil ? God required abortion in the OT laws and the prophets prayed to God for abortion. You have yet to provide a legitimate argument that shows a single cell at conception is a living human.
If the doctor is a JW....THEN GUESS WHAT SKIPPY.....THIS CERTAINLY IS ABOVE YOUR PAY GRADE BUT......HE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GIVE ME ONE. YES, NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED INTO DOING SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO. SORTA LIKE YOUR STANCE ON ABORTION TOOTS. ITS HER BODY HER CHOICE. EXCEPT YOU WANT TO FORCE OTHERS INTO DOING WHAT YOU YOU YOU...THINK THEY SHOULD DO. HYPOCRITICAL POSITION. NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO. GET IT? OF COURSE YOU DON'T. NOT MANY RABIDLY PRO-ABORT PERSON WOULD BELIEVE THIS WAY. - - - Updated - - - I am not going to repost and repost and repost scientific data. You wouldn't get it or believe it anyway. You are so rabidly pro-abortion....the only thing that matters to you is that the killing take place.
Yes the court evidence was gruesome..of course you condone and champion abortion...so the testimonies would be NOTHING FOR YOU....YOU LOVE THAT KINDA STUFF DON'T YOU? LOL Clean up your jumbled post and use the correct quotes.......a day spent in court has you rattled.[/QUOTE]
You the pagan...tell me what the scriptures say. Show me scriptures where God condones abortion. And why are you bringing religion into this. Cant you debate it on a scientific level? Oh of course you can't.....that evidence would convict you...just like the fact that you condone late term abortions.
My, my all that screaming! ChurchMOUSE: """""NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO. GET IT? OF COURSE YOU DON'T""" But yet you want to FORCE women to give birth. And then YOU call others hypocrites......tsk, tsk.....
Just a question for you. You have fought over abortions rights since I have been on this board and I understand your position but have never recieved and answer to the following: Do you believe there is any reason a woman should be able to have an abortion, during the first 3 months, rape, incest or health reasons? Oh and while you are at it, do you believe the morning after pill or any other pill to avoid getting pregnant should be legal? I am curious to see if there is any middle ground for you or are you one of those that I have seen on pro-life sites that what all of the above itmes mentioned made illegal. Care to give it a shot or will you avoid the question?
I'm betting on ignoring your post....besides, that poster has just declared, """"""NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO. GET IT? OF COURSE YOU DON'T""" I assume that means total access to BC and abortion....so that they aren't FORCED to give birth.....
I agree with your calling out the "appeal to the raging masses" fallacy. Just because the raging masses think something is true does not make it so. The difference in this case is that that people had really good and valid arguments against slavery. On the lifer side there are no valid arguments for making all abortion illegal. At conception for example: The best argument from science lifers can get to is "experts disagree" (for the premise the zygote is a living human) Subject matter experts in relevant fields of Biology are almost unanimous but like in everything, there are always a few who hold a differing opinion and still they need to contort language in order to confuse people because there really is no valid "why" that holds up. But even if we grant " experts disagree" this is then the same as saying " we just don't know" How do we value "we just don't know". If we value the constitution and the protected rights of liberty an pursuit of happiness we then need a darn good reason to deny these most basic rights to women. How can we justify giving a higher value to "I don't know" that the value of the rights of a woman ? ... and what would be the consequences to the validity of our legal system if we did so ?
Not that it matters to the abortion debate as the constitution forbids making laws on the basis of religion but, there are many places where God condones (or even commands) abortion and numerous places where the prophets pray for abortion. Conversely there is no place where the Bible expressly forbids abortion. The Bible places little value on fetuses or infants less than one month old. Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. How else would you know they were not virgins. Regardless this command condemns a pregnant woman and her unborn child to death. This passage speaks for itself: Here God commands abortion by as a punishment for unfaithful wives. God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women. Obviously if God cared for the unborn child in general he would wait until the child was born prior to carrying out the death sentence. As far as science is concerned I have already refuted all of your arguments on that front.
You have never posted any valid scientific data. We have been through this and you were left with no response. All you posted was opinion, the majority of which was from non subject matter experts. The best position you can get to, and it is debatable that you have achieved this, is "experts disagree".
I don't need to not when I produce the documents where the scientific data is in. Why should I have to provide the research documents that scientists have studied and written. Do you ask for all the scientific data behind the making of the medicines you take? That would be absurd. You take it on faith from the doctors and the makers of the pills...and the verification from the Food and Drug Administration. I have given lengthy lists of doctors, scientists who attest to what I am saying. I have given lists of medical textbooks that state when life starts. The information in these books....come from documented research. I should not have to produce the studies for the factual information that I give...if what I am posting has been accredited by the authorities and specialists in their fields. What I posted about this came from doctors...and scientists. Do you know better than they do? Are you an authority in a field relating to this? I did not just post a few random doctors who says life starts at conception. I posted many many doctors, authors of textbooks. Sure your going to find a few that will say the opposite. But look at the evidence and what the majority says. Why do the textbooks that doctors learn and study from....say what you said is not true? Why do you think this is?
So? In post #512 you stated: """"""""NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO. GET IT? OF COURSE YOU DON'T""" So you are now Pro-Choice....you finally get it! good for you!
Giftedone said, Why do you think it was once illegal to abort? Why do you think that sodomy was once illegal? Why is gay marriage illegal? Our Founders gave Christian ideas and principles favorable treatment when they constructed our historical documents. Many laid out in speeches how they felt particularly about Christianity and what it means to a well functioning and moral government. No moral law in the States? Yes there most certainly was. Did you know that the Bible did not say pedophelia was bad, or child abuse....or rape? Because the sentence does not appear condemning any of these....do you think the Bible or God would suggest they are ok to do? The evidence and scripture of the entire bible attests to the fact that God loves the unborn and considers them equal to that of the born. You just don't know the Word to know differently. LMAO Ya think do ya? This is the thing......Pro-aborts bend over backwards trying to dismiss these Bible verses. Why? These verses indicate that abortion kills babies whom God sanctified and formed in the womb....where the Holy Spirit lives. Abortion is sin....it is going against Gods Word. Here is God's Word. "Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:4-5). This scripture says that God "formed" and "knew" the baby "in the womb... before" the baby was "born". "What then shall I do when God rises up? When He punishes, how shall I answer Him? Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One fashion us in the womb?" (Job 31:14-15) Who made the baby in the womb? "For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; marvelous are Your works, and that my soul knows very well." (Psalm 139:13-14) Who is YOU, in this verse? It is God....He had a hand in our creation. God forms the unborns inward parts. He is not a bystander. Luke 1:15 states that John the Baptist will be "filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb", which means that the baby in the womb has a soul for the Holy Spirit to fill.
Aren't you just all over the place!!! Please keep religion in the religion forum...as you say, Why are you bringing religion into this? And YOU posted that """"NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO"""" So now you are officially Pro-Choice! Congratulations!!!
You are the one making the claim " the single cell at conception is a living human" therefore it is up to you to give valid support and rational for this claim. First off, as stated to you before , a doctor is not a subject matter expert any more than a first year chemistry student. Second, none of the sources you quoted gave "the why" it was all opinion. I went through every one of your sources . It was nothing but opinion with no support. This is not how "real" science works. I have way more expertise in this field than a doctor, of that I am 100% sure. This is not saying much however because doctors in general are not experts in the relevant field of biology by any stretch of the imagination. Why do they take, perhaps one biology class ? I work in the field of applied microbiology and have a pretty good idea of how organisms are characterized. Relevant expertise aside, it does not take a PH.D Biologist to figure out that a single human cell is not the same as a human. The majority ? Not the majority of subject matter experts, that is for sure. I even cited a subject matter expert claiming that no Biologist she knows claims that the zygote is a human. I http://en.allexperts.com/q/Biology-664/Classification-Homo-Sapien-cells.htm If you read further in the article this PH.D in Biology goes on to provide the rational behind her claim. Third and most important - I posted evidence from subject matter experts that did give "the why" and which contradicted your premise. (you can not just post some opinionated claim from a textbook in an unrelated discipline and expect it to be taken seriously if it does not give "the why" or rational behind that opinion - this is the major problem with the stuff you have cited) The stuff I cited gave "the why", the rational behind the premise. Even if we accord some validity to the unsubstantiated opinions you cited, the best place you can get to is "experts disagree".
