Is killing an abortion doctor murder or self defense?

I understand your point of view but you do not understand mine so; thus, you do not have a foundation for understanding the debate.

Your facts are subjective, not objective, and have shifted depending on opinion.

 

Nope, no facts have shifted.
They are still:

Women have the right to their own bodies.

A fetus is not a baby.

A fetus is not a person.

I know the facts.

Maybe you could help the poor slob who thinks murdering someone who has caused them no harm is self defense.......

The end.

 

In 1850, if you were part of the Underground Railroad smuggling slaves out of the South, were you freeing people or are you stealing property?

Legally you would be stealing property. Legally, you would be breaking the law, but morally and religiously you would be doing the right thing.

Its the same today with abortion.

 

Thanks for illustrating my point so distinctly.

 

If a prolifer is comparable to an Underground Railroad conductor, exactly how are you freeing/saving the zefs? Actually, all you are doing in your attempts to change the law is to force the woman against her will to birth the zef, at the risk of her health and life, and permanent damage to her body. You may think forcing a woman to use her body against her will is moral and right, but it is far from it. Underground Railroad conductors risked their own lives for their beliefs. "Pro-lifers" risk the woman's health and life. See the difference?

 

The Underground Railroad saved the lives of people who were powerless and at the complete mercy of their owner. Pro-life people save the lives of people who are powerless and at the mercy of their owner. There is no difference.

 

there is no difference when the one looking is a fool. the fetus has no life, no claim on the life of the mother. the already born are realities, the fetus is just a potentiality. that is a HUGE difference. the fact that you don't like it does not change the fact.

 

Yes there is - they did not give those people they saved BACK to the owners and insist that they now were responsible for care and nourishment of those individuals - because that is what "pro-life" does it may prevent the occasional abortion (and hey you would probably save more lives in America each year if you had rational gun control) but they do not assist the person to rear the child

 

Murder, no question about it.

 

Of course not.

It becomes a person at birth. But if the fetus never makes it to birth for whatever reason then it never becomes a person.

 

The Underground Railroad helped real people. Pro-lifers hurt real people, taking away their self determination and autonomy, forcing them to use their bodies against their will resulting in health and life risks and permanent significant damage to their bodies.

 

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

Yup, if abortion was made illegal women would have abortions anyway because morally and/or religiously they feel there's nothing wrong with having one.

Anti-Choicers want to enslave women ,treat them just like the slave owners of old , force them to breed, treat them like children who need to be controlled and punished...just like slave owners did to their slaves....some people think there's nothing immoral about that...so it is a question of morals and everyone's are different.

 

Where do Anti-AbortionChoicers save people's lives?? What "people's" lives have been saved?

How? When did they???

Seems to me AntiAbortionChoicers want women powerless and at THEIR mercy.....

 

Oh lord, I see by the poll that another one has decided that you can kill someone who isn't harming you and call it SELF defense.....

LOL! My,my , such a little word "self" and they can't get THAT right....

 

The key is "malice a forethought", that I'd that it is premeditated AND planned with malice (not necessarily done with malice). Like I said, generally the distinction would be glossed over, but someone who is very calculating could easily commit murder without any malice or hate. Suppose your friend says he's going to attack a school with a group the next day - you might decide to kill him that night, even though he's your friend and you don't hate him, but it is a calculated choice.

 

Those 5000 zygoats have FAR more potential than that one baby though.

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed. But you CAN kill someone in self deffense, or, in self deffense of another.


So, by killing ab abortion doctor, some feel that they are saving other peoples lives ( the aborted fetus's ).

 

No, SELF defense means defense of yourself. You CAN kill someone in defense of someone else but it's not SELFdefense.



Yes, some idiots thinking that by taking the lives of actual people that they are "Pro-life"


Funny thing...... IF fetuses are legally declared people then women would have the right to kill the fetus in SELF DEFENSE....

 

Well, they are basically a serial killer—that's essentially what they are. It's no fundamental contradiction of terms to kill in order to SAVE life. The government does it all the time.

The only two issues are whether the individual in question deserves it (Yes!) and whether it would save other lives (probably not in this situation).

We've already discussed this; the personhood status of the unborn has no bearing on the woman's alleged right to "self-defense". If anything, it would weaken it.

Here's our little conversation, if you don't remember...

 

I'd call it murder, its God's job to punish them, not ours.

 

Private citizens can come together and vote for government officials who will.

 

No, you can't make up your own meaning of "life," and then make up your own laws to go with it.

 

Ask that idiot Scott Raeder and everyone involved with the assassination of Tiller if it's murder.

Or you can continue to live in fantasy land, and listen to that coward sleeze David Leach, who promotes killing abortion doctors but would never do it himself. The very definition of a popinjay charlatan scumbag.

Yes, it's MURDER to take the life of an abortion doctor. That's it, end of discussion. The biblical slant here ALSO says it's murder, so the religious argument is total BS from all angles.