How is a $15 federal minimum wage connected to Covid relief?

We have that with the child care tax credit and the EITC and other refundable tax credits. You claim you are an economist and that a almost doubling of the minimum wage and the pressure that will put of wages upstream will not be disrupted when we are trying to get people back to work and EARNING money so that other tax payers don't have to spend their money giving it to them. When we are trying to get business to hire and expand especially those lower paying service sector jobs that have suffered so much where 1/3 of their expenses of labor this is what you propose. What economic theory states that the best way to grow the economy and increase employment is to increase the cost of labor?

And Milton Friedman who invented the NIT had several stipulations. That it would replace ALL other welfare and government subsistence and tax credits to the lower incomes and it would mainly be targeted to families. And he stated at the beginning that there would be a component of people who could but would not work under the system that it could disincentive work and later discussed how that was more that even he envisioned and was pulling away from the idea.

Of you want to fight poverty and increase wages then grow the economy and lower unemployment, you as an economist should know this.

And what happened to all the blacksmiths when we moved to automobiles?
What happened to all the telegraph operators when we went to telephones?
What happened to all the telephone operators when we went to mechanical and then digital systems?
What happened to all the printing press typesetters and inkers and paper handlers when we went to computer digital and automated systems?

It's what happens in a free market capitalistic system where business are allow to innovate and expand with the least interference from government.

 

Who? What medium or large company pays ALL it's employees minimum wage and why don't the others?

 

Republican ones?

 

WHO? You made a statement of fact name the companies and why don't all the others just pay everyone minimum wage? If you are still working do you make minimum wage? If not why not?

 

mostly small and medium business run by republicans that want to pay lower than the min wage

if no one wanted that, they why does the right keep pushing for it?

you tell me who wants it, and why?

 

The wealth of the people in the top .5% have nothing to do with it other than your jealousy and envy of them. But if is the cost of goods actually fell and median wages fell should the MW be cut back accordingly?

 

Have you ever run a business? Do you understand competition for employees AT ALL?

 

what does that have to do with wanting to pay people less than a living wage?

the problem is, if some do it, they can undersell others, that is why foreign outsourcing is doing so well - that is why we need Government to equal the playing field

 

The labor cost for a fast food runs about 25% and for a full service about 30%. We are talking DOUBLING the minimum wage and then of course the wave effect up the wage scale.

And the effect on profits, the return to the investor in order to keep investors invested

"In the 2015 fiscal year, Walmart made a profit of $16 billion. This figure, when divided among Walmart’s 2 million-plus employees worldwide only works out to an additional $7,355 per year, or $3.67 per hour—and that’s with the company making no profit, something that private companies aren’t in the habit of doing.


Aside from wages, Walmart spent $500 million on hourly associate bonuses in fiscal 2015, as well as almost $900 million in retirement benefits. Walmart currently provides a 6% 401(k) match. "
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...almarts-biggest-liability-labor-costs-wmt.asp

And increase to $15 would take that to and additional $15,600 expense versus the $7,335 profit per employee. Add to that the margin cuts they would have to take try to hold prices increases down somewhat a good chunk will have to simply be passed on and since all the competition will be faced with the same..............

 

So we've already reached the point you will not support your claims, not respond to what I ask you and start with the being obtuse and dodging, gotcha

 

you refuse to answer my questions, then complain about me not doing research you want of me - too funny

and I bet you want me to do that research for you for free?

I will tell you what, you get me a list of all the companies that pay most of their employees min wage, then I will tell you which companies are greedy and would pay their employees less than the min wage if they could

 

Yes, I am and I'd bet plenty you have no idea what you're talking about.

For example, you claimed:

"The truth is that Trump outperformed Obamas economy by far, while spending less."​

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/trump-is-on-the-verge-of-losing-everything.583903/page-3#post-1072379765

The actual truth is that the real economic growth in Obama's last three years was almost identical to Trump's first three.



Not Trump, Obama, Bush the Younger, Clinton, Bush the Elder, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon ... back fifty years ... took steps necessary to step up economic growth. My guess is that you have no idea where the Orange Oaf and his predecessors dropped the ball.

 

How are you defining unpopular??

Two-thirds of Americans favor raising federal minimum wage to $15 an hour
BY LESLIE DAVIS AND HANNAH HARTIG



By a wide margin, Americans say they favor raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. But there is a deep partisan divide in views of this proposed policy – a version of which recently passed the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives, though it is unlikely to be taken up by the GOP-controlled Senate.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...r-raising-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/

 

A little bit of inflation is not bad.
But when you drastically raise minimum wage you trigger raises across the board. Employers, in turn, raise prices. Eventually, in several years, everyone gets back to where they were in terms of purchasing power.
Anyway, I don’t really mind it at this point - inflation reduces old debt, like student loans or mortgages. Sucks for new borrowers, but for existing ones things ain’t that bad.

 

Min wage has been raised dozens and dozens of times in history.
It has not hurt our economy.
We keep growing.

 

LOL, that's just silly.

Min wage has been around since 1938.
It's not ruined our job market.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history/chart

 

No I haven't you have just refused as usual from the getgo. You even had the gall to ask me to tell you what YOU were talking about. YOU made a statement

I asked YOU a question.
Who? What medium or large company pays ALL it's employees minimum wage and why don't the others?

Do you make minimum wage and if not why not?

So we've already reached the point you will not support your claims, not respond to what I ask you and start with the being obtuse and dodging, gotcha

 

Not a coherent approach.

This what the CBO said eighteen months back about raising the minimum wage



https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

There is a lot more to the CBO analysis, so you may wish look through it.

According to the CBO, at a minimum wage of $15/hour, 17m workers get raises to the minimum wage, 10m just above the minimum wage would be pushed to a small increase because you end up paying better workers more because you don't want to lose them. Somewhere from 0 to 3.7m would lose their jobs. Many small businesses would be less profitable because they have to eat some of the cost of higher wages. 1.3m workers would be raised out of poverty.

Assuming the CBO is right, we have a trade-off with winners and losers. What choice should we make and why? My preference is a negative income tax that replaces the minimum wage and most income support programs.

Yes, and how do we end up with a system that allows Joe and Jane American to earn a decent living? What we have now isn't working.

He wasn't as sure of his basic premise that a NIT would or could replace social welfare. I think he might have to considered a NIT would replace most of it.

A negative income tax increases production and employment.

Not sure where you're going with this, but we do train and retrain workers. This is an area where we need to do a better job.

We want innovation, investment, so there needs to be a strong return on investment, but we also don't want big corporations engaging in anticompetitive behavior.

 

It's not that simple. Some costs have to be eaten. Sometimes, by some parties.

You should look at what the CBO says about a $15/hour minimum wage in 2025.

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf



In a nation of 331m, the changes aren't earthshaking.

Perhaps. Depends if government intervenes.

There are negatives associated with inflation including difficulties making capital investments.

 

....censor. So does this site and so do the employers of most people. It is government that is not allowed to censor.

 

If business A pays $7.25 an hour for the same work that Company B pays $10.00 an hour for, who do you think will have the employees?

You can't exactly outsource entry level jobs. That burger and fries would be pretty stale by the time it hits the table.

So, since people are all wound up about minimum wage, what percent of the workforce actually only makes minimum wage, and what is the majority demographic of that group? What is the ripple effect of increasing the minimum wage on other workers who make more than minimum wage? What is the effect on the product being sold? What is the tax effect on the product being sold, and the impact on the overhead for the company selling it? What is the overall impact on the economy, and for how long?

Until you can honestly answer those questions, and I don't mean answer them to me, then you may understand why increasing the minimum wage really has nothing to do with a 'living wage' and more to do with raising tax revenues.

 

You make excellent points, and it is obvious that you know what you're talking about....

But you may have overestimated the understanding and 'scope' of the masses of people who won't think beyond the momentary, seductive idea of, "Oh, sweet! If I started making fifteen bucks an hour, I could get a new iPhone12"!

Truth? No matter how much the government jacks-up the minimum wage, INFLATION will gobble it all up, and pretty fast, too....

"A fool and his money are soon parted." -- attributed to Thomas Tusser, "Five Hundreth Pointes of Good Husbandrie", 1573

 

Inflation would be approximately two steps behind the wage increase. And all the wages above the MW increase would/should go up, or the people who earned their raises will be penalized. Some people don't look at unintended consequences, or should I say, Collateral Damage?

Unfortunately, those who are in the group as you say 'Oh joy!' will be blindsided by inflation, and likely still not understanding that they are STILL at the bottom of the income ladder, and still unable to afford the things they thought they had in their grasp.

When they actually increase their value in the marketplace, and earn a raise above FMW, then they will start appreciating what their skills can get them.

 

It is encompassing and far more than Friedman EVER envisioned and what he warned about.

CBO us a good source for historical data, but then they have been historically wrong in their predictions of the future.

It has worked remarkably well and better than anything else again

When we are trying to get business to hire and expand especially those lower paying service sector jobs that have suffered so much where 1/3 of their expenses of labor this is what you propose. What economic theory states that the best way to grow the economy and increase employment is to increase the cost of labor?

No it doesn't and as Friedman predicted it has a disincentive to work effect. The best way to increase production and employment AND WAGES is to support pro-business pro-employment policies. We just proved that the first 3 years of the Trump administration and now we are about to go back to the failed Obama/Biden policies.

You were railing about automation

And I asked
And what happened to all the blacksmiths when we moved to automobiles?
What happened to all the telegraph operators when we went to telephones?
What happened to all the telephone operators when we went to mechanical and then digital systems?
What happened to all the printing press typesetters and inkers and paper handlers when we went to computer digital and automated systems?

And said quite clearly where I was going with it

It's what happens in a free market capitalistic system where business are allow to innovate and expand with the least interference from government.

Now try again

 

This is the standard right wing canard about the min wage, it has however NEVER come to pass.
Why then does it persist?