Biden Compares Trump’s MAGA Ideology to ‘Semi-Fascism’

Oh, come on, Ron, you know that "semi-" means "half." So Biden was not going so far as to brand the MAGA faithful as Fascist. He was only saying they are fascist- like, or presenting a "lite" version, of full on fascism. To date, anyway. But if they were to come back fully into power, that would likely be a different story.

 

Technically speaking, I believe merely the separation in time between what is considered the "classic" age of Fascism, in the first part of the 20th century, and our present day, would qualify a differentiation of the two, by using the prefix for "new," in front of its modern form. While one can certainly make the case that fascist-like government existed further back in time, yet since the term "fascist/fascism" did not exist before 1919, when Mussolini coined it, to refer to the political movement which he led, and for which he had chosen the ancient Roman fasces-- an axe with a bundle of rods tied around it, representing Roman power-- as its own symbol, this is generally considered to be the birth of that philosophy, of utter state control, under a single, all-powerful leader/dictator/despot.

Clearly, what is trying to emerge in America, today, is only different in the details, not in its basic substance (except as far as private enterprise, goes).

Though I am no expert on it, nor do I think you genuinely asked out of a curiosity to learn anything. Hence, I will supply the following link & SNIP, for any who do, sincerely, wonder about the meaning of Fascism (whether in its "neo-" form, or the old school variety):

https://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-25-4-mussolini-and-the-rise-of-fascism.html#:~:text=In Italy, Benito Mussolini used,represented the power of Rome.

[SNIP]
Mussolini established the first fascist regime, followed soon after by others, including Nazi Germany. Fascism, however, differed somewhat from one nation to another. Thus, scholars often disagree on a precise definition of fascism. Even so, they tend to agree on its common characteristics such as:

Absolute Power of the State: Fascist regimes have a strong centralized state, or national government. The fascist state seeks total control over all major parts of society. Individuals must give up their private needs and rights to serve the needs of the whole society as represented by the state.

Rule by a Dictator: A single dictator runs the fascist state and makes all the important decisions. This leader often uses charisma, a magnetic personality, to gain the support of the people.

Corporatism: Fascists believe in taming capitalism by controlling labor and factory owners. Unions, strikes, and other labor actions are illegal. Although private property remains, the state controls the economy.

Extreme Nationalism: The fascist state uses national glory and the fear of outside threats to build a new society based on the “common will” of the people. Fascists believe in action and looking at national myths for guidance rather than relying on the “barren intellectualism” of science and reason.

Superiority of the Nation’s People: Fascists hold up the nation’s people as superior to other nationalities. They typically strengthen and unify the dominant group in a nation while stifling dissent and persecuting minority groups.

Militarism and Imperialism: Fascists believe that great nations show their greatness by conquering and ruling weak nations. Fascists believe the state can survive only if it successfully proves its military superiority in war.
[End]

This is why it would seem appropriate to categorize today's Russia, as Fascist. If Trump's ardent fans really understood the model they were supporting, one would hope they would have second thoughts about it.

 

We are already in a recession HERE. I don't care about how other governments are driving their own economies, I care about here we lead the world globally or at least share that with China and they are doing the same in their country.

Yes between stocks and real estate little where else to put your investment and real estate like stocks is due for a fall under these conditions. Which is why even if I wanted to buy a house, mine is paid for, just like in 2007 no-way. YMMV.
Yes rents have sky-rocketed and when the government tells landlords they cannot evict people who are not paying their rent the rent for those who are paying their rent is going to sky-rocket.

I really don't think those restaurants closing had much to do with the economy in France. People still aren't back in the workforce like pre-COVID and the prices are SKY-HIGH and people can't afford to go out and eat like they used to. We are in a recession and unemployment being a lagging indicator you will probably see more of such closings until this administration and Democrat Congress are voted out and hopefully more conservative, not RINO, Republicans are elected and roll back the massive regulatory burden the Dems have put on them, this insane energy policy (see my sig), get taxes back down the Bush43 days and vote them back in in a permanent bill. Drastically cut the remain COVID support payments. STOP the student loan vote buying scheme. Get our energy back where it was under Trump.

I'm sorry but I have gone through these economic crisis since the Carter days and heard all the Dem malaise speeches and how if we just place our trust in them they will take care of us nonsense. The best thing the government can do is insure a growing active economy with lots of opportunity and keeping capital IN the market rather than in DC. And then get out of the way.

 

You know employment is a traditionally lagging indicator. We just now FINALLY hit pre-COVID number of workers. Still lagging with almost two years lost. And more survey's showing companies are expecting lay offs. And the FED just announced it's about to hit the economy and the markets HARD. People are consuming less because their dollars buy less and they expect them to be buying even lessor with Biden's pro-inflation policies like this stupid student loan vote buying scheme. This will lead to stagflation like we've never seen and economist are warning.

 

I love how people, even 'historians'(who I lose all respect for, by not taking in evidence that is contradictory to their main views) cherry pick a few things and define that as 'fascism', when its prime inventor gave a whole manifesto(and several of his top advisors also gave manifestos) on the topic for these said historians to actually read into, yet they claim they weren't able to be specific.

(In fact, it was so clear that both Mussolini and Hitler agreed that Fascism and National Socialism(Nazis as the easy to digest form) were oil and water.). So for example, the bundle of sticks you reference is NOT a reference to a single man in control of everything. No, it's a reference to the idea that the sticks, if left to their own device would be washed away easily by a wave, but when bundled together the sticks become strong enough to support one another.

That's the message behind the symbolism. The class unity for a national unit. It's here where there's the most similarity and even there, there's massive differences. Proletarian Italy was trying to modernize her economy, since the end of WWI and yes there was the idea of synergy between corporations and the State(ie: the national government.). This synergy is why the oft phrased "the trains came on time.". This synergy, also adapted by Napoleon's France is the standard for excellence in public-to-private works.

The people within the state, the state within the people. All is encompassed because without the State, there's no people. And without the people, there's no State. If one squints, sure Hitler's Germany tried to emulate some aspects but to be clear on how stark the differences are, Italy's was of an economic renaissance experiment that might have actually worked, had Italy not embroiled itself in the failed war campaigns. Hitler's Germany was of the actual racialist mindset in government.

Just like if one squints, its easy to see the similarities between the black boots and the SS. But if one takes a magnifying glass and looks closer, the black boots were largely for appearances especially once Mussolini had control of the press. There was no Night of the Long Knives in Italy, because there wasn't really a need for public assassinations.

This is why the West tried to court Italy and in hindsight, that would've been the better play for the Italians long term but the Germans were right up on their border. Due to the alliance of geopolitical considerations, Fascist Italy cannot escape her larger and more menacing neighbor Nazi Germany, not even in historical review.

 

It's not I who's without the clue...lol

 

At least you didn't try to lie about Biden raising the debt. He just raised it by a trillion bucks, by forgiving the student debt.

 

I don't know of any "Trump ardent fans", certainly any Republicans or conservatives who uphold that which you bolded.

Absolute power - entirely the opposite, a federal state with the state and federal government restricted to what the Constitution allocates to each is what those on the right support. A president elected by the States as the Constitution dictates. It is not conservatives trying to take over society again quite the opposite the only moves to control society I have seen from decades are by the left just look at this sexualizing of young children and speech and art and every aspect of our lives and even control of our common language.

Rule by dictator - I know of no one not even Trump supporters whom I find support the proper separation of powers and checks and balances of the Constitution. I would note however Biden's willingness to knowing sign unconstitutional EO's knowing it will take time for any court challenges and he can use them for short term gain. Or his decree that student loans are to be forgiven BY ORDER OF THE KING.

Corporatism - Well I think it is the left that is in bed with labor unions and control and abet them in order to get their votes and pass laws forcing workers to have to join them and feed their coffers. The Reps/conservatives I know say government should stay out of it except to police corruption and insure elections are transparent and fair to the workers AND the company owners. What we have is a Department of UNION Labor. We have a President who routinely insults non-union workers as inferior to union workers and not as deserving as union workers and uses their own tax dollars to favor their labor competition with union shops. And as far as the fascist controlling private business, which side promotes and supports government telling private companies how they shall operate and what they shall make? Heard about the California mandate about no more ICE vehicles?

EXTREME Nationalism. What is wrong with supporting your own COUNTRY. It's not about the government it is about our country as a whole. Why shouldn't we be proud of the accomplishments of all of us as a country. Why should we want the best for all of us as a country, to be safe and secure with opportunity to better our lot in life and live as much freedom and liberty as possible? And again I would question which side is trying to legislate a national will.

Superiority - well I would say we as a nation are superior to lots of other nations present and passed. You wouldn't agree with that? I would say we are superior to Russia and China and Iran and Cuba for instance. I think there are lots of countries which share in that superiority such as France and German and the UK and Japan and Canada and lots of others. And it does show our strengths as with those other countries and we should uphold those strengths that help us flourish and advance the world for liberty and freedom. What's wrong with that?

Militarism - funny how America always seems to go to war to protect and defend others or repeal attackers against us yet after we win we go home and do not make those countries parts of us.

 

I know, that's why you fail to see the effects that global markets have on us. We're not immune. This would be happening regardless of who was running the govt. Dem or Rep.

Even leaders fall behind when everybody else does.

Nope, sold one big property a while back. Bought some rentals cash with the proceeds back in 2009-2013 and moved into a modest rental myself since I don't need much space. Don't care if the on-paper value drops as long as the cash thru' remains relatively stable. There's only my son to leave it to and he really doesn't need it that bad.

Well I live in West Los Angeles and the reason our rents sky-rocketed is because Silicon Valley moved down here looking for something cheaper. Which didn't work ultimately and obviously.

Not saying they did. Just saying the same thing is happening in France and parts of the UK, Australia, Canada etc. They didn't close because of recession, they closed because the land is more valuable as mixed use with an emphasis on dwelling rentals which, as they are being built now here are exempt from our city's rent control under the Costa Hawkins act. That said, the trouble with that ultra-expensive housing (which again is a global phenomenon) is it doesn't leave people with much left over for anything else. Then businesses start closing and the cycle continues.

See above. We've got tons of young people here on $150k p.a. salaries and even they feel stretched.

We were in a cyclical phase which had little or nothing to do with Trump, Dems or Reps there's actually very little margin between them in what they actually do in the boring day-to-day of economics.

Well I'm probably around the same age as you and the biggest difference I've seen in them is in social policies. The rest is pretty much "meh, same difference".

 

ah, so with Trump, it's Congress

with Biden it's Biden

almost like the right think Trump did not do anything

 

It will be the apocalypse.

I'll start digging my bunker right away.

 

If there is now, or ever will be, a place for "classic" Political Forum posts, American Nationalist, I here nominate your post, to be in it. What I love, is the way you begin by recommending that historians accept the definitions of what any given dictatorship is about, given by the leaders of those dictatorships. As I said, "classic." I will allow you, then, to quote Stalin & Lenin, and any other Soviet leaders you feel are worthy of the honor, to tell us all now, what the Soviet Union's political philosophy, as it was manifested, truly was, and should be henceforth defined as having been.

Bonus points, for bringing in Hitler, to add credibility to Mussolini's account. Nevertheless, none of you three, mention anything about the AXE, at the center of the bundle (which I would assume to represent the Head of State, with the rods or sticks being his representatives, throughout government's various agencies; but, then, I have never been an authoritarian leader-- so what would I know?).

And now you are bringing Napoleon Bonaparte, into the loop, among those leaders you admire, and feel are worthy of emulation. It is hard, under those circumstances, not to concede the historians' criterion about at least fascist "rule by a dictator," who often uses charisma, to gain public support; not to mention their ticking off "militarism and Imperialism," as characteristic attributes of Fascism.

So your sources-- in lieu of historians-- are three leaders, all of whom, led their nations to abject ruin (for anyone keeping score).

What a great slogan! Do you think Trump might be convinced to use it, for the 2024 campaign?--

The MAGA- GOP: no unnecessary public assassinations!



OK, I've had my fun, so I'll tell you what: you actually did wrap up your post very nicely, so I will let you have that last word:

 

Biden's the one that forgave all that student debt. Congress had nothing to do with that

 

For the record, your post was a refutation, supposedly, of my comment that the current MAGA movement-- excepting the criterion about private business-- essentially fit the description of classic Fascism, in the civilians' seemingly strived-for wish, to install Trump as our leader. Not previously mentioned by me, but applicable, would be the Republican leaders' moves to
1) exert legal control, over things as private as women's healthcare options (with gay marriage on the slate, in the near future), through their coordinated plans to take over the Judicial Branch of government, and
2) over the decisions of local government, when they run counter to the Republican governor's or State Legislatures' will-- as on mask mandates and rules to control crowd sizes, during the pandemic;
2-B) regarding local election control; and
2-C) in respect to local school district control over its curriculum, and policies: so I am going to call B.S., in advance, of your claim that Republicans support less government intervention people's lives, and greater "local" control of politics.

Now, let's hear your argument:

Already covered by me, above-- this first part of your argument, would make excellent fertilizer.

That is an interesting argument, as to why MAGA is not Fascist: sure, we are against the Constitution's checks and balances-- but who isn't?

If here, you are suggesting that we should make those defeated countries "parts of us," you leave me nothing left to argue, as you have already admitted, in truth, to all of the criteria of Fascism, except for: 1) the part about absolute power, which Republicans' scheming to get control of our Supreme Court, plus deny district court appointments to Obama, and then to stack those circuit courts, and the Supreme Court, with Trump appointees, disproves your denials; as do all those who've openly advocated overturning of the 2020 Presidential Election results, many of whom have won their Republican Primaries, with that as part of their platform!
2) the "Corporatism" criteria, regarding state control of private business, which I had already excepted.

For a quick review of your points:

A) Rule by a Dictator: no one pays any mind to the Separation of Government Powers, anymore. Checks, schmecks.

B) Extreme Nationalism: what bad could come of that?

C) Superiority of the nation's People: Jealous?

D) Militarism & Imperialism: when we militarily defeat countries, why don't we ever make those countries parts of us?


Hence, Biden's saying that Maga is only SEMI- fascist, turns out to have been a bit generous, of an appraisal.

 

you seem to forget Congress can do almost nothing without a president's signature

and Biden's Student loan forgiveness is a fraction of the Trump debt

 

You seem to have missed that the student loan forgiveness is all on Biden.

 

What fascist policies? On budgets, you must be thinking locally, since Bill Clinton wasn't a Republican.

Usually democrats increase taxes. Both parties spend too much, but at least democrats try to pay for it.

All policies are tools that can be used properly or improperly. Fundamentally, policy should have a net positive impact. It's not about intention, or the fact that there is a problem (see the failed alcohol prohibition). Socialistic policies aren't inherently bad or good, but perform better or worse than a free market depending on the context and goals. For innovation, capitalism generally does better. But for delivering healthcare or giving people equal access to education opportunities, socialism is the better tool.

 

Not really. The Biden administration is more fascist than Trump.

Biden supports depriving you of fossil fuels, gun rights and he's hiring IRS agents to train with fire arms. You are forbidden from questioning the legitimacy of his presidency on social media no matter how legitimate you think it is. His sons dirty dealings in the Ukraine are covered up and anybody that talks about them is denied platform. Biden is planning on robbing from the poor to give to the rich via student loan forgiveness. Buying votes and just making the universities increase tuition by 10k

Maybe you're calling Trump a fascist to mask the fascistic behaviors of your own party.

 

Basically stealing money from the poor to give to universities.

 

Biden is stealing from the poor to give you the rich in order to buy votes.

 

and what did Trump do? Trump sent out checks, raised the debt more than any President in history had in one term by far

 

Only after idiot governments of states locked down. What are people just supposed to live without money? Prosecuting each state government for those crimes would take some time.

 

you mean the States followed the Trump shutdown and reopen guidelines

yes, the Trump shutdown was bad, we all get that

 

So you understand why the money had to be spent.

Biden is just buying votes and making tuition go up. All while stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

 

Trump was just buying votes, he even wanted to sign the checks