Trumps an Idiot; Democrats too far left; where do you go?

We have rank choice voting. It essentially lets you have a run off election on the initial ballot if the top two vote getters don’t have 50% or more of the votes. You vote for all the candidates in order of preference. But, you also have the option of just voting for one and only one, or just two, or any number of candidates you want.

It’s a mathematically sound way of involving several parties and giving all candidates a fair chance with less bias.

 

Allow me to clarify then. Sorry in advance for length of post.

Nationalistic authoritarianism is in my words a turn towards favoring the nationals or natives with often a negative, or xenophobic view of non nationals with a use of rule by law that is unaccountable. The republican party has backed travel bans to Muslim majority nations, building a wall along the southern border, decreasing the number of asylum seekers, reversal of DACA, protectionist tariffs, leaving international agreements and international bodies, etc. These are all very obviously nationalistic turns.

Second, on authoritarianism. Republicans have largely embraced an unchecked presidency that is unaccountable to anything. Congress, the courts, the DOJ, the IC, the free press, the elections themselves - all can be ignored if they disfavor "our guy". Trump has far too much popularity within the R party. To the point where such a large percentage of his base will believe anything he says, which has given him free reign to run a lawless presidency. The R party has been largely complicit with his undermining of the rule of law. His expectation that the DOJ should serve HIM, that they are there to protect HIM, to go after HIS enemies. Not criminals mind you, just his political enemies. To his friends, the people who didn't flip, the loyal, they receive dropped charges, reduced charges, and pardons. To the disloyal, harsher sentences, and rearrests.

The base is all too willing to ignore this malfeasance. Why those loyal supporters who lied to investigators were just victims of such an obviously biased WITCH HUNT! The man couldn't have done anything wrong, which is why it's ok to lie to the investigators to cover up his innocuous behavior. But his political enemies, no, no, you see those are the real crooks. They have D's in front of their name so you know they did something. You have people who think like this, who post on this board that Trump should just declare martial law. You have other people that when pressed to assume the election was honest, then what use is the election since the D collectivists are so dangerous that they cannot be allowed to win. We'd be better off with a benevolent dictator who will protect our rights.

So, yes, the R base which has been indoctrinated to only believe that which supports their ideology, to ignore literally everything else as "fake news", who now have been so radicalized to think that losing an election means that we shouldn't have elections anymore. The R elected officials who are so fearful of the anointed one, that they dare not question even his ridiculous rigged election hoax. The R politicians who care not for the damage their words do, and see only an opportunity for accumulation of personal power. They are all on an absolute sprint towards authoritarianism.

On your complaints of the D party, yes, several bad policies you noted. Affirmative action, Green New Deal, lockdowns, lack of coming out more strongly against riots. Although I do support phasing out fossil fuels. And I did like that their police reform bill would have ended qualified immunity. But don't kid yourself, the R's and D's are basically the same with regards to policy. Both support the Drug War. Both support the sex offender registry. Both support the Patriot Act and the TSA. No serious push to fix patent laws to stop evergreening, thicketing, patent trolls, and copyright lasting 70 years after the death of the author. Endless deficits no matter who's in charge. R's failed to repeal and replace ACA or pass any kind of immigration reform when they had both houses and the presidency. Neither party ever closes executive departments. Neither party will ever end subsidies, bail outs, stimulus, and fiat currency. Neither party will ever end eminent domain, and no significant push to end asset forfeiture. Neither party will end or even scale back medicaid / medicare / social security. Things you point out other than maybe lockdowns are such small potatoes compared to the big things both parties are complicit in.

Moreover, all of these policies combined pale in comparison when one party is offering dictatorship. The only thing D's could potentially offer that would be as bad as dictatorship is communism and banning all private business. And while there is an anti-capitalist sentiment in the D party, even Bernie Sanders isn't going that far. The "radical socialism" posited by the the RW media is overblown and doesn't represent the mainstream of the D party right now. Theirs is a march towards serfdom. Not a sprint.

So yes, I am harsher on the R party. It has largely been taken over by Trump. All the party appears to stand for right now is "we support Trump no matter what". And all that appears to be from my end is dictatorship with a specified despot.

 

Thanks, I’ll check out your thread and contribute to it later.

I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting rid of the two party system is it makes it too easy for a lot of people to vote for their main issues without having to think. If they are pro choice, in favor of stricter gun control , and certain other things , they just vote Democratic , no matter who it’s is. If they have opposite opinions on those issues they vote straight republican, nice and easy, no thought required. For better or worse it seems like a lot of Americans, especially the base of both parties are really into their core issues and want a simple way to vote for them.

One thing Trump has been good at is throwing a lot of red meat to his base. Playing to those hardcore issues he knew were important to his most ardent supporters. Conservative Justices was a big crowd favorite to his base. I think he jumped the shark with his stupid photo op picture, after he had the protestors removed near the Whitehouse, when he was trying to pretend to be a good Christian. He was always trying to feed his hardcore base, whether he believed in what he was doing or not. No matter how stupid or insincere it seemed, he checked the boxes they wanted. It kept many of them happy and loyal to the end, and apparently beyond for some.

 

If you don’t know math, you’d be skeptical. There is no more a way to explain this to people who are weak in math then there is to explain climate change to repugs who are science deniers. Let’s face it, repugs think the earth is less then 7000 years old. It’s like explaining physics to your pet dog as far as math or science is concerned. We just need to vote repugs out and move on.

Educated people learned long ago, they need to do their own research and educate themselves from reliable source to be convinced of anything. Repugs are afraid of anything different no matter how right it is. It’s scares the sht out of them.

Btw, if you did any research, you’d know the country is the USA. It’s already being done is some of our states.

 

We do it in our state through a local referendum that many of us worked for. You only get to that point by educating people who are willing to learn. Unfortunately, the Republican Party is convinced that any education is bad. Just forget them. We have a larger group of sane people otherwise. Educate them and get them out to enact this system of voting.

Remember one thing. The white base of the Republican Party is NOT INTERESTED IN FAIR ELECTIONS.

 

All pretty much on point - except for one thing - Blue is not sane - and certainly not interested in education - other than indoctrination into collectivist false narrative.

 

That’s a tough one. It would probably take Congress and other law makers to do it, and since they are the problem, it’s hard to see them solving it in any large scale way. Some of the only things that all of Congress agrees on are things like voting themselves raises, or anything that keeps their power in tact.

Probably would take a large grass roots measure and more candidates embracing it and declaring themselves independents. But, If they do that, they lose all the backing and money that they need to have a chance at success. Even a guy Bloomberg, who was the real deal , a proven leader with his own unlimited money needed to be part of a major party to feel like he could have a chance to win. Also Trump , who isn't really a Republican and had money of his own, needed to embrace and adopt many of the parties core issues to give him his one victory.

Many Americans are independents. It should be as major a party as the dems and pubs. I would like to see the independent party becoming more of a major force and viable party. But it’s a heavy lift, as the most prominent politician that officially calls himself an independent is Bernie Sanders, and he’s anything but independent. Maybe we’ll get it right someday.

 

Trumps an Idiot; Democrats too far left; where do you go?

I recommend you understand that voting fixes nothing, adapt to what government does to you and move forward with your life.

 

Most independents are somewhere in-between the ideologies of the two major parties. But perhaps not in the way you think. Most think of them as centrists. But most independents do have hard core beliefs. They end up being for some Democratic policies and for some Republican policies, but fail to pass either major party's litmus tests.

An example is one can be pro-choice and pro-2nd amendment at the same time. But the major parties want you to be either pro-choice and anti-second amendment or pro-life and pro-second amendment. They give you no leeway to disagree with their litmus tests for belonging. There's a myriad of other issues which both major parties expect their members to fall in line ideological with every issue with no disagreement. Hence they are driving folks out of both major parties as both major parties expect you to kowtow to their ideological views like mindless robots.

Neither can stand anyone disagreeing with even one of their ideological view points. You seen this with 3 pro life democratic incumbents in congress being challenged and losing in the democratic primaries only because they were pro-life. No room for disagreement. I did have a chuckle at that as all three winners in the democratic primaries lost in the general election.

I do think it is important to remember that independents don't have any common ideology. Some independents are way to the left of the democratic party, some way to the right of the Republican party, some in-between with more moderate views, but most will agree with one party or the other on a few issues and disagree on other issues which the two major parties have as their litmus tests.

 

Thats a defeatist attitude , but I agree with you. Personally I have done well no matter who’s at the wheel. Work hard, keep your nose clean and you will be fine, hopefully it stays that way.

 

You can’t be serious. Get real. At least the left believes in science. Trump and his insane right wing, just listens to Hannity.
Tell us why the right thinks every university, country and research facility is wrong about climate change, gun control, economics and healthcare. What makes the MINORITY conservatives in the US so ****ing insane when it comes to math and science. That’s all taught ( math and science) in every accredited school in the United States. Yet, the right seems to think the politics of White minority is more important then science and math.

 

The majority of Americans are with the left on healthcare, climate change, immigration and economics. The right rarely wins national elections with a majority. They depend upon a white apartheid minority, voter suppression and cheating.

 

The republicans don’t care how hard people work. They only care about the donor class. All those tax cuts by the right when in power, gave 80% plus to the rich and the rest to the middle class. The next tax increase for the middle will be at the hands of republicans. ? Why ? Because their last tax cut bill was only temporary for the middle class, so it is due to sunset, but permanent for the rich. That’s hilarious. The rights support comes from white middle class they are fking over.

 

Funny. That sounds like the entire educational community conspires to do what ? Teach a false narrative ? Exactly what is the false narrative they are trying to teach ? All 3400 world wide universities, our military, Nasa and everyother research facility in the world. What’s the false narrative ?

 

After a half century of voting with things only getting worse it is easy to feel defeated. But, like you, I adapt to it.

 

What's a repug? Is that some kind of intellectual term?

 

Both major parties depend on how the independents vote. Neither is big enough or have a base large enough to win elections on its own. Last figures from Gallup showed 31% of the electorate as Democrats, 29% as republicans with 38% being independents.

Biden won because he won the independent vote, Trump won in 2016 because he won the independent vote, Obama in 2008 won the independent vote, G.W. Bush won in 2000 and 04, won the independent vote, Bill Clinton in 1992 and 96 won the independent vote.

I would be aware independents or very few independents pay attention to the daily grind of politics. They're too busy taking care of family, making ends meet, rooting for their favorite sports team, watching their favorite TV program and the like. They rarely pay any attention to politics at all until close to an election.

Yet, it is these folks that decide national elections, not either parties base.

 

I hear you. Good post. Let’s add some context though.
There is a number of independents who aren’t Dems for the simple reason, Dems are too conservative and compromise like Biden will, with a party that’s wrong on every major issue. Everyother Free industrialized nation has universal healthcare, believes in climate change and has common sense Gun laws. It’s a joke that the right actually thinks we have progressives. Our progressives are really moderates in the real world. Everyone else’s free world conservatives support common sense gun laws, climate change mitigation and universal healthcare.

It’s absolutely laughable having a discussion about Dems being too liberal. If being liberal is believing in science, wtf does that make conservatives ?
Our gop is a follower of fascist regimes where minority rules.

 

As one who voted for Obama - and can't stand the religious right (which is like 90% of the GOP Leadership it seems) - It can't be more serious.

Much of what you say above is true - some is platitudinal gibberish .. - economics and healthcare being the gibberish and unfortunately of late the left is also going away from science .. particularly of the environmental kind - of which I know a little about having worked for over a decade using innovative technology such as bioremediation to clean up hydrocarbon contaminated sites.

I am hard core pro choice - for sound immigration policy (as in the kids that were born here are citizens IMO) - and am a strong believer in essential liberty - although don't think that gives one the right to carry and uzi into a crowded theatre .. defend your home all you like .. but - in public there are limits..

Oh - and I can't stand Trump - the difference being that my arguments against him are way better than yours.

So what is so bad about Blue that I would hold my nose big time .. and vote Red.

Is it A) Blue are now the new Neocon's .. B) Blue are now Anti ACLU C) Blue is now the anti Environment Party

D) all of the above.

If you answered D .. you would be correct .. but .. which do you think was the straw that broke this camel's back ? Prior to me straightening you out on healthcare and the economy.

 

There are many false narratives coming out the educational community - universities - military.

It is laughable that you included the Military in there .. as in "The Pentagon" .. whose Job it is to peddle false narrative.

How about we start there and move on .. how many would you like ? .. and how long was it that you spent in that Cave - that you are not aware of these things ?

 

Then you shouldn’t have any problem listing them.
What are they for the military, education,NASA, Govt agencies and university.complex AND all major corps world wide.
You do get even universities from competing countries had science that completely agreed, as science can transcend politics. So let’s hear these false narratives.

 

I can’t stand the religious right when it disregards science in favor of made up stuff. That’s it. It can’t be more serious then to promote guessing, opinions and greed over science.

 

Biden is about as middle of the road as you can get.
You have to stop using the radical right as your yard stick. Moving back to a reality based nation will be the first thing we need to do.
Its clear that we have been moving further to the right every year and that is not working.
Time to swing the political pendulum back to the center where it belongs, trouble is from waaaay out here in the bizzaro world of the far right, the center looks too far to the left.