.22lr, effective round for self defense

I agree. Two well placed rounds. A double tap is more efficient and devastating than singular hits on body mass. The problem arises with the shooter. Most people don't practice enough to be that proficient. SF people normally shoot 10,000 rounds a year to achieve their expertise. The average gun owner may only shoot 20 to 100 rounds a year. Even at my age, I shoot an average of 2,000 rounds a year with various calibers and weapons.

 

One question, why then do policemen everywhere not carry the .22 lr? Are they just ill informed?

I have learned and been surprised by the power the .22 lr does have, but it doesn't change an almost unanimous theory on which caliber to use for self defense.

 

For the same reason many moved from 9mm to 40 caliber rounds. Penetration and particularly windshield penetration. The 9mm had trouble penetrating an angled windshield but the 40 does a better job.

 

Yet all other sources (aside from an annymous YouTube comment) state something very different, that other cartridges are more effective.

 

and a rocket launcher is more effective than a shotgun...

the video, stats, and actual use by the Mossad/sky marshalls, IDF, Spetznaz , Mafia-these are professionals who actually have done the job, I would think they trump any youtube expert wannabe's opinion...and the ranges tested in the video 9' to 30' are realistic for in-home intruder defense...

http://www.tactical-life.com/tactical-weapons/israeli-mossad-22-lrs/
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/another-made-in-usa-“less-lethal”-weapon-kills-in-palestine.html
http://www.members.shaw.ca/spetsnazmod/w_sniping.html

as someone has already posted caliber size is just a dick measuring contest...

I was at a gun show on the weekend and was amazed to see 50 cal sniper rifles, wtf does anyone do with one of those? pointless overkill...

 

I am not talking caliber size, I am talking energy. A .45ACP is about 3-5x (depending on the cartridge) more powerful than a .22LR. Mentioning the Mafia, IDF, Spetznaz, whatever, is silly, they use the .22LR for limited purposes. .22LR is easy to suppressed, .45ACP isn't. 5.56 NATO less so. I don't see any military fielding the .22LR as a main weapon. That should be telling.

You can't fight physics. Anyone who recommends the .22LR over a legitimate self-defense cartridge is a moron.

 

limited purposes? ya,killing people...personal/home intruder defense is not military it's civilians vs civilians, that professionals use it to suppress terrorists, military forces use it in close combat sniping and it's used as an assassination tool is definitive...your opinion on the matter is amateurishly naive in comparison...

you can't fight the "real expert killers" practical knowledge and use of .22, anyone who would is a moron.

 

lol

Yet no police force or military force fields the .22 as a primary anything.

Please, continue living in your fantasy.

I will gladly use a handgun that is 4x times more powerful and a rifle that is 10x more powerful. I will use what is recommended by self-defense experts, you can go play mafia hitman in the backyard.

 

yes but besides being rather messy they are fun to fire eh?

All trained assassins eh?

http://www.tactical-life.com/tactical-weapons/israeli-mossad-22-lrs/
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/another-made-in-usa-“less-lethal”-weapon-kills-in-palestine.html
http://www.members.shaw.ca/spetsnazmod/w_sniping.html

yet bigger dick are quite effective at their job eh?

shoot it at bad guys at very long ranges, a feat that a 22lr is incapable of eh? Different choices for different circumstances. The true mark of a fool is to try and have a one size fits all solution to a variable problem.....eh?

 

Wyly, I wish you had any idea how stupid your argument is. Do yourself a favor and go to another gun show and start preaching to people about how a .22 lr is your choice for self defense. I hope you realize that nobody here is saying that the .22 lr isn't deadly, couldn't be used in self defense, or that it can't cause large amounts of damage. We're saying that given all options, it is almost the least effective choice. The reason military use it in close combat situations is because it is so under powered that there is less chance that it goes through the bad guy and kills a bystander on the other side.

Sayin calibur/case size is only about who has the bigger wang is also just as stupid as saying that people that use larger diameter ropes to rock climb are only stroking their own ego. Actually there is a structural advantage in using a different size rope/caliber, and physics proves it.

 

A .22 is better than nothing, and there is a reason why neither police, military, or self-defense experts advocate the .22 for self-defense.

Energy = lethality.

You can't argue physics.

 

While a .22 LR or Mag can be used, I will stick with my .308, 12g, .44Mag, 45 ACP, .357 Mag, or 9mm before reaching for either my 5.56 mm or 22 LR. For in-home a 12g is best, think about those that live next to ya, I do not have that issue.

 

You wouldn't use a handgun if you could use a rifle. The caliber argument gets silly at times. Most all police forces would not use a 22, much less a 9mm mainly because of it's lack of penetration through things like windshields, the reason many went to .40s.

A 22 can kill you just as quick as a .45 but is less likely to penetrate covering.

 

You can't argue physics.

A .22 can do whatever. A projectile with more energy is more likely to do what ever.

You don't have to worry much about over penetration with a .45 and you get five times the energy.

 

Hate to break it to you guy, but the 22 cal is not an affective combat round, with an max affective range of 150 feet. Hell, the 5.56 barley stops people.

I'm pretty sure you've been told this like 800 times, but you really have no clue about ballistics.

 

I agree, everyone should consider their environment when choosing a firearm for home defense. The 22 mag. is not of much concern in my case though, my house is brick with plaster lath walls.

Just some FYI for those who've been keeping up with the thread. I still intend to get a pmr-30, and will be fully confident in it's effectiveness as a defensive weapon.

 

actually I did just that and everyone I spoke with agreed...it's a dick measuring contest nothing more...

what's this< you're making my argument for me!... now you're advocating common sense preaching the virtues of a .22...why would you use a large caliber that could kill family members in another room, a neighbour, or innocent bystanders in a public place...

that's exactly what it is and "who's got a bigger dick" was the most common comment at the gun show...proper equipment for the job, you don't need a shotgun to kill a cockroach when a shoe will do the job, a .22 in confined spaces vs civilians will do the job just fine...

 

hate to break it to you guy, but self defense is not combat...the video posted already debunks your 150' claim...and self/home defense will involve ranges of 0-30' at most...

800 times? your ability to comprehend the issues or data is as weak as the 800 apparently...

 

You have the right to believe and do as you wish sir. Here's to hoping none of us ever have to test these theories.

 

that's the entire point, police and military need calibers that shoot through cover and armor at distances which are not issues for personal defense...if I were to use a caliber that could penetrate a body and walls then my entire family plus my neighbors are put at risk by me...there have been a few deaths where I live where the dead/wounded were unintended victims of stray bullets penetrating walls...

 

Would I carry a 22? Yes, if I had nothing else but normally I would not.

Anymore I am concerned with the legal issues associated if you have to use your firearm for defense. Every bullet comes with a lawyer. I carry a 9mm with commercial loads. A lawyer cannot say that I am using something more powerful than the police and with bullets that will blow your head clean off. I can get accurate followup shots with the 9 and have plenty of rounds.

 

The thread says .22lr but the OP is talking about .22 WMR. There is a difference between the two.

I personally would prefer a 9mm or a .40 for defense, but if someone else can effectively defend themselves with a .22lr and they want to use it then by all means they won't hear a complaint from me. Go with what works for you.

Video

This video uses an old Army standard for determining lethality and they found a ruger 10/22 can be potentially lethal at quite a distance. Shot placement is still key and all, but defense debates aside I thought other firearms enthusiasts might find that interesting to watch as well.

 

A good story to share from 2008 about using .22 caliber for self-defense. Normally I'd edit down this news story but its such a fun story that I've decided to post it in its entirety.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1962059/posts

As I've mentioned I have a 12 gauge shot gun and not a .22 but if a bunch of retired Green Berets believe that a .22 caliber pistol was good enough for self-defense, even when a perfect shot between the eyes bounced off the guys skull, then I won't argue with them. LOL

 

The biggest advantage to the .22lr for self defense is that it is incredibly cheap to shoot so you can achieve high proficiency without spending a fortune. Some of my friends have great larger caliber guns they never shoot due to cost.

I can go to my backyard and shoot a thousand rounds for less than the cost of dinner.

For close range in home use a sawed off shotgun. To shoot hogs I have scoped 270 that works great at 150 yards. But for fun and outside self defense .22lr.