America Has Turned its Back on God

Working and not sucking the tit is on the individual. It is written that one should work as I posted. You can argue this all you want but the fact is to be charitable to a person is not to adopt them.

 

Sadly, you are probably correct. But in reality, how much should it really cost? Honestly, a physical exam only costs a couple hundred bucks, and that same doctor could easily go over a healthy persons chart in a matter of a few minutes. Why would that require "an enormous increase in government staff"?

Why don't we simply place the burden of proof on the individual seeking the benefits? If you are physically disabled in some way, you shouldn't have a hard time providing proof.

 

Are you a Christian? If not why mention these things?

 

As I said, it is the dynamics of the various fora. Most of the fora you visit might be places like this one, where there are mostly Conservatives participating... and where many who are Liberal are consistently attacked in one way or another. This forum isn't like a one-on-one, person-to-person... where I can make it much more clear where I stand using more than a few words on a screen.

The reasons people vote as they do are varied; and yes, it's very complex when you get down to analyzing the same.

Sometimes it may be ignorance... but there are myriad reasons as to why one may choose the party or candidate they do. (That's why they pay certain people a LOT of money to make certain 'educated' guesses about that.)

 

Here are a few verses that are a little more on-point than the list which was posted earlier. These address the actual question "Should Christians feed the poor, and otherwise take care of them?"

This first group doesn't specifically command believers to feed the poor. Instead, they speak emphatically to God's concern for the poor. Maybe you disagree, but from my standpoint, if poor people are important to God, they'd darn well better be important to me:

Ps. 140:12. I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and justice for the poor.

Is. 25:4. For You have been a defense for the helpless, a defense for the needy in his distress.

Ps. 10:14. The unfortunate commits himself to You; You have been the helper of the orphan... O LORD, You have heard the desire of the humble; You will strengthen their heart, You will incline Your ear to vindicate the orphan and the oppressed.

Is 41:17. The affl

 

And:

2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

1 Timothy 5:8 ESV
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Proverbs 10:4 ESV
A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

Proverbs 19:24 ESV
The sluggard buries his hand in the dish and will not even bring it back to his mouth.

Proverbs 6:9-11 ESV
How long will you lie there, O sluggard? When will you arise from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man.

Proverbs 13:4 ESV
The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.

Psalm 50:17 ESV
For you hate discipline, and you cast my words behind you.

Proverbs 6:6 ESV
Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise.

We should help those who can not help themselves. If one is of able body they can contribute. If one chooses to nurse the tit of charity one may starve. As it is written.

 

Yep. I was raised to believe those things you've shared above.

 

Ya gotta love it when atheists cherry pick Bible verses in a lame attempt to prove their "point".

I noticed the verses cited contain words like, "helpless", "needy", and "unfortunate". I don't see words like, "lazy", "opportunist", etc being used. And in fact, as I stated before, the Bible admonishes those who do not pull their own weight.

Still waiting for an answer to my question:

Anyone? Just one compelling reason. Can't even come up with one?

 

You mean even many 'devout' "Christians" don't do that?!

 

That's exactly what I mean. Which is not to say many who claim to be Christians don't do that.

 

I could write a country-tune to that... something southern-style. Like this: http://tunes.digitalock.com/pictureofmewithoutyou.mp3

In fact, I tend to agree, which is why I'm curious how/why the most God-fearing Christians in the nation got discombooberated into following demons working from Wall Street.

How did you end up in the same political party as Satan?

Somewhere, somehow, somewhen the line between good and evil got twisted 45 degrees drawing a line from midnight to 6 AM, when the reality is it's a line from 9 to 3.

Above is good, and below is evil. Above is ahead, and below is behind.

I think the twist came from there being different ideas how to do good, and different ideas how to do evil, leading to the trickster conning people into thinking it's a line from 12 to 6.

On the bottom half is evil-left like Stalin, and on bottom right is evil-right like Hitler.

On the top half we have good-right of do-gooders annoyed by moron-regulators getting in their way, and on top-left we have caregivers likeing how efficient it is to cooperate.

You know... you *could* tweek immigration policies to let in only the good, regardless of cultural/religous history, instead of just who's rich. Imagine letting in good Bedoins with their camels. You'd have the most God-fearing warriors living in the south-west deserts, willing to die to defend the land (just make sure they're good, because historically, going all the way back to ancient Greece, Bedoins were considered to be psychopathic-jerks).

 

Gotta love it when the entire Christian community lacks any understanding of Jubilee. Jesus was a socialist... one of the reasons we aren't on the same page. He goes to the beach and gives the crowd bread... goes to a wedding and turns the water into wine... not that there was no wine, but it was all drunk... this was bonus wine... for... the poor. Jesus tells me to give all of my possessions to the poor, and follow Him... evidently the poor aren't cool enough to be righteous because they have nothing to give up... they are meant to be in receivership of the camel needle man's possessions...

As to your question...

I ask the same thing about bankers. I work 100hrs a week. Some people dig ditches, tar roofs. Some get hookers and blow for politicians. I worked for a .com before the bubble burst. They made a lot of money... suddenly politicians were throwing themselves at the glass doors to our building in Mountain View like finches... collecting at the base... "We have a lot of new regulations that have to come down with all of this technology... so... we need your help to explain what this is so we can make good laws governing it... we don't want to make bad laws... so we need your help..."

"By the way, how much do you think you can raise for our re-election campaign?"

Spare me the argument of the "lazy".

Can you give me a single compelling reason as to why lazy able bodied people should receive the unwilling largess of hard working people?

(*)(*)(*)(*) piety. It doesn't suit.

 

Well, regardless of mere perceptions begin expressed... I think it is important for reasons of variances in the same, that we promote LAW which is not based upon religious beliefs. I think the greatest forms of governance come from addressing the most practical needs of human beings and allowing for the greatest amount of individual freedom.

I can think of many problems with most religions, especially where it relates to perceptions of what people are 'free' or 'allowed' to do. For that reason, I surely want Separation of Church and State to remain in place.

I don't mind individuals or groups turning to God; I NEVER want to live in a society where God or beliefs about Him are IMPOSED upon individuals.

 

Archer, I notice that in both of your lists, you rely heavily on Proverbs. These are addressed to the idle person himself, and certainly we can all agree that idleness isn't a good choice.

However, that's not the question. The question is: When confronted with another person's poverty, what should be the Christian's response? Only the Thessalonians verse seems to address this question. (Even the Timothy verse doesn't say "Let them starve.")

But as always in Paul's writings, context is critical. He frequently gave specific commands to specific congregations of the infant church as they were working out what it meant to be Christians. In another place he says that in church, women should sit down and shut up, again a specific command to deal with a specific problem at a specific church. Not many believe it should be taken literally for all modern churches.

In 1st Thessalonians 3:16, Paul doesn't tell us the reason for his rebuke, but most scholars don't believe it was because they were just a lazy group of people. There are two major schools of thought: First, that they were so excited at what they believed was the imminent return of Christ that they abandoned their normal work to wait for Him. Paul is telling them, "Hey! Get back to work!" The other line of thought is that there were those who were striving for positions of leadership in the church, and those who were so busy exercising newly-discovered spiritual gifts that they neglected their normal work and expected the church to support them. Paul is telling them that these spiritual gifts are not to replace one's normal work, but to be integrated into it.

There are no commentators who interpret this verse to mean that Christians can neglect God's command to help the needy.

 

If you're referring to me, I am not an atheist. I am a born-again, Bible-believing Christian. Triune God, saving power of Jesus' death and resurrection, divine inspiration of the Living Word, all of it. Went to church this very morning.

 

In my earlier post, I cut off some of the most important parts. Here's the rest:

And here are some of God's commandments to us. This is just a short list. God's commands that we care for the needy are SPECIFIC AND NUMEROUS AND CLEAR. He does not give US the freedom to decide who are the "deserving" poor and who are not. God is unambiguous: Help the needy. Period.

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.

Lev. 19:19ff. Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.

Prov. 31:8ff. [Commandment to kings.] Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Is. 58:66ff. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Jer. 22:3. Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Luke 12:33. "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys."

Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

 

Jesus was not a socialist. He never advocated anything other than giving of one's own free will.

Ironically, libs are constantly lecturing us about how we have no idea what socialism is.

Please produce one Bible verse where Jesus promotes the idea of nationalizing anything.

 

I'm sure Jerimiah Wright went to church this morning too. Do you advocate abortion, gay marriage, etc?

 

You're presuming to judge my faith? Just... wow

 

Heh. Want me to tell you what the most religious countries in Europe are?

http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2011/05/non-religious-nations-have-higher-quality-of-life/

This is the funniest thing about you god-botherers who assume that god will punish us if we stop believing. The most secular countries on the planet are among the very best to live in; the most religious are often oppressive (*)(*)(*)(*)holes (with exceptions, of course). The correlation is exactly the opposite of what you say it should be.

 

You can post it again and again and people start responding with other quotes, which support their point. The thing is, the Bible contradicts itself on many topics, so it's always cherry picking whether you believe one or the other quote. Who's to say which the "real" message is? We can't ask anyone who has been included in the process of creating it. And even if we could, they couldn't prove their point, unless having a statement from God himself/herself/itself.

 

Hussein Obama is the agent of God's judgment on America.

 

I'm not judging anything. Let's just say I'm skeptical. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

 

You won't prove that and you can't.

 

No there is no contradiction only a lack of understanding.