Arizona same-sex married couples are seeking adoptions

Please provide proof of this. I think your exaggerations are not going way to far. You do realize how many pride marches there are in various states and they are not welcome to March in them.

 

No you give me a break. You are going to use what was happening at the time of Stonewall to negate what happened in 1994? And here is more:

That some of these people have tried to align themselves with the LGBT movement proves nothing about gays and there is overwhelming evidence that the vast majority of individual gays and LGBT organization distanced them selves. Try again

 

They had to distance themselves because they are so closely aligned.

 

Yes, and the KKK used to be closely aligned with the GOP in the south. The GOP distanced themselves from the KKK eventually.
So what does this have to do with TODAY'S LGBT group?

 

Extreme exaggerations and misnomers are all you will receive from a select special few here.
Be gentle with them

 

That was not my quote. That was the quote of Harry Hay and up until that point NAMBLA WAS in every gay pride parade. Harry Hay was also the founder of the homosexual activism movement in America. He was also a staunch supporter of gay men having the right to have sex with little boys.

Of course, many of the major proponents of homosexuality have also been involved in the minor-attracted persons movement... Including Frank Kameny (one of the most prominent figures in the gay rights movement) and Allen Ginsberg.

 

Of COURSE they rejected the NAMBLA group because they recognized that as long as they are associated with child sex they will NEVER gain support for their cause. However, that doesn't take away from the FACT that the homosexual rights movement was spawned from the EXACT same source as the child sex movement in America. Furthermore, the two movements went HAND IN HAND with one another for decades. Their members comingled they had support from the same groups and were founded by the same people (ie Harry Hay).

Harry Hay actually pointed it out. He said that the gay movement and the child sex movement are irrevocably intertwined and will ALWAYS be intertwined. He stated that the reason the gay movement has shunned the child sex portion of their group is because they believe that they'll never gain acceptance for homosexuality as long as child sex is attached. So their tactic was to shun the child sex portion of their movement until they can get full acceptance (or as full as possible) for homosexuality and THEN bring back the child sex movement once they've established that having gay sex with adults is acceptable.

And that's exactly what they're doing.

You want to ignore that part of the homosexual movements history because it makes them look bad, but too bad for you it will never change the historical fact that the American homosexuality rights movement and the child sex movement are two sides of the same coin.

 

Ridiculous. . .again!
There are MANY MORE heterosexual parents who molest their children (and their children's friends) than homosexual parents!

You are so off the deep end here!

 

Well you can keep carrying on about this crap. I don't care what the pervert Harry Hey said. What I care about is present day reality. You owe me an assignment. I asked you to provide statistics on child sexual abuse perpetrated by gay people who adopted children. Unless you can provide hard facts showing that sexual abuse of adopted children, or any children in the care of gay people is an actual problem, all of this is just useless crap.

You might recall that I worked in an adoption agency for 26 years and placed many children with gay men and lesbians with no problems. If there were any problems we would have known because these families remained under supervision. The reality of what the actual outcomes are is the only thing that matters, not this alleged NAMBLA crap. It's ancient history that has been revised by you to fit your bigoted agenda. That is despicable. I'll be waiting for your evidence that sexual abuse by gay adoptive parents is ramped. And I'm not talking about a few anecdotal cases. Of course you could come up with some. It happens. I want you to prove-statistically that gays and lesbians are abusing their children at a higher rate than others. Do it or shut up.

 

New evidence poses problems for those who think homosexuals should be allowed to serve as foster-parents. 35% of foster- parents who sexually abused their foster-children in the last three years engaged in homosexuality.

From 2003 through 2005, a third of foster-parent molestations of foster-children were homosexual. That’s the official tally from two states -- Illinois and Minnesota -- that permit homosexual foster-parents. For the approximately 30,000 children/year in foster- care at some point in the two states:

•12 foster mothers sexually abused their charges: 9 (75%) assaulted foster-daughters, 3 (25%) raped foster-sons.

•28 foster-fathers sexually abused their charges: 23 (82%) assaulted foster-daughters, 5 (18%) raped foster-sons.


Overall, 26 (65%) of foster-parent perpetrators engaged in heterosexuality and 14 (35%) in homosexuality with their charges. Most molestation by foster-mothers was homosexual; most by foster- fathers heterosexual.

Virtually all studies indicate that homosexuals comprise between 2% to 4% of adults. Thus the figures above indicate a disproportionate amount of homosexual molestation.

Dr. Paul Cameron, Chairman of the Family Research Institute, a Colorado Springs think-tank, co-authored the study. Dr. Cameron noted: “These 40 foster- parent molesters, given the limited official information about molestations of foster children, comprise one of the largest samples in the literature on this issue. And the evidence keeps on accumulating, indicating that those who engage in homosexuality are much more apt to sexually abuse their foster-children. Children are our most important possession, they must be protected form predators. One way to do that is to bar homosexuals from fostering or adopting children.”

The study from data provided by the IL Dept Children & Family Services and MN Dept of Human Services appears in a rebuttal to gay marriage in the August, 2006 issue of Pediatrics on-line http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/eletters/118/ 1/349. About half a million children experience foster care per year, so this is about a 6% sample.

----------------------------------------------

I feel sorry for the children whose lives you've ruined.

 

The Family Research Institute is a homophobic right wing fundamentalist Christian advocacy group. It was founded in 1982 as the Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality (ISIS) by Dr. Paul Cameron, and is classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

I have to admit, your source fits you - and your narrative. Also your link does not work.

Their statistics on the homosexual percentage is also suspect:

So a hate group as a source and flawed statistics are all you have left. I thought gay men were the dangerous ones that we needed to protect our children from. Seems like it is women and heterosexual men!

 

And who says they're a hate group? The Southern Poverty Law Center? And the reason they're a hate group? Because they say things that homosexuals don't like.

Are you going to attempt to refute the information or just attack the individual?

By the way, why is it that a conservative Christian group with accredited individual's performing the research unacceptable, but a conclusion coming from a self-described "internationally recognized authority on sexual prejudice (also called homophobia), hate crimes, and AIDS stigma" and also an openly practicing homosexual (which is CLEARLY a biased source) is perfectly acceptable?

And by the way, do you know what the "veiled" method is? It's a method that the authors of that study created and NOBODY outside of that study has ever used it (that I could find). That study you sourced is absolutely laughable. Why don't you tell me how the "veiled method" works.

 

I have read numerous pieces from the FRI, FRC, AFA, etcetera. They use flawed statistics and manipulate research papers to promote an agenda. The founder is a supporter of the death penalty to "punish gays".

In 1983, the American Psychological Association expelled Cameron for non-cooperation with an ethics investigation. Position statements issued by the American Sociological Association, Canadian Psychological Association and the Nebraska Psychological Association have accused Cameron of misrepresenting social science research.

I am sure you idolize this upstanding individual. They are obviously a non-biased organization... Is this really all you have? Using this kind of blatant crap to justify denying others rights is a new low.

And I would love to discuss your source, unfortunately you didn't provide one so instead I will question the piece of information I have at my disposal; the FRI (fka ISIS).

Per my source on the veiled method:

So basically an anonymous polling method... Laughable indeed

Here is another research study using similar testing methods:

 

If you have an issue with the statistics then present the statistics that are wrong. But you don't have an issue with the statistics, you have an issue with the source.

I've read that... I've also tried to find exactly what he said that was misrepresented or incorrect. If you can provide it, then please do so.

No it's MORE than an anonymous polling method. If you read the first method provided privacy and anonymity. The veiled method goes further than that and makes INFERENCES from the answers of the respondent. For instance they give two participants 5 questions... the first participant receives 4 of the questions as a group and told to circle how many of those 4 statements applied to him. He then had a 5th question at the bottom like "Do you consider yourself a heterosexual? Mark Yes/No." The second participant is given all 5 of the questions (including the heterosexual question) as a group and told to circle how many of those 5 statements applied to him.

They then inferred, by comparing the two groups that because we have a higher average in the "veiled" (or as I like to call it the "bull(*)(*)(*)(*)") method that must mean that we have more people who are not heterosexual".

Regardless, the study admits it's not representative of the total population and included participants who were far more liberal than conservative.

 

And what does ANY of that have to do with the movement of the LGBT TODAY?

The GOP used to be closely tied with the KKK as well. Do you still hold the GOP as KKK supporters?

 

Uhhh I think you mean the democrats used to be closely tied to the KKK... but regardless, the problem with the LGBT movement today is that they're dishonest. They know that they were founded in concert with the child sex movement. They KNOW that MANY homosexuals (an inordinate amount) support sex with underage children. They know that their academic journals on homosexuality have been used to promote sex with children. They know that many of the leaders of the homosexual movement have either participated in or promoted these other perversions like child sex and bestiality. They know that the largest organizations on earth that support child-sex, such as NAMBLA, are exclusively homosexual organizations. They know that there's a massive gay underage sex trade in the world.

But see, they don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about any of that. They don't care that they're putting children at risk. They don't care that they're helping enable this kind of activity. They don't care that young people get hurt.... as long as they can get their rocks off legally and be able to silence anybody who talks bad about them.

All the children that get hurt, abused, molested be damned as long as they're able to get theirs. Because we cannot solve a problem unless the problem is identified. And they will do ANYTHING, make ANY argument to deflect blame away from homosexuality. There is no evidence on earth that could convince people like progressivepatriot or polydectes or columbine that homosexuality MIGHT be correlated with the rate of male on male child sexual abuse.

So even if homosexuality and child sexual abuse ARE correlated, they would rather have homosexuality legalized and normalized without the stigma than they would deal with the actual problem because they don't want the stigma. They used the APA to accomplish they're goal and the "minor-attracted persons" movement is using the EXACT same blueprint that the homosexuals used. It's not a coincidence. It's because they're simply a subset of the same (*)(*)(*)(*)ing group.

 

Just as the study you posted without a working link (which I have asked for twice now I believe) is not representative of the total population as it's study size is insignificant. 5 cases of in a sample size of this study is probably outside the margin of error.

And I posted two studies, both with working links I might add, but please seize on to anything you can...

Regardless of this, your study indicates the largest threat to children is heterosexual males, followed by homosexual females. If this was about the children and not about some statistically false ammo the largest percent of offends would be your concern.

Still waiting on a working link... Preferably from an unbiased source

 

Well this is typical of what you present as research. My first order od business was going to be to tear it apart but I see that others have already done an excellent job of that. It would appear that you don't even know what legitimate research is.

 

Here you go... the rest of the information on that study complete with statistics and citations.

Now... I'm well aware that you despise the source... but can you refute the information?

http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/are-over-a-third-of-foster-parent-molestations-homosexual/

- - - Updated - - -

And that goes for you too.

 

Usual lies that you cannot back up. The majority of homosexuals do NOT support that. The dishonesty is coming from your side on that one. Lets see the proof that the majority of homosexuals support sex with underage children. Proof has been asked for several times and you have not provided ANY that support your claims.

More lies from your side.

No LGBT leaders support sex with undersage children, just more lies from your side again. This is 2014, not 1970.

Sorry, but I have actually SEEN homosexuals raise children and they all turned out fine. See the problem with the bigots is that proof is not on their side. So they resort to lying as your side has.

That's because there are already homosexuals that HAVE raised children and they turn out fine despite the lies from your side. I love how you try and lump all pedophiles as homosexuals but the fact remains pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality.

No they are not correlated except by complete and utter dishonest morons who have NO clue about homosexuality and just want to continue their lies.

 

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/saycrle.pdf

The academic Journal of Homosexuality (vol. 20, nos. 1/2, l990) has also explored the issue of "Male Intergenerational Intimacy" in a generally approving manner. (Back issues of this journal can be ordered by calling Haworth Press at 1-800-HAWORTH.)

Discrimination Against a Minority
The vast majority of the articles in "Male Intergenerational Intimacy" argue that pedophilia should be freed from categorization as child abuse. In the foreword, Dr. Gunter Schmidt closes by saying that "Each individual case must be looked upon on its own merits...the threat to make all pedophile acts punishable by law can barely be labeled civilized...it implies discrimination and persecution of a minority and should be abolished." (p. 4)

Another group of writers (two psychologists and a lawyer--Sandfort, Brongersma, and Naerssen) argue that "the current social climate makes it rather difficult to look at [pedophilic] relationships in an objective way." (p.5)

"Born that Way and Can't Change"
In another article, "'The Main Thing is Being Wanted': Some Case Studies on Adult Sexual Experiences with Children," the author says that one-third of the pedophiles he has studied claimed that "their sexual desire for children is a natural part of their constitution. This desire is variously described as 'inbred,' 'innate,' 'a fact of nature,' 'inherent in them,' etc. The leitmotif of their accounts is 'this is me' or 'just the way I am.'"

The author concludes that the feeling of being "born a pedophile" makes them feel they cannot change, and therefore they are convinced they have the same right as other people to pursue the "natural" expression of their sexuality. (p. 133). The same author quotes a respondent's belief that "if adult-child sex was commonplace, the majority of it would surely be good for both participants." (p. 137).

Psychology Must Remain "Unbiased"
Another article ("Boy-Lovers and their Influence on Boys," by Edward Brongersma) complains about the "bias" which labels man-boy sex as "abuse, molestation, assault, " etc. Dr. Brongersma complains that researchers are unable to remain objective about pedophilia, saying "...many people...exhibit such violently emotional hostility toward boy-lovers because they fear their own...pedophile impulses." (p. l53).

Dr. Brongersma goes on to cite cases in which social workers achieved "miracles with apparently incorrigible young delinquents--not by preaching to them but by sleeping with them." He describes how these sexual relationships "did far more good than years in reformatories." (p. l6l).

He advises that the loving pedophile can offer a "companionship, security and protection" which neither peers nor parents can provide (p. l62) and goes on to say that parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a thief of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home..."

Children's Rights to Autonomy
Another writer, David Thorstad, argues for "freedom of sexual expression for young people and children" (p. 255) and quotes a lesbian who talks of the "rich texture" of her experiences as a molested child.

Writer Gerald Jones says that "same-sex intergenerational intimacy may be developmentally functional" (p. 279) and says, "Some studies have found benign or even beneficial results in boys who were at the time involved with men" (p. 280). Dr. Jones speaks approvingly of recent studies which discuss pedophilia in "value-neutral terms." (p. 280)

Along the same vein, The Harvard Gay and Lesbian Review interviewed poet Allen Ginsberg, a homosexual pedophile, shortly before his recent death. In a generally flattering article, they report Ginsburg's philosophy (not mentioned by the mainstream press) about sex with children, and offer no judgmental comment about it. The article is entitled, "The Liberation is the Word" (Summer 1997):

(Allen Ginsberg): "Like the whole labeling of pedophiles as 'child molesters.' Everybody likes little kids. All you've got to do is walk through the Vatican and see all the little statues of little prepubescents, pubescents, and postpubescents. Naked kids have been a staple of delight for centuries, for both parents and onlookers. So to label pedophilia as criminal is ridiculous."

I already posted allen Ginsburg.

David Thorstad is a homosexual activist and historian of the gay rights movement.[48] He is a former president of New York's Gay Activists Alliance (GAA), a prototype activist group founded in December 1969. The GAA at its inception opposed age of consent laws, which prohibited adults from having sex with children.[49] Thorstad is also a pedophile and founding member of the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).

Thorstad argues that there is a natural and undeniable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. He expresses bitterness that the gay rights movement has, in his view, abandoned pedophilia. Thorstad writes: "Boy-lovers were involved in the gay movement from the beginning, and their presence was tolerated. Gay youth groups encouraged adults to attend their dances. . . . There was a mood of tolerance, even joy at discovering the myriad of lifestyles within the gay and lesbian subculture."[50]

The inaugural issue of the Gay Community News in 1979 published a "Statement to the Gay Liberation Movement on the Issue of Man/Boy Love," which challenged the movement to return to a vision of sexual liberation. It argued that "the ultimate goal of gay liberation is the achievement of sexual freedom for all--not just equal rights for 'lesbian and gay men,' but also freedom of sexual expression for young people and children."

Thorstad claims that by 1985 homosexual pedophiles had won acceptance within the gay movement. He cites Jim Kepner, then curator of the International Gay and Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles: "A point I've been trying to make is that if we reject the boylovers in our midst today we'd better stop waving the banner of the Ancient Greeks, of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, Horatio Alger, and Shakespeare. We'd better stop claiming them as part of our heritage unless we are broadening our concept of what it means to be gay today."[52]

In 1985 NAMBLA was admitted as a member in New York's council of Lesbian and Gay Organizations as well as the International Gay Association--now the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA). In the mid-1990's ILGA's association with NAMBLA and other pedophile groups cost the organization it's status as a Non-Governmental Organization in the United Nations.

ILGA's renewed attempt to gain admittance to the UN was rejected again in April 2002 because the organization "did not document that it had purged pedophile groups such as [NAMBLA]." The Washington Times reports that Ishtiag H. Anrabi, Pakistani delegate to the UN Economic and Social Council, expressed concern that ILGA was continuing to be secretive about ties with pedophile groups: "For more than a year, the ILGA has refused to provide documentation or allow review of its membership list to demonstrate that pedophilia groups have been expelled."

And of course don't forget B4U-Act the homosexual organization which is advocating (along with members of the APA) to declare pedophilia as not a mental disorder but simply a sexual orientation and that those people should be called "minor-attracted persons"

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2011/08/...hilia-firsthand-report-on-b4u-act-conference/

Yeah unfortunately so have I. One of my good friends was adopted and raised by a homosexual couple and was molested for 10 years by his "parents" and nobody would do anything about it because it would be considered bigoted and homophobic.

No it's because you don't give a damn about the children that DO get affected. Because if you did, you wouldn't hide behind bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

Yes they most certainly are. No amount of sticking your head in your ass is going to make the statistics and the facts go away. I know you want them to but they never will because sick people refuse to address the actual problem because they'd rather get their rocks off legally than protect a child.

 

Please stop pretending you care about the children. If you did, you would be railing against the ones who are the overwhelming vast majority of offenders, which are heterosexual males.

 

Well old sport this is your problem .There are a few actually. What you just posted is a lengthy narrative making some baseless and undocumented claims. It is by no means a research paper, and while there are numerous references at the end, the Illinois Department of Children and Families is not one of them, nor is there a link. In addition, the various statistics and claims are not foot noted so it’s impossible to know where they were derived from.

There is also something in there about increased news stories about homosexuals abusing children in foster care but no information as to what percentage of the overall numbers of gay foster parents this represent and they admit that these cases are both allegations and confirmed sex abuse cases. From my experience, I can tell you that children in foster care often have emotional problems frequently make all sorts of allegations that turn out to be unfounded. Remember, I was an investigator.

Lastly, like you, the FRC conflates homosexuality with the gender of the perpetrator relative to the victim. Oh, and the tables that are referred to are not there. I don’t have to bash the FRC. The blatand dishonesty of their work speaks for itself
Am I right so far?.

Now, I found the official site of the Illinois Department of Children and Families: http://www.state.il.us/dcfs/index.shtml

There is some interesting information here to be sure, and none of it supports the FRC contentions. While the FRC fails to disclose exactly when the statistics that the Illinois Department of Children and Families allegedly provided to them, I found their annual report from 2012. You may follow the link above and scroll down to DCFS Annual Statistical Report FY2012 .

Let me call your attention to table 16 to start with. This table shows that for the year, there were 19,125 cases of abuse of all types reported. Foster and adoptive parents represented less than 1 % of the perpetrators.

More interestingly is table 24 that deals with sexual abuse of which there were 1,930 cases reported. Of that number 9 were allegedly committed by adoptive parents and 2 by foster parents. The majority of the perpetrators were male but there is no information as to the sexual orientation of the perpetrators. In addition there is no information on the gender of the victim relative to that of the perpetrator, but knowing that a vast number of victims are female,(table 23) it is logical to conclude that most of the abuse was male-on -female. In any case, the foster parents involved represents LESS THAN 1% of off all caretakers who were accused of sexual abuse.

The fact is that there is no mention of homosexuality same sex sexual assault anywhere in this report. It seems to me that if it were a problem, it would have been included.

You grade for today is another FAIL

 

False, per your "source" heterosexual men make up the vast majority of offenders followed by homosexual women.

Very well put

Thank you for the link.
Although I did not read the entire hit piece (its quite long and full of irrelevant insults to homosexuals) I did skim it, there are quite a few instances of conflict between the major health organizations and the other studies, many of which were done in the 50's which, by some, would be considered out of date seeing that homosexuality was basically illegal during that period.

Your own source states:

I have provided you several unbiased pieces of research that dispute your claims as I reaserch for true statistics, not to validate my point.

Furthermore, the fact that you would present a source like this (similar to quoting stormfront on issues of race or huffpo for pretty much anything) informs us that you are looking for information simply to justify your belief that homosexuals are all (or mostly) pedophiles.

If true stats present themselves to actually prove homosexual foster parents present significantly greater danger to children then I would be all for increased stipulations or even an out right ban on homosexual foster care. The opposite is not true for you.

Even with all the information from the major organizations you still stand by your opinion, you have no ability to enter into this topic without bias as you hate homosexuals. There is no further point in further discussion with you as the facts are irrelevant.

All homosexuals are not the way you paint us, while there are some absolutely horrible gay people most of us just want a loving family and to find peace and happiness. I'm sorry that you despise us so but that is life.

I wish you well and may no one ever attempt to trample your rights simply because they "hate your kind". Cheers

 

Have you now devolved to simply making (*)(*)(*)(*) up?

Since clearly the only thing you read was the first paragraph with the Summary... here's some of the paper for you with a source... let's start here:

The Illinois Department of Children & Family Services provided what it considered ìsubstantiatedî records of foster-parent sexual abuse for 1997-2002. 270 parents committed sexual offenses against foster- or subsidized-adoptive children. 67 (69%) of 97 mothers and 148 (86%) of 173 fathers sexually abused girls; 30 (31%) mothers and 25 (14%) of fathers sexually abused boys (i.e., 92 [34%] of perpetrators homosexually abused their charges). 15 parents both physically and sexually abused charges: daughters by 8 mothers and 4 fathers, sons by 3 mothers (i.e., for both forms of substantiated abuse, homosexual perpetrators were involved in 53%) (reported elsewhere [Cameron, 2005]).

Cameron, P. (2005) Homosexual foster parent molestations in Illinois, 1997-2002. Submitted to Psychological Reports

So you COMPLETELY ignore the study... declare that it doesn't have the information you want, admit that you didn't read it and COMPLETELY ignore the numbers provided therein... and THEN you get on here and say because YOU couldn't find the information you wanted that it must not exist?

smh