Australia, the UN, and Refugees

Instead your all sitting here playing semantics on the phrase 'illegal asylum seeker' as if some compassionate consideration should mean the law ignores the criminal activity.

 

No, they are not. They are legal asylum seekers. No semantics, just facts.

Nobody has ever said that people smuggling is legal.

However, they are not illegal asylum seekers.

 

Yes, for speeding.

However, that would not make you an "illegal swimmer".

The same goes for asylum seekers: it makes no difference how they get here, they are still "legal asylum seekers".

This is basic stuff.

 

Hey, your doing it again man I think you'll find the issue people have with it, is that they are actually using this sort of criminal people smuggling activity to get in. So it seems to be very much about semantics. If they built/bought a boat and arrived I do not think people would mind half as much.

 

I understand what you're saying, however, I just don't understand the fuss.

If I was an asylum seeker I'd sure as hell do whatever it takes to get me and my family to a safe country. If that meant paying people smugglers, so be it.

The smugglers are providing a service and the asylum seekers are voluntarily paying them money for that service. I have no problem with it.

 

I think the problem many have is that its a criminal business, and all business's are in the business of getting bigger and more efficient at making money for the operators. Its why we have so many laws like safety standards. Since these asylum seekers are spending so much money and time by-passing the laws of various countries, it can create a well oiled pipeline designed specifically to bypass authorities in various countries. It breaks down security throughout Asia and is a revenue stream for criminal organisations. Our end of the equation is not the worse of it, but these criminal activities mean it will try to increase the amount of people coming in, which then costs us more and more.

As I said, if they can legally buy a boat then it means they havent been part of that criminal network, or if they can build it well that would be difficult and mean it would happen less... so either of those ways I'd welcome them with open arms.

 

Mebbe dey gonna replace the Hispexicans dat gonna be deported...

Some Refugees Held in Australian Camps to Be Resettled to US
November 13, 2016 — Some refugees held in controversial Australian-run camps in the South Pacific will be resettled in the United States. Speaking in Canberra, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said it would be a “one-off” deal.

 

it's a stupid deal, why is Turnbull doing this? to make a statement? "you won't set foot in Australia...." refugees are desperate obviously mr millionaire Turnbull can't relate.

I have to ask what did we pay for this deal... what did we promise the US? Especially now with Trump elected I feel slimy owing them anything, all to make a stupid statement, now Turnbull is just pissing me off.

 

I have to agree here. It seems a sideways move at best.

Not sure why you have to send these poor people over to the USA to close down these centers. Why bother, just bring them in and close this sorry chapter. Process them here and move on.

I agree, if it wasn't a swap, I can only imagine what the deal is. You can be sure it is not in our favour.

Scarlet we know you hate Trump, that is well and good, but he has had absolutely nothing to do with this(yet). Soon we will be hearing you blaming him for Christs death, the sinking of the Titanic, and the earthquake in NZ.

 

really?.... the drama ... you left out the the disappearance of MH370, I'm sure he built a wall around it

 

I have seen some ridiculous figures regarding the number of illegals being granted refugee status in OZ, but I have never, ever heard of of someone calling almost 100%, 100%. I have however seen this sort of rubbish before by other economic migrants to Australia, some from the first fleeters (the only people who didn't come to Australia for the very reason you are now trying to stop others coming). However, most of the traditional owners of Australia welcome this lot of refugees, the previous ones were forced upon them by acts of terrorism.

 

I
stand firm on my believe, stopping the boats is a political decision, it is not meant to to stop people from drowning, but to stop Muslims coming to Australia.
We have the most racist government ever, Turnbull/Abbott about the same.

http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...l/news-story/48e0f917b3ec4454ae0b0fbec8538338

Just imagine, a war being brought upon either the US or the UK, we wouldn't waste a second of our time to come to their rescue, with or without passports, no questions asked.
I know some are opposed to my opinion, and I am asking you to come clear. It is all there, just be honest,
regards

 

As soon as I see the words illegal asylum seekers I know the person does not know what they are talking about.

To me this is just more "ho hum" ignorant people who have no idea about what is really happening in the world except that small window that Bolt et al opens for them

 

Oh gosh, really? If youz complain of a stinky forum its because youz start it.

But OK, lets go there again..... illegal asylum seekers untrue? Not quite, but it's been politicized by the left and so confusing is all over the place, even at the top with the likes of Triggs etc, but I'm happy to explain it here for the PFers.

How seeking asylum is meant to work is that someone in a warzone can flee to a safe neighboring country and claim asylum, and be processed as a refugee for resettlement by the UN or host nation. A nation does not have to be a signatory to the convention to process refugee claims, as the UN Refugee Agency instead operates in those locations which are not to achieve the same effect, like in Indonesia for example but in over 140 countries around the world. The UN does this because real refugees are usually very vulnerable, and its is a serious problem to have uncontrolled migration across borders, and those vulnerable communities really need the help from the more well off members of those communities to rebuild rather then have them bugger off overseas.

Such that if Indonesia had a civil war, we'd have no blinkin choice but to set up huge camps in the NT and sort them out. Because we are outside the unsafe zone they are fleeing. In fact its a good way for them to invade us, but that is another topic...

So then, if you can swallow those facts, then you might start to realize that the difference between that and economic migration is when the better off refugees start decide to leave that safe country and start travelling through other countries to pick the best place to claim asylum.

So considering that its illegal to participate in the conduct of a crime, and that people smuggling is a crime, the term 'illegal asylum seeker' is what is used to represent people who are asylum shopping in this way. Crossing borders without approval is a crime as well, unless your claiming refugee status. But its hazy to make that distinction, and because of that its open to abuse by economic migrants, people smugglers who might target real refugees, and any political opportunism by independents, populists and anarchists.

But of importance, on one hand we have a clear foundation for the concept from the spirit of the laws, but because the letter of the laws does not, and probably cannot easily, make this distinction in such a way which cannot be easily countered by misleading authorities - it creates an opportunity for asylum shopping to occur. So when Tampa and the people overboard happened the left made it political by trying to cast the right as evil, cruel, racist bla bla bs vomit.

Thus, of those doing this who are real refugees, they are not the most vulnerable refugees (they had the cash to travel around the globe more then I have!) and so the government policy in regards to refugee's is that it would prefer to focus on the most vulnerable, rather then middle class refugee's who'd rather live in Australia then help their fellow countrymen at a time of dire need. So from the point of view of the right, they are trying to spend the taxpayer dollar where its needed most for the most vulnerable refugees, and reducing the cost of trying to uncontrolled migration, and stopping people smugglers from risking the lives of asylum seekers, be them real refugees or not. While the left policy seems to be more about public perception locally for political effect, no matter how many lives it might cost or how much it might cost us in processing or how many children the ALP put in detention or what security risks were introduced etc etc, votes baby.

Bolt came about to counter the ABC's Insiders didn't you know? Have you watched that stuff?? The ABC is so left that if they even smile at a Liberal politician the social media goes into a frenzy about them being in bed with the right. There is some serious delusional group think going on in the popular left voter base these days. Its scarey crazy. But you gotta stop blaming Bolt, the little I saw of him on freetoair TV was mostly quite good and better journalism then a lot of the ABC is doing. Yes it was one-sided, but that was because everything else on freetoair TV is leaning so hard to the left.

Well mandatory detention was started by Keating and the ALP in the early 90's, so your theory sorta falls flat from the outset.

But to the extent of offshore processing, I'd suggest it was about the security vulnerability during a time of potential escalation in radical islamist terrorism - probably. It's easy to look back with hindsight and say it did not manifest, but back after 9/11 the threat was real and this sort of stuff is much better done proactively then reactionary. Is that a bad thing? Do you think security vulnerabilities are a good thing for the country? Or do you deny there is a security vulnerability at all by allowing anyone in? Why twist that into 'racism', remembering not all asylum seekers are muslim? Can we stay anchored in reality a little bit?

 

I think you are just spiteful human being who knows what is really happening, but deliberately views illegal refugees entering Australia as a "pay back" for white Australians invading Aboriginal land.

I believe you need some serious intervention in getting past your biased and vengeful attitude.

 

Australia is no longer in a position to take on more refugees. We are surviving the paying of our daily $100 million bills by using plastic and paying over 1 billion each month interest.
Gone are the days of wealthy country who took in more refugees per capita than any other nation on earth.
Now even Europe cant cope with the 60 million the UN Banke Moon said were on the move and funnily enough they started to move then in their thousands daily and many drowning trying to get into Europe by sea.
Nor can we in Australia take in more.
Labor opened the borders in 2007 and 55000 illegals arrived and yes many have been found under the UN rules to be 'refugees' but under our laws all are illegals as should have applied for Visa or refugee status.
We cant allow our sovereign right to say who comes to live in our country to be over ridden by the hate laws of the left and the international laws made so as to destroy democracies. And that is the reason for those who having been offered money to go still stick to saying want to live here and hopefully now will be re-settled elsewhere. Leaving us with a billions borrowed to pay interest on due to Labor letting down the people by opening up the borders to people smugglers.
Its this what is fueling the moves that the Left cant understand seemingly, that we have had enough and want our countries back.
Trump and Britex prime examples and its not going to go away.

 

And another one of the *go home were you came from* camp....
If we wouldn't have helped to unrest the Middle East there would be less refugees....
And I bet you voted for Howard....
Anyway, welcome to this forum,
regards

 

Bullcrap - open your bloody eyes, and stop all your shelia talk. We are socially and economically drowning in refugee cancer, and throwing our own citizens in the garbage as a result.

We have a "'run-a-away" train of youth suicide; homelessness; and social structure decline, and you are advocating in spending our tax money helping bloody refugees who are paying Indonesian people smugglers $10,000 per boat ticket to get into Australia through the back door, so they can get pregnant & bludge on our welfare system forever.

Nice one Wally!!

Really wouldn't expect anything more intelligent from a Greens supporter.

 

Baird's state budget set aside $146 Million for just NSW's share of the 12,000 Syrian refugees and only $40 Million was set aside for homeless children. How much more money can we spend on refugees? Especially those who pay to come here by boat. Mainly young virile males with barely a woman or child in sight. Where are the women? Left at home to fend for themselves? And where is this endless supply of money supposed to come from? 85% are still on welfare after 4 years here and people who have lived, worked and paid taxes here for 40 years or more are being harassed, hassled and shamed for trying to maintain and/or claim a pension.

Sydney already has a Middle Eastern Crime Squad and last week it was announced that we now have to invest in yet another task force to deal with the crime that is overrunning Sydney and originating in certain enclaves inhabited by who?

We simply cannot afford to keep following the path that we have been.

 

I don't think your indigenous liberals will agree with that sentiment - at least not until it's too late and (*)(*)(*)(*) starts hitting fans.

 

If all that is true, how come we here in Europe haven't heard anything about it?

 

No outcry because the "white tourist " at least pay their own way. No burden on taxpayers.

 

Red Lilly, you would have heard on the news about he crime wave hitting Melbourne.

Its consists of African gangs called: Apex. They are now uncontrollable, and roam freely throughout Melbourne suburbs - carjacking; bashing; street violence; robbing shops and home invasions. We recently had some psychopath who set himself alight in a bank injuring 26 people and critically injuring 6 others. This psychopath was released from a detention centre into the Australian community, determined as being a safe individual.

Its time for Australians to start fighting back. If these Departments and politicians allow these psychopaths and violent people into our country and our communities, then its time for them to legally take accountability and responsibility for their actions.

If I was the families of these injured people. I would be initiating a class action against the Department and politicians responsible for reckless endangerment.

I also agree its scandalous that Australian tax payers money is used and squandered on financially supporting foreign refugees, when our own citizens are homeless and in destitute situations.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/...eople-fight-their-life-after-man-sets-himself

 

Because everyone seems to be on a Muslim arse kissing holiday. The world is being flooded with Arabic money, and its buying silence & stupidity.

 

Quite agree Red Lily. Dont left the lefties here get you down. The days of hurling abuse at anyone who disagrees are ending with the majority rapidly waking up to the evil of Leftism which is in reality Communism which failed under that original banner as we know.
Things cant go on and so change is inevitable and its moving to the right in Europe, UK and USA. So here too already as success of One Nation shows. WE must go back to basics. Which means we have to cut out immigration humanitarian and all other except for emergencies like no one can do this essential job etc.
Even today cant bring in family from overseas western countries without they have means of providing for themselves with large sums and investing these in state,plus private health buy own home and have enough money to live on etc yet we have been allowing many with money to come by smugglers boat @ 10k per ticket and told must accept them as refugees under UN - well not under our own Laws obviously.

And also why are we allowing Chinese investors to buy and then leave properties vacant pushing up prices - madness all around.
Shame on all politicians who are out of touch and dont listen. Left to blame as media mislead as very few journalists who aren't left wing.
Good thing is that the western nations peoples are moving to the right and the left are on the run. Here too soon as we can!