Catalonian Parliament votes to move towards speedy independence

"Freedom"?... Because Spain is a repressive country or something like that?
Catalonians are free, they just want stop to pay for the other spanish because of pure selfishness... They could at least be less hypocrites and tell the truth.

 

Now the just-elected catalonian president(the most important representer of the spanish authority in catalonia) just declares that he realizes doesnt got the power for declare an unillateral independence, oh, they simply cant get over they are losing support year after year, because of their crazy way to lead the catalonian people to an alley without exit, forgetting the majority of people who are not agree with their politics, making a pact in the last hour in order to avoid new elections, in which is obvious, they would lose many voters.

 

I've to say that I'm Spanish and I have to say that if Catalonia get independent they won't be in the EU and they wouldn't be able to use Euro as their currency so I don't see any good point in their independance

 

It look like if some people enjoy pretend to be "perscuted"...
I really don't understand Catalonians too. If they became independants, they will regret it, that's sure.

 

To be honest I don't think people who want independence fully understand as to what they are asking for or even what they will gain by it.

 

This forum is full of right wingers who say they are tired of paying taxes that benefit the poor (by a strange coincidence, they do not claim to be tired of paying taxes that benefit the rich or foreign countries such as Israel). If I was from Catalunya, I sure as hell would have no interest in paying taxes that are going to fill the coffers and bank rolls of power elites in Madrid such Felipe VI and those who got their power from fascist dictator Franco.

 

Catalonia can easily go into a treaty which allows use of the Euro. Because of its wealth, the EU will gladly allow it to join.

 

The EU already said that if they independizate they wouldn't be able to join again. And they won't have as wealth as they have now because most of the factories had already warned that they'll move out.

 

I think the same as you. They see that the situation of the country is bad, so they want to leave it. They don't understand that the things can go even worsen... That's a very bad choice for Catalunia to leave Spain.

 

I though the same. What annoy me is that they speak about arguments who make them look like if they wanted to be independants because of historical, cultural reason, when in fact, it's just to save monney.
I agreed, It's annoying to pay tax wich are useless. But all the rich people in Spain, Catalonians or no, are doing the same... So, I would understand them to ask the government to change fiscality, but that thet want their independance, I find it selfish and stupid.

 

True. Its not unlike the position of Scotland in which even if the majority wanted to leave they would fiscally and economically worse off and all for adding another layer of bureaucracy to the system.

I think that economics are a major driving force when it comes down to the issue of independence and I'm sure once the Spanish economy improves then the issue of Catalan secession will quieten.

 

You are French, not Catalonian. Perhaps that is why you see things that way.

Years before you were born, the Algerians felt they were not French and fought to get their freedom from your country. The Vietnamese felt that same way and fought for their freedom.

Catalonians were there centuries before the Spaniards conquered their land. As they are from a different ethnicity, it is easy to see why they want their freedom.

 

Spaniard's conquering their land? Do you know much about Spanish history?
Its a bit like saying that England conquered Scotland.

 

read the poem A Parcel of Rogues

 

It was just a poem. There is no evidence to suggest that the Scottish parliament were coerced into accepting the union but even then it Scotland that inherited England not the other way around.
So answer my previous questions.

 

there would be no freedom movement if Catalonia was free from Madrid's unwanted control

 

I'm sorry to say that you don't come from Catalunia too...

There is not link between the two. Algeria and Vietnamese where colonies, the people did not have the same rights than the people of the mainland - the colonisation really opressed people, they did not ask independance for money only; this cases are completly differents.
Catalonia is not a colony. Catalunians people are a national minority, with the same rights that the national majority and wich are profondly linked to Spain's mainland. There's a lot of countries in the same case in France: Britanny, Alsace, Corse, Basquian country... And a lot of similars cases all over the Europe.
Nowdays, in Corsica, there's a nationalist party who won at the regional election. Like that, they will be able to protect more their national identity - but they clearly said that they don't want the independance because of financial problems it would creat to their island. This is really the more clever solution. And Spain already give a lot of liberty to Catalunia and the other national minority there's in the country. So it sound stupid to ask independancen.

As for all the country of Europe. A country is alive. If you watch a map of Europe centuries ago, the countries where complety differents. So you think we have to built it like in the past? Then we should find what period is the right period and make move ALL the European countries... What a mess!

 

There would be no "freedom" movement if Madrid was very rich.

 

are you serious? You quote a poem as historical evidence? one written 100 tears after the event? utterly insane.

 

Catalonian extremist sects are building a virtual nation 40 years ago. They had been taking advantage of Spanish democratic laws and constitution which defends Catalonian culture. They implanted the seed of the separatism using tools like schools and local public media. The problem comes with recent crisis: like other populisms the separatism is the drug of some minds that need solutions.

Two centuries ago the Spanish colonies was depleted by Catalan upper classes. They formed lobbies to make pressure on protectionist laws that struggled colonies economies. After that with Franco's dictatorship regime a great part of Catalonia was pro-Franco (overall high income people). Within last 40 years the local politicians used separatism together with language politics as a tool to build inexistent borders.

Now the slogan "we have the chance to decide" moves again the populist feelings to give a new step away on the separatist sects pursuit.

But we (Spanish) might have the chance to decide centralise some competences or to change some laws. We might have the ability to say "we don't want politic measures against our country". In France they suddently stop any initiative against their union. In Germany the courts stopped the "right to decide" of some eventual separatist politicians. In UK is different since they have different constitution and different history.

However extremist nationalists will continue saying "we have the right to decide". This is a toxic usage of democratic tools. If we open the box of the "right to decide" may be the rest of Spain might want to get rid of expensive and negative decentralisation laws.