Does the cost of the war in Ukraine exceed the benefits?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. Why are you so unreasonable? I am trying find policies that benefit this country.

It’s left who continues to accuse Trump as a Putin sympathizer. I have never done that. During his presidency, it was an absurd claim.

 

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm quoting you:

Trying to get clarity on this post is what I've been trying to do throughout our discussion and it turns out you don't even remember what you said.

 

I’ll give you clarity. There are some people here who are propagandists. I have run in a couple who are Stalin admirers, who describe him as a humanitarian. That blows my mind.

As for my comments, look at what @Bill Carson posted.

 

No, not to join NATO. Ukraine can apply to NATO or not. And, NATO has documented requirements.

This IS about the right to self determination, to independence, to the importance of sovereignty, and for peaceful resolution of differences. As you say, we have too many wars already.

All the involved states signed the UN Charter, so this is also about upholding the international law and order we all agreed to uphold.

 

Well I'll give you Carson. He seems to have a side, and it's Russia, but I would be hard pressed to find anyone else in this forum who fits that category.

In my opinion you said what you said because you simply cannot conceive of another opinion besides yours and therefore have to put it down to being Pro-Russian and Pro-Putin. I would say you are well on your way to becoming a leftist. Soon you'll be calling everyone you disagree with a racist (same energy).

 

You overstate the issue. If I’m that bad, why don’t you ignore me?

Your attitude is like @zoro who is angry at me for not supporting using the border issue as a bargaining chip for aid to Ukraine, Israel and free China as a bargaining chip until the bitter end.

If we come off as far right extremists, we stand a good chance of losing the House, Senate and White House. If that happens, you can kiss the border goodbye. The Democrats will open it completely and fast track the illegals to citizenship.

 

John McCain was a vile POS, I'm glad he's dead. All he did was run his mouth, provoke war anywhere and everywhere, and then got his kickbacks for doing so. His little buddy Lindsey Graham is just as vile and corrupt.

George Bush was head of the CIA, so freakin what if Putin was in the KGB? Was he head of the KGB? Nope. He actually quit the KGB because of corruption. Dude briefly drove a taxi. Did George Bush drive a taxi?

As for the rest, absolute equine excrement. The people of Crimea held a referendum and voted to secede from 'the ukraine' (at a time when they had no democratically elected President since the US facilitated a violent coup just months before). After declaring independence (as they also did in 1991 only to be taken over forcefully by ukraine a couple of years later), they then voted to join Russia, and asked Russia to annex them. Russia obliged. All legit according to international law. See 'Kosovo' before you even attempt to reply.

Are you ****ing serious? Crimea is 85-90% ethnic Russian. Has been for hundreds of years. Only a politically symbolic move by Khrushchev in 1954 gave Crimea a slight stench of ukrainian.

Well you thought wrong to begin with, now what?

 

My side is any side opposite NATO since in my entire life, NATO has been nothing but a war promoting, MIC/politicians get rich while civilians in random countries either get dead or their lives are worse off than before NATO stuck its ****ing nose in their business.

As for this conflict, you're damn right I'm on Russia's side. I'm not some ignorant fool that believes everything that comes out of the DC/Pentagon swamp. Our state department is responsible for this conflict as it started in 2014....the CIA/MIC needed a new conflict to get rich on. Countless ethnic Russian ukrainians paid the price. Russia has the moral high ground in this conflict, deal with it.

And when all this stinking happens again and again all around the world, it's just another tax on ME! Fools can't seem to figure out where inflation comes from. Well, some of it is coming from the place most of your reading this couldn't finger on a map 2 years ago.

NATO will be one of the main contributors to the fall of the US empire. The USSR did the same ****ing thing, see how that turned out? Putin has no ****ing desire to invade anywhere it's full of polish (ethnic ukrainians) *******s. In other words, the western 1/3 of "the ukraine" is certainly a no-go. That's mostly polish lands where they worshiped their WW2 nazi hero Stepan Bandera (added by Stalin in WW2, Stalin's biggest mistake). The poles have invaded Russia 4-5 times throughout history.....Putin knows where the wrong side of the tracks is.

 

If you've got something else to say to me, say it directly.

Warmongering RINOs are nothing but Democrats. The country is going to hell in a hand basket because of this type of limp-wristed logic.

 

If, you are taking the side of Russia then the logical conclusion is you pro Putin/Russia.

That’s not what he said.

 

LOL LOL


You're having a



Melt down; man.

You've just ignored history, blown off facts, and had the most self aggrandizing tantrum I've seen and quite awhile; but I'm wrong? The only worthy response to that nonsense is.



That's what.

 

Well the only person I've ever had on ignore died, so my ignore powers might be too powerful. You don't deserve that just because we disagree on some issues.

We're going to lose the House and likely the White House anyway, so @Zorro has a point. The tiny bit of power we had should have been used. It's a major defeat to have not included border security with the give-away-cash-to-foreigners bill. We actually could have accomplished that if the House Speaker, after calling that his line in the sand, had not crumbled for no explained reason.

If border security is considered far right extremism, I'm not sure that term has any meaning.

But anyway this is all off topic.

 

Sure you have buddy, sure

 

Which gives him something in common with every other asshat that has ever run Russia going back to Ivan the Terrible. And like the rest of them he isn't immortal.

 

Well I'd rather be pro Russia than pro Neo-nazi ukraine. Stepan Bandera statues popping up all over the place since 2014. Great job, you support bringing back WW2 nazism.


Keep believing the horseshit fed to you by the MSM and USG.

 

Well I'm not on Russia's side, I'm on America's side. However on this forum being on America's side and putting America first seems to be interpreted as being Pro-Putin. That's quite some powerful propaganda if you think about it.

There is a lot to be said for digging into the details to learn the historical details of who is right and who is wrong, and I've had an interest in foreign affairs for a long time, and studied these issues in depth and the history of differing regions because I thought it would lead me to clarity on who, ultimately was right and who was wrong on these matters. Eventually however, I just determined that usually both sides are right depending on what date you start your argument with. For the middle east (Palestinians vs Israelis), are you starting at 1948, 1917, 636, 63 BC, or earlier? For Ukraine, is it from 2022, 2014 or Putin's version, to prehistory?

At this point, I don't care.

I only care about one country, the United States, and I see our involvement in Ukraine and worse, all of the ancillary effects of that, as bad for the US long term. A lot of that is that in the US you're socially looked down upon if your nationalistic about America, but you can be nationalistic about some corrupt foreign s---hole and get praise for it. It's a way to fill a psychological need for tribalism by transferring it to another tribe, which is why the left falls for it so easily. They hate their own tribe, but those pent up desires to support a tribe can be transferred to Ukraine, or Gaza, or whatever. Just never America.

 

OK, and who is taking the side of Russia?

 

No I don't support "NAZISM" in anyway. Wherever did you get such a notion?

I've never seen "the MSM or USG" come out in favor of NAZISM, ever. You must have every picture of a Ukrainian NAZI rally in the last 20 years. Not to mention that few though they may be, American NAZI's support tRaitor tRump 100%. But that you, admittedly support Putin/Russia tells me all I need to know. Being Pro Putin or Pro Nazi isn't a binary choice; there are many ways to weigh in without choosing tyranny.

 

Just on this page; you, gayrd, and Bill Carson.

 

Could you provide the quote of me "taking the side of Russia" in this thread? I'm curious as to what you consider taking the side of Russia to mean.

 

I don't have to, you have denigrated anyone that has come out in support of Ukraine. That's your style, snipping at people but cleverly obfuscating what you stand for. Which, from my observation is NOTING. You seem to derive a great deal of satisfaction from being a fly in the ointment.

 

I thought so. Nothing as usual.

Thanks for playing.

 

Save your breath Mike. As you are well aware, the masses in this country believe whatever bullshit the US government tells them, no matter how ignorant it is. So when the US government says Bashar al-Assad is the bad guy and 'freedom fighters' aka ISIS are the good guys so we must support overthrowing some random government in a place that doesn't matter........the ignorant masses say "hell yeah, let's invade Syria".....'cause the US government/MIC says it's our national security on the line.

WTF do we still have troops in Syria for? Why are they there in the first place? al-Assad is still there. The lies fed to us have come and gone, yet we're still there. Why? Because some politicians/military/MIC folks are still in on the grift.

If you support America, then you should support the stoppage of all funds going to ukraine, israel and Taiwan. That's not supporting Russia or being pro-Russia, that's supporting conclusion of the conflict and peace. That's pro-America. America first.

ukraine is a corrupt cesspool. zelenskystein is taking a cut off the top. As long as there is money to steal, there will be no peace. That is unless zelenskystein is terminated or their military totally collapses.

Yes, I am saying zelensky is killing his own people to enrich himself. Him and all the steins that make up his inner circle are getting rich from foreign aid money and they could care less how many die so long as they can buy some new mansions.

Just like Nikki Haley would send your kids to die in a foreign land you couldn't finger on a map so she could buy a bigger house.

Some people are just garbage. Unfortunately that accounts for the majority of Congress. While they get rich, the serfs get poorer. It's disgusting.

 

Its not propaganda. Lot of people promote policies which would help Russia win the war, and in their view it somehow translates to "being on America's side". If it helps Russia, then obviously it IS pro-russia view, whether or not they'll admit it. Claiming its "American first" is a lame attempt to justify it.

 

No, thank you ...

... for proving my point.