Feminism versus Facts

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by Wolverine, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    I am on the fence on feminism. I did find this video very interesting, Thunderf00t does an excellent job in pointing out hypocrisy in the feminist movement.

    Feminism versus FACTS (RE Damsel in distress)
    http://youtu.be/QJeX6F-Q63I
     
  2. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    Im a "feminist' but I dont take marching orders from any "leader".
     
  3. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    video games?

    Can you summarize or list what thunderf00ts points are?
    what facts?
     
  4. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Haaa...I wouldn't take what "Feminist Frequencys" says too seriously. She literally takes every female figure in shows, games, and movies, barely analyzes them and makes generalized conclusions about them.

    From a long time gamer I can personally say there are hundreds of female characters in games that are not all one dimensional characters or mere plot devices. lol

    This guy makes some great points as well, especially about the overused male hero archetype that all tend to fit one type of personality. I mean look at the Final Fantasy series, the vast majority of them has a male hero who is blonde, usually quiet/depressed, extremely powerful, has a ridiculous weapon of some kind, etc. lol
     
  5. hobo1

    hobo1 New Member

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    I, as a male, have supported woman's rights since its beginnings. However, I am wondering at what point we are going declare woman as being equal. I read statistics about women's salary being less than men's. That's is still unfair.

    At some point, however, both sexes should recognize that differences exist - and jokes about the differences should no longer be considered sexist. I hope we are just about to the point where society considers women and men equal... then the woman who gets offended about something will be considered overly sensitive.
     
  6. Neodoxy

    Neodoxy New Member

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    That was a very good video. Thunderf00t made some really great points.

    Feminism can either be the best or worst of ideologies. Insofar as feminism supports individualism, and that ultimately one should be free to make ones own destiny regardless of sex, then that's great and I support it thoroughly. Insofar as feminism becomes and egalitarian ideology that assumes there are inherently only the most obvious of physical differences, and that any differences in behavior and action are results of socially entrenched sexism, I find it wholly insufferable. I believe that there are some inherent differences, both in physical and mental characteristics, that are often present between genders. This is not true of every individual, but that doesn't mean it's not a real tendency.

    I see it as just another extension on ethical outrage and victimization that is being rather common in our day. Instead of positively seeking to live one's own life in the best way possible, one is instead blaming everything upon a personified amorphous force. All the feminist talk of "the patriarchy" just seems like nonsense to me. People aren't perfect and they are prejudiced, 50 years ago it was a big deal that an Irish Catholic was president, now it would scarcely be mentioned. If women positively act to break stereotypes and to achieve instead of sitting around complaining, then given another few decades we'll be that much closer to an individualist, non-sexist culture
     
  7. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    I haven't looked into it much recently but I did read several years ago that a lot of times men would make a higher salary than women when working in the exact same position that had the exact same duties. One of the reasons for this that I recall is that men are still viewed as the breadwinners of the family and women are viewed as only working on the side to aid the family but not as the breadwinner. I don't know how true this still is this day and age though since women are still fighting for equal pay and other rights.

    Another reason women tend to make less than men in the workforce overall is because women tend to fall into lower paying jobs to begin with (administrative, receptionist, nursing, etc.) while most men go on to work in difficult or higher paying jobs (physicians, engineering, construction, etc.)

    Obviously if you are working as a nurse you are not going to get paid an engineer's salary.
     
  8. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    still curious but not enough to watch the video
     
  9. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Same with me - I never watch videos. 'Females' are a pushing-it sort of social group. Obviously human beings should be treated equally in the light of their peculiar natures, and equally obviously women are not - but my urge to see female persons at the head of big companies or the Republican Party is limited, I have to admit. I remember Thatcher, that vicious Enemy of the Human Race, Decency and Normal Speech!
     
  10. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    ah so you have some post traumatic stress, understood. Rest assured,I'm certain we're not all potential Margaret Thatchererers ;)
     
  11. hobo1

    hobo1 New Member

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    Is it still proper to open the car door for a lady? Who goes through the door first? Man or woman?
     
  12. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    Well, I think it's nice but not expected definitely not as a routine. For the second question whoever gets to the door first, goes through it first and when you win, you righteously let the door slam in his face! :cool:
     
  13. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    you always take a risk when you use exclamation points. seriously, I don't think I'm unusual in that I hold the door open for anyone including the men folk all the time. Its a common courtesy kind of thing.


    Hypocrisy in the feminist movement? Facts?
     
  14. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Women--in the general sense-- tend to make family more priority and choose more flexible jobs. My boss and her husband are doing it differently---where she works the long hours and he's working part-time to make sure someone can focus on the kids. Their situation isn't the norm--as women generally choose jobs that work for them AND work for their family focus.

    Whenever a woman takes off---and sometimes they do for years until the children are older or in school--that will affect their career. But it also affects things at home in a good way. Kids aren't left to fend for themselves and a parent knows what is going on with them...making sure they aren't roaming the streets.

    The thing is---a healthy family with kids well taken care of is a good thing. There is a lot of satisfaction and long-term benefits in putting your efforts into the family and home. The liberal feminists tend to think that family and home is not important. They seem to rate a person's worth and productivity based on career status in the workforce.
     
  15. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    wasn't Anita a pornstar?
     
  16. hobo1

    hobo1 New Member

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    I am kind of shocked to hear your answers. My mother would turn over in her grave if she knew a woman was opening the car door for me. It is kind of built in reaction for me to open the door, etc.

    That does beg a larger question... when does "equality" reach a point where it has negative effects? For example, flirting, feeling shy around a new man a woman meets. Flirting is considered an art in many countries. Most men want to feel strong and dominant in bed - and a woman has her own routine of first shy and then permissive. That has been a tradition of sexual arousal forever.

    Even in daily life, some roles come more naturally to each gender. Woman are caregivers to children by nature, and (I think) teaching children right and wrong usually falls on the man.

    Do you think the sexual equality pendulum has (or will) swing to far so as to diminish the quality of life for both genders? I can see the distinct possibility.
     
  17. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    I guess I found the video interesting because a few of her points are repeated by a feminist friend of mine. I do not believe I am feminist, I think that most things that can be equal should be equal.

    There a few things that are simply not equal, such as strength in most cases.

    If a woman (I say woman because the guys on the fire department could drag me out, the woman who have been on the fire department are not strong enough) cannot drag me out of a burning building, why should I want to partner up with them? Lets say for a moment this was a paid position and not volunteer, if she is incapable of performing the most basic and essential of tasks, why should the pay be the same? Equality is great assuming both parties can perform task X.

    And thunderf00ts point were excellent in the sense that both sexes are stereotyped in popular media. I saw an amusing eCard on Facebook last week (as it is true)

    Women complain when men use them for sex. Sex is awesome! Both people benefit! They should start complaining when men use them for laundry and human shields.

    lol
     
  18. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Oh definitely in certain cases you simply can't have men and women equally doing the same things. Like in sports for example, let's use wrestling, they have weight classes for a reason, putting a 160 lb man vs a 230 lb man is simply not fair. Putting men vs women in wrestling or other sports may not be fair either based on the physical differences between their bodies.

    There is also a debate in rifle shooting that women are actually better built to shoot rifles than men and therefore would hold an advantage over them if they were to compete together. Women have bigger hips than men and can easily rest their elbow and forearm in the right spots and give them better physical support to stabilize their shooting position.
     
  19. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    Equality is not being restricted from pursuing your interests because of your sex - in work and in relationships, which should also work for men. It doesn't change the need to meet the requirements of the job/career just like if you were going to be a doctor, scientist, mechanic like women often are. equal opportunities, equally important

    As far as job performance that would benefit from physical strength, I'm sure you know that some women are bigger and stronger than some men just like some men are better nurturers than some women. Its not common but its not unheard of either. Some women would be better suited to being a firefighter than some guys would. also who would pull you out of a burning building isn't always going to be a matter of if they physically can, it's if they would.
     
  20. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    Thatcher, the greatest enemy of the human race? Wow, Thatcher was the greatest female leader the world has known. Simply crushed those overbearing progressive unions...similar to the way Scott Walker and other Conservatives are crushing the unions here in good ole America--despite we having the most radical leftist potus ever.
     
  21. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    I don't go in with someone who I don't think would, I certainly would not go in with someone who was physically unable.
     
  22. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    Does that include men that you think would be physically unable or just women?
    Should those scrawny guys be paid less too?
     
  23. Dorkay Winthra

    Dorkay Winthra New Member

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    My mom went to an all girls Catholic high school in the 50's. Her career days consisted of choosing between being a nun, nurse, secretary and a teacher. (she has a few degrees in Music and has been a teacher for almost 50 years)

    Thanks to feminists her daughters had everything to choose from on their career days. My daughters have everything to choose from. Those choices weren't created by superior physical strength. Human beings didn't get to the top of the food chain because of our superior physical strength.
     
  24. hobo1

    hobo1 New Member

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    That is not a man/woman question. Everybody must be able to do the job they are hired to perform - man or woman. In the case of firemen, they are paid by rank or pay level - which are usually based on how long you've been on the job. Salaries are not set by the whim of a supervisor. It is not a case of prejudice against woman.
     
  25. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    People who are unable to perform X task should be placed in situations were they may be required to do so.

    Can't drag me out? You are not my partner or backup team.
    Can't properly fit your SCBA in a minutes or less? You are not my partner or backup team.

    It is all based on performance in who performs what tasks.
     

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