For The Anti Homosexual Members

Why don't the forum heterosexuals tell us what trauma made them 'straight'?

If I've experienced trauma, the bulk of it has been in the form of anti-gay assault and battery. But sure, let's waste our time talking about what made gay people gay. On second thought, let's not - I've already heard more than enough of the delusional thinking it's usually founded upon.

 

We may all come out of the womb 'correctly' wired however the brain is also a 2-way chemical distribution factory. The genetic amount of certain glandular secretions could influence sexuality depending on environmental conditions. That is...Similar childhood traumas to different individuals could result in diametrically opposed sexual urges.

 

But you just assume they were always gay and in denial, as opposed to being bisexual or switching along the way. Asserting your reasoning is just that, an assertion. But the topic is that being gay doesn't hurt anyone else and I gave an example of when it does, nothing more or less than that. Personally I believe most people are born bisexual and are conditioned away from this.

 

Again, you are out of context. I cannot do anything about slavery, its history literally and figuratively. The gay activists excesses are not history, they occur today and can be addressed today. That's the context.

By the way, what color is my skin?

 

'Straight' is considered the predominate sexual template so, trauma would not be a factor in making 'straight' people.

It could be that at a certain point in human development, the sexual die is already cast. From what I understand, gays feel the same repulse at having sex with the opposite sex as heterosexuals who think about having same-sex partners.

 

Then you haven't known enough of them.

 

There are men who were assaulted by a man/men in their childhood are intensely anti-gay including internally for that reason. No way to know what they would have been otherwise.

Your logic is flawed in that you believe that if trauma changes a person that change isn't real, permanent and who that person really is. The belief that counseling can erase the effects of past abuse and trauma is generally this false notion of society that everyone can be fixed and corrected. IF a person DID become gay as the overall collective reasons the person is gay does not in the slightest change the FACT that the person is gay and is going to stay gay.

In my opinion, most people are born without any orientation, meaning without any sexual restrictions, and then are evolved in a million ways to what they are as an adult. Accordingly, the more homosexuality, bisexuality and polygamy becomes acceptable, the more people will end up with that sexuality and relationships.

The collective "peer pressure" is massive on many people. For example, when AIDS was more discussed including in the gay community before such conservations were totally stiffed by the extreme peer pressure against not being perfectly correct in slogans, there were gay men who claimed they deliberately got themselves infected with HIV/AIDS to fit into the particular nuclear social circle. There are people in a deaf inner nuclear social circle who seek having their hearing destroyed to be one of their own, and people who are deaf whose hearing could be medically restored who refuse for the same reason.

Interpersonal relationships and sexuality is none so simplistic as a couple of slogans by either side of this topic. "I'm gay because I was born gay" is a fully unnecessary excuse, just like "you are only gay because of trauma" is equally relatively worthless - whether that is true or not.

 

Doesn't make it a factor in making 'gay' people, either.

Maybe some feel that way. I personally wouldn't characterize my feelings about it as repulsion. More like a complete lack of interest.

 

First, how do you know what I do? What color is my skin?

Second, people have to act in their community and where she has relevance and impact. Nobody can act all over the world to solve all the worlds problems.

"White people" have a long history of fighting oppression - how many white people died in the Civil War? How many white people worked in the Underground Railroad? Didn't white people die in the civil rights movement in the 1950's and 1960's, and didn't whites protest against Jim Crow?

And in fact, what group was at the forefront of all of those fights for racial equality? The Christian Church. Look at the leadership of the civil rights movement - almost all have "Rev" in front of their name. Their meeting places were generally churches.

 

Gays are not a collection of psychologically identical clones as you assert in your "us." Rather, you ratify my notion of collective peer pressure in a desire to belong to some "us" group opposed by some "them" group.

 

Contradicting BOTH sides of the debate going on, I know people who pro-actively and for conscious reasons changed their gender-sexual practice for the specific purpose of having an overall relationship with another person, which contradicted their prior gender-sexuality relationship or so-called "orientation" or "preference."

Not EVERYONE has the relationship impulses of a fruit fly, for which the meaningful goals and purpose of a relationship isn't defined and restricted singularly by genitalia. Rather, determining a relationship is a vast collection of positives and negatives for which sexuality and gender are only 2 of
a thousand factors. Those might be particularly important factors, but the collective nature of other factors be greater in the decision process. They are each very successful, highly intelligent and notably alpha personalities who see themselves as having great self control over their lives. If the right person is seemingly the wrong gender, they adjust and modify themselves, their practices and the practices of their partner for this change. They both work thru it in regards to the greater overall relationship. Both sides of the debate going on in this thread are likely positions they (and I) see as naïve, shallow and foolish people trapped within slogans and overpowering psychological condition, meaning they have no self control over themselves.

While they could be written off with "obviously they are bisexual," that really isn't it. I could explain in a few examples of how they can adjust, but that is just too TMI for this forum. This really isn't a sexuality forum.

 

Yea, maybe 'trauma' was a bad choice of words. I prefer environmental influence. We are actually (IMO) discussing sexual urges. For instance, what makes a heterosexual male be more sexually attracted to a woman with large boobs? We think of that as 'normal' because that male is part of an overwhelming number of males in a society attracted to women. He doesn't have to 'come out' as a 'boob man' because being with, dating, having sex with and even living with a woman is the societal 'norm.'

Point taken.

 

Reading your post only reinforces my feeling on the subject. Your "just below the surface" hate and general mouthy tone is just why I pretty much cant stand "them".

 

Strawman. I haven't said that. I've only said that I think the idea that gay people get that way as the result of some trauma, is ridiculous.

On that, we can agree.

My issue is with the notion that childhood trauma causes people to be same-sex oriented. It's like people think it's some magic formula. They can never explain how they got from point 'A' to point 'B'. The fact that there are gay people who haven't experienced childhood trauma, and straight people who have, is a reality that pretty much negates the simplistic notions behind this theory.

My opinion is that I don't know what causes people to have a particular sexual orientation, and neither does anyone else. I believe that homosexuality and bisexuality are unlikely to ever become accepted as being on a par with heterosexuality. I also reject the notion that greater acceptance encourages people to 'turn gay'. The only thing it encourages is greater honesty among those who already experience same-sex or bisexual attraction.

'Bug chasers'. Yes, I've heard rumors of such. But like most heterosplaining, this characterization misses the mark. It's kind of silly to talk about the 'gay community' in any sort of literal sense that would lead to the kind of widespread peer pressure implied. Nothing of the sort exists. I personally do not live in a gayborhood and never have. I rarely interact with other gay people in my daily life, because I don't go out of my way to seek them out. So if someone felt pressured to get infected in order to fit in with a particular social circle, let's be sure that we understand we're talking about a tiny subset of the much larger, figurative 'gay community'.

My point is that I don't feel like I should have to make excuses for my sexuality, while there are clearly others who think they've a right to demand that I justify my existence to them.

 

Well, you and they are welcome to your worthless opinions about my sexuality.

 

The desperate level so many people MUST have the most simplistic, sloganistic views of human relationships and then furiously declare their 1 sentence slogan is a universal truism is absurd.

Born gay? Really? Were you born to like candy? Give candy to children who never had candy in their life and most will spit it out for how horrible it tastes. Born straight? Isolate you for life when young in a prison full of men and let's see how straight you really are. No different for imprisoned women only with women.

Another example is when all rules of behavior and morality break down, as sometimes happens in war, male soldiers are raping boys and men, not just females. Does that mean that really they were born gay?

When society and rules of behavior collapse in relation to sexuality, all the slogans about being gay and being straight on both sides of the slogan-slingers are disproven.

 

Well, I don't believe that sexuality, being a complex issue, can be summed up by slogans. But I also don't think that sexual behavior proves or disproves anything about one's sexual orientation. Orientation is but one driver of sexual behavior; the two aren't synonymous, nor does either one determine the other.

 

I listened to you and I don't believe you are a latent homosexual, or a "homophobe." I hope you are willing to listen to me.

It seems like you are just trying to understand.

I still don't know what you mean by trauma. That's still very vague.

Just so you know I've experienced the joys of being a father and a husband. In fact I'm thinking about having another child.

I don't really know if the brains of homosexuals are "wired incorrectly."

I also don't understand what you mean about homosexuals being submissive. That may just be a stereotype.

I think you have a lot of preconceived notions. I don't know if you know anybody that is homosexual. It seems you don't. Or perhaps the ones you know fit the stereotype.

Why would you be repulsed if a homosexual approached you? I am just curious.

Please explain thus trauma that you think homosexuals suffer, I don't know what you mean.

 

We actually are born to like candy. It's frankly evolutionary. candy contains sugar and sugar is our fuel. We like the calories because that is what we need to make our hearts beat and muscles work.

Now flavors may be off putting but generally yes we like candy.

 

At last a more than kind homosexual speaks.

Let's use Jim, since he was until his death, my living brother who was a homosexual.

I can tell that Jim had trauma as a child. To me, it was not that serious. But he started running away as maybe a 4 year old pre school kid. We spent hours looking for him to discover he was hiding under a local elementary scool building. The cops were involved. As a kid myself, I do not recall blowing time asking him why he ran off. Jim started wierd stuff as a young boy. Why did he point at things he wanted at the dinner table and refuse to talk?

What compelled him later on to keep track of bites of food eaten by all of us? I mean what sane kid counts bites of food eaten by family members then makes a show of it saying he needs more bites?

He always was very thin so maybe he thought he did not get sufficient food. But nobody was trying to deprive him.

When he was in the 7/8 grade, he announced to his class that he wanted to be called Suzie. The school called Mom and she was mortified. We really did not see homosexuality coming.

Anyway, not being him and living in his skin, I am still puzzled by his behaviour. Mom divorced our first father and he was a jerk. A Psychiatrist told my parents (mom and step father) that it seems Jim did not want to resemble the first father. I ascribe his actions to a trauma. I am not clear what the trauma was over, but he sure had a point of demarcation from the normal to the ... frankly extreme weird. My step dad was a wonderful, kind and caring person. As a teen, Jim would sneak into his bedroom and remove all of his underwear. I hope it was trauma. Maybe you have some ideas what happened.

I was speaking of submissive as the homosexual male assuming the role of husband needing the mating homosexual to act as the female part.

This might not be the case for all of them. I saw my own brother as the female part. He was not one bit aggressive.

 

Wow- not much of anything in your post actually is correct. As a father who raised a child, let me assure you- no candy was spit out the first time it was tried by my child.

I don't know for certain that every person who claims to be gay or straight was born that way- and I really don't care. WHY someone is gay or straight is frankly immaterial- there is no rational reason to treat someone differently simply based upon the gender that they are attracted to.

 

True. That happens too.

 

Wow- it sounds like your brother really had some issues.

What did he tell you about his life?

Why would you expect anyone else to know more about your brother than you yourself?

I have known a few people with mental problems- and I have some very good gay friends. None of my gay friends have any significant mental issues, but given the percentages it would not be likely.

I am really curious about what discussions you ever had with your brother regarding his 'trauma' and his sexual identity.

 

I think what you are speaking of may better be explained by sexuality being much less 'black and white' than we would like to think it is.

I knew one woman who identifies as a heterosexual, but was in love with another woman- and sexually involved with her for years.

I know of a man who married, and fathered two children, and had his marriage fall apart- because while he could sexually perform with a woman- he was really attracted to men- and unable to provide the kind of attraction his very hetero wife wanted. Now married to a man, both his professional life and his married life are far, far better.

 

Yes. Sexuality is NOT as 'binary' as many have often thought it to be.