Gaza started shooting rockets on Israel cities again

If that retard reality would be true, than the nazi's had all the rights to get rid of the Jews, since they do not belonged in all them places where they got massacred.

 

You support to get rid of all Jews ?
You support any kind of killing ?

 

"RULES:

1. ENGLISH IS THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THIS WEBSITE

We warmly welcome members from all over the world, and value their insights and perspectives. And, we understand that communicating in English can be difficult for people who did not grow up speaking the language. Nevertheless, we ask that people post their public messages in English so that everyone can understand them, and that material linked on Youtube or other websites also be in English. "

 

Yes those are the supposed borders considered by archaeologists, not actual borders
delineated by treaty and using detailed maps. The point stands.

1/ Sorry Drew but you’ve repeatedly made the statement that the Palestinians could not and cannot be afforded a say in Palestine’s future according to one man one vote rather than on an ethnic basis because they were never a state before whereas the Jews were.
2/ I have demonstrated why that argument is nonsense as the prior kingdom was not a state, indeed as no other states existed long before. Neither Britain, Scotland nor any other place had the attributes of the nation state that you state the Palestinians never had – therefore again your argument makes no sense.

1/ They were prevented from having an independent state over all the land they lived on as a majority by both Ottomans, Egyptians, Britain and Israel.
2/ The prior existence of a state is nowhere in history is any argument for political rights, if it were then at least half the worlds states could not exist as like Israel they were mostly created out of thin air.

Red herring. The acknowledgement of ancient history doesn’t mean they recognise a nation of Israel. Nor does it mean they recognise that a mob of Palestinians squatted on Jewish land. That’s just you and your bigotry.

1/ If the subject was simply who’s land it is, that’s all you would have said, instead we get this tirade about terrorism, forgetting that it existed and exists on all sides.
2/ Its true that Jews have rights, but not every Jew on the planet has rights in Palestine. Just as not every Christian, or muslims has this.
3/You say they ‘intended to murder every Jew’ . There’s little evidence for that. However, there is plenty of evidence that Zionists intended to take the land from those who had lived there for a long long time. Moreover terrorism was and is prevalent on all sides so that is a groundless charge.
4/ Hamas is a guerrilla organisation who, like Zionist organisations have used terrorism in the past. Your continued use of the charge of terrorism ignores the fact that this tactic is prevalent on all sides.

5/ And no, your ignoring actual history again, Palestinians refused partition some time before war broke out on the declaration of independence. In fact Zionist forces were cleansing villages before that declaration.

6/ In fact, Palestinians commonly go against soldiers, in fact they protest again and again over decades – or they simply try to keep their houses.

LOL. And before the Arab League was the rejection of partition by the Palestinians. Would you like a source/ reference and specific date?

Eh no, they asked over and over. And were denied by an imperial power. So they did what anyone else would do and has always done, see the history of terrorism – prove me wrong.

Eh no, suicide bombing didn’t occur til much later. Before that was bomb attacks on Palestinian market places and the cleansing of whole families by Zionist forces, which youre justifying and excusing by your ignorance – why would you do that?

No fibbing whatsoever, go ahead and name any actual fib. The Zionists intended to take the land and were resisted.

No you don’t need to dig anything up, it was all there already. The roads the towns, the ports, the farms all of it.

Planning the next child murder? So Ill counter that Israel are planning to take another roof from a child… They did not build build squalor and hardship, just Islamophobe bigoted nonsense.
This stereotype propaganda is the mark of your desperation.

LOL, pathetic. Here read this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Ancient_origins

You said they had states before. They did not. Ancient kingdoms did indeed exist. Various tribes have all settled and left in Palestine and the descendents of the ancient peoples resided there in the 20th century. The arabs, be they muslims Christians, Samaritans or whomever all had as much right as anyone to live there and decide the fate – the land however, was not any one peoples to own.

LOL, the link takes you to a wiki paragraph on the United States followed by paragraphs on the ottoman empire, Ireland, Palestine, ww2 etc etc. Go ahead read it all.

Oh it exists alright. But its not a modern nation state. It’s a kingdom ruled by and for the House Of Saud. Indeed the ancient kingdoms did exist and the people in it also existed. As did the Palestinians. So therefore you have no problem with them.

They didn’t remain a nation. The Jews in Palestine maintained their religious and cultural identity, as did the Palestinians. They lived under many different rulers, but never left and continued to build the land they lived on.

Actually we gained an awful lot. Political independence for one. And we then joined the UK of our own free will such as it was at the time.

Its not all over. Palestine is going to gain its independence in the west bank and will out breed the Jewish people within Israel.

Moreover you’ve just undermined your own argument by asserting that since ancient Israel was usurped then that established fact is justification enough for whatever happens next –namely if Israel was ever to be wiped out and overrun you could have no objection – because your argument fundamentally is that might = right.

So let us begin what?

Jewish participation in resistance was nowhere near the same numbers in Palestine. Moreover Jewish participation doesn’t give them more rights to land in Palestine only equal, and none if you don’t actually live there.

Yes they have - the Palestinian arabs are descended from the Caananites. Who’s blood do you think has always been there? The arabs of Palestine have blood links to arabs from Arabia and those who stayed in Palestine and the Levant the whole time – do you really think it was only Jewish people who stayed in Palestine?
When a person leaves the cottage for the winter and doesn’t return for thousands of years the cottage doesn’t exist and whoever has been there for all that time and is still there is the legitimate owner.

What does that mean? Do you put your hand on your heart when the stars and stripes are played?

Ill ignore most of this trolling rubbish, but one point. Jews in Palestine had as much right to a state as anyone. But not their own, and their friends in Europe did not have the same right either – because its illogical and immoral. That’s being fair to all sides. For you to give special rights to Jews is for you to treat them as somehow different, which is anti-Semitic in itself.

Only reading what you yourself wrote – however, taking what you meant to say, they were indeed genetically from there. They were also from Europe too as they had mixed with the local population over centuries. This backs my argument that you cannot give land to anyone who’s ancestors may have came from somewhere be they Arab, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Samaritan or whatever.

Look into the history of humanity itself, and the actual location of most Jews throughout history. If you wish to argue along genetic heritage lines, then please provide an over view of the genetic heritage of the peoples of Palestine that we may examine the matter more closely rather than theoretical extrapolation. You failure to do so will be taken as proof that you have no wish to get down to the real facts.

They didn’t forfeit anything. And again, you refuse to acknowledge or counter that that’s why the Palestinians cannot be called squatters. Its completely impossible to call them squatters by that definition.

Oh no, it was the Jewish who had a gift for terrorism. They terrorised and have killed a lot more people.

What do you mean a scant few? The example clearly shows that most Jews that day were saved by Arabs. Over 500% of the numbers killed were saved by their Arab neighbours.

If you continue your Islamophobic bigotry or start onto anti jewish bigotry of any of that sort then Ive no qualms calling you out for it. Even if I’m banned for it. So watch it, when you communicate with me. The future of mankind has no place for those who harbour such views.

Indeed but shouldn’t you be disagreeing or qualifying your agreement in some way? You agree that if you haven’t lived and built in the country then your claims have no moral and logical validity? Surely we can agree on that now you’ve said that this will apply to Israel in the future when everyone there is a natural born indigenous person

AH you suffered a ‘lapse in internet’. LOL. How convenient.
The Palestinians are linked to most of these people in various ways. So that proves me correct again.

Canaan. But it wasn’t a state, as the Israelites weren’t a state either.

No they weren’t, and most of them left anyway. The land has always been inhabited by various peoples. Drew.

Just more bigoted nonsense. They did not try to kill every Jew, if they had there wouldn’t be any Jews there as they centuries to do it.

No destruction of the Jewish people as Israel is not the Jewish people nor is Hamas the Palestinian people.
Using a religious passage as a call to resistance is not a call to kill all Jews everywhere either – more pathetic Islamophobe bigotry.

Guess you are making things up, read the Palestinian Authority’s own statements –
http://www.nad-plo.org

 

No he's saying you support the same reality as the Nazi's, who considered it their duty to kill those who do not belong etc etc

- - - Updated - - -

So, any nation or peoples have rights to anywhere they can claim an ancient kingdom or from where attacks come from correct? Is that what youre saying now?

 

I suppose we shall just go on with the accepted borders of 1967 then unless of course it is necessary to occupy other territory to stop attacks.

It certainly is now and, has recognized borders and holds those borders unlike Palestine who does not so, appears you are locked in your own criteria of what a state is and, Palestinians don’t have one and Israel does.

You are right, Palestinians never had a state or ruled a land.

And with this quip you just washed any rights the Palestinians ever had to having a right to the land.

My bigotry? You mean your bigotry. In your mind Jews have no rights despite a documented historical presence with structures thousands of years old still standing to this day but Palestinians do despite only having a mud hut that they left behind when they departed.

Except that today, a Palestinian government used terrorism as their foreign policy and their people as human shields.

They do now as Israel has ruled it so and as we know, Israel is a nation, country, full member of the UN.

How does one propose to destroy the entire country without killing every Jew? Surgical extraction, particle beam transportation what?

In the past? This is all you have? Hamas uses it everyday in the form of rocket attacks on civilians and in the past have conducted worse.

And the Palestinians according to you will outnumber the Jews very soon. Seems your ‘cleansing’ wasn’t what you are attempting to portray it as.

QUOTE=creation;1063705783] [6/ In fact, Palestinians commonly go against soldiers, in fact they protest again and again over decades – or they simply try to keep their houses.[/quote]

Protesting, “going against soldiers?” Please tell us how these stone throwers are anything more than a publicity stunt for the western media rather than attacks on Israel and it’s military forces. If Al Quassam rockets deliberately targeting civilians were full of rocks then would that be 'protesting' in your mind?

Yes I would thanks as I smell a rat.

Strange, the imperial power granted them this wish via 181.

Did Scotland cross the border and slit the throats of British children to win their independence? Please tell me your people didn’t do this as a form of policy as I had your guys pegged as heroes in kilts rather than heinous scum.

Why would I ignore that the Palestinians began this entire cycle in 1929?

“whose stated intention was to take the land” and you repeated it here. Please tell us how Jews wishing to enter Israel were suddenly responsible for taking the land that was theirs to begin with and then show how accepting 181 which was certainly not in keeping with taking the land but rather taking their share of the land is heinous considering it was theirs to begin with. On the other hand, Palestinians wish to take all the land, from the river to the sea but, are generous enough to allow what they (and you would) call original Jews to live under their rule.

All of it built on ancient Jewish land which has now been resurrected complete with cities and palaces.

You could counter but would fail as the roofs that are destroyed are those of either homes that are built illegally, on top of tunnels and destroyed to safeguard occupants and the possibility of more tunnels or to remover the dens where terrorist activities are planned and executed from.

What does a wiki article bout Greece have to do with the fact that ancient Judea was a democratic nation?

So the people who are historically and without doubt from there and left their mark on history have no right to the land but rather those who came tumbling in after as squatters do. No matter how you look at it the Palestinians are either squatters or peole with no right to the land as most left same as the Jews did.

Did and found this;

“Following the 1929 Hebron massacre of 67 Jewish settlers in the British Mandate of Palestine, the Zionist settlers militia Haganah transformed itself into a paramilitary force. In 1931, however, a more militant Irgun broke away from Haganah, objecting to Haganah's policy of restraint toward Arabs fighting Jewish settlers.”

And this;

“Operating in the British Mandate of Palestine in the 1930s, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam organized and established the Black Hand, an anti-Zionist militia. He recruited and arranged military training for peasants, and by 1935 had enlisted between 200 and 800 men. Al-Qassam obtained a fatwa from Shaykh Badr al-Din al-Taji al-Hasani, the Mufti of Damascus, authorizing armed resistance against the British and Jews of Palestine. Black Hand cells were equipped with bombs and firearms, which they used to kill Zionist settlers.[87][88] Although al-Qassam's revolt was unsuccessful in his lifetime, many organizations gained inspiration from his revolutionary example.[87] He became a popular hero and an inspiration to subsequent Arab militants, who in the 1936–39 Arab revolt, called themselves Qassamiyun, followers of al-Qassam.”

And this;

“Fatah was organized as a Palestinian nationalist group in 1954, and exists today as a political party in Palestine. In 1967 it joined the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), an umbrella organization for secular Palestinian nationalist groups formed in 1964. The PLO began its own armed operations in 1965.[113] The PLO's membership is made up of separate and possibly contending paramilitary and political factions, the largest of which are Fatah, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), and Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP).[114][115] Factions of the PLO have advocated or carried out acts of terrorism.[115] Abu Iyad organized the Fatah splinter group Black September in 1970; the group is best known for seizing eleven Israeli athletes as hostages at the September 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich. All the athletes and five Black September operatives died during a gun battle with the West German police, in what was later known as the Munich massacre.[116] The PFLP was founded in 1967 by George Habash,[117][year missing] and on September 6, 1970, the group hijacked three international passenger planes, landing two of them in Jordan and blowing up the third.[118] Fatah leader and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat publicly renounced terrorism in December 1988 on behalf of the PLO, but Israel has stated it has proof that Arafat continued to sponsor terrorism until his death in 2004.[115][119]
In the 1974 Ma'alot massacre 22 Israeli high school students, aged 14–16, from Safed were killed by three members of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine.[120] Before reaching the school, the trio shot and killed two Arab women, a Jewish man, his pregnant wife, and their 4 year old son, and wounded several others.[121]”

So while not a state but rather an ancient kingdom, Saudi Arabia is a member of the UN. Strange, I wasn’t aware the UN allowed membership to non nations and ancient kingdoms who were not countries. In all seriousness Creation.

Right, because under Muslim rule they were second class citizens who were not permitted to own land. Now they are not and do own land.

After a few more battles.

So much for accusations and the fantasy of genocide.

 

What has that to do with it?
It's a fact that Germany is a country where the arian race lives since as long as anybody remembers.
And according to you,.. such people got every right to just ethnically cleanse others away from their homeland.
That's you supporting a nazi like doctrine of Ein Volk, ein Reich (ein Führer)

 

According to modern researches the Arian Race, if there really was that kind of race, created the Persain and the Southern Slavic people, and not the germans.
In the end of the 19th Century there was an idea that the Arain race came from outside Europe and actually a lot of the European languages created from the Persian and Indian Languages. From the researches, that took place in the 19th century, found that there was a resemblance between Avesta language and the Sanskrit language to Latin, Greek, German and Celtic languages, BUT still the german killed a lot of Greek people, funny.

 

No one gives a toss what you suppose. And the borders of 48 or 67 are not accepted. Israel had its chance to take more territory, it didnt work out.

It may well be a state now, but your argument against Palestinians keeping their land and for Israelis taking land is the prior existence of a state - that argument no longer stands.

As for having a state now, the variances of a belligerent power have never been a logical or moral argument for a state.

Yes but that's an irrelevant point logically or morally. Neither did most states. Including Israel.

No I simply washed any argument on this point you've made, using historical example, logic and morality.

Oh if I had meant my bigotry I would have said so. But Im not bigoted, because I recognise that Jews born in a land have the same rights as anyone in that land. You however, want to give Jews rights both in the land they were born in and in Palestine, while taking away the rights of Palestinians born in Palestine – that’s both conceited, illogical, and evil.

As for historical structures, far far more of the country's structures still standing were built by Palestinians, not Israelis - youre flat out wrong on that.

Except that that is nonsense. Trying to paint Palestinians as more willing to oppress and kill innocent people flies in the face of the facts of history.

Israel is able to rule it, because the US protects them from numerous UN resolutions against their evil practices, and it defies those it that cannot be vetoed by the USA - like any other dodgy country and people.

Like the Zionists took over Palestine. Read the detailed history of that have you? Wanna know more?

LOL. Nonsense, that's no more a terror attack than an Israeli strike killing civilians is a terror attack. The only difference is Israelis have more expensive weapons.

My god, your responses are pathetic. Some 400 villages and 700, 000 people is still ethnic cleansing. Try again.

Protesting, “going against soldiers?” Please tell us how these stone throwers are anything more than a publicity stunt for the western media rather than attacks on Israel and it’s military forces. If Al Quassam rockets deliberately targeting civilians were full of rocks then would that be 'protesting' in your mind?
[/QUOTE]

Simple protest as goes on across the world by every people at every time. The Israeli military patrols into Palestinian villages and towns and are attacked with stones, they take over land and are protested against with demonstrations. Al Qassam rockets are a small part of the continuously ongoing and daily resistance against Israeli policies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Palestine

Actually it abstained. Why would it do that that and why would you be ignorant about something you were so sure you had a handle on? That's strange too dont you think? What excuse do you have now for your ignorance? Lemme guess, it doesnt matter cos your still a decent person and right about everything....ok?

Eh no, in fact we had our women and children killed, and our lands taken many times. We also retaliated in kind.

The cycle was begun before that, with the imperial imposition of an immigrant people.

Read the quotes of various zionists about Palestine and their intentions.

It couldnt be their share as mostly they lived and were born in europe. And Palestinians only claim was based on the numbers of people who were actually born on the land and lived there - the only legitimate basis to any claim.

It was already built and lived on by living and working people. Not by long dead people whos descendants had mostly lived elsewhere.

The homes are not illegal. Thats proven by the ICJ advisory opinion and Israeli high court opinion.

More pathetic argumentation. Greek democracy is based on alot more than the opinions of one biased author posted in a Jewish website.

Yes Jews like you and me have rights to where they were born and live and nowhere else. Palestinians had the exact same rights, to live the on land they lived on and nowhere else.
As has been pointed out, Palestinians aren't squatters.

Good for you, you found numerous references to terrorism by both sides in the Israeli / Palestinian conflict and around the world.

Anything more you think needs to be posted from this link?

Not an ancient kingdom, they started in the 20th century remember?

Saudi Arabia despite its recognition by the UN is not a modern nation state by most terms of definition. A pity that in your twisted argument youll soon find yourself trying to justify the creation and structure of Saudia Arabia. Thats where evil will take you.

They did in fact own land in Palestine.

Those battles were not between england and scotland. They were more complicated affairs. Why on earth would you try to divert yourself into Scottish history despite your ignorance? Is there some golden principle here you’d like to elucidate?

What are you talking about? Lying your ass off again Drew? Going to quote me mentioning genocide are you?

Ive never stated they dont have a right because they were usurped. Ive asserted they dont have a right because they werent born there. Get your facts right for once Drew.

I never said were going to begin in the here and now, that's what you want.
I've said we begin in the original invasion of Palestine by european jews intent on taking the country from a people who'd lived there in large numbers for centuries and in whom the majority wished no more than anyone else on the planet would wish but to live in peace in an undivided land as anyone else would wish..

We don’t know any such thing. The original Zionist congress debating beginning a jewish state all over the world for gods sake. And records of people other than Jewish in the Levant abound.

Here;
1/ DNA evidence – http://news.sciencemag.org/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry
2/ Caananite kingdom, not a state( that’s your contention about ancient Israel, not mine) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caanan
Now please list your objections in number order;

Sure it does, most Arabs are innocent of any crimes committed against Jewish people who have thrived in the Middle East much better than in Europe and stop moving the goalposts with this second class citizen rubbish you didn’t even mention before.

Actually that’s not true as your supposition that the existence or otherwise of a kingdom (not a state) gives Jewish people more rights to the land is completely false and without foundation. One cannot logically or morally give you me or anyone more rights to control land than someone who actually lives there. There is no historical precedent or moral principle that would support your supposition.
And why do you keep mentioning goat trails and mud huts? That’s not what they’ve built there – would you like to see photographs?

When did I say Palestinians have a right to return to Israel? If youre not actually born there then of course you don’t have rights there. Same principle applies to everyone.
But you want to make an exception for Jews, which is treating them differently, which is inherently Anti-Semitic.

If there exist more mud huts, roads, houses, villages, farms, ports, towns, market places, schools, hospitals, mosques, churches, synagogues, telephones exchanges, public parks, squares, halls and factories etc etc etc and humans in large numbers then why wouldn’t that trump any palaces? Explain your thinking here.
And a mud hut houses and protects families, far more important and vital than a palace. You agree with that right?

There are no special cases among humans, we are all equal.

I don’t wish to use this as an argument, because to think that a convert to Judaism has as much right if not more to Palestine than an arab muslim or Christian who has always lived there is even more ridiculous. This is the racist and anti- semitic fantasy you propose and refuse to defend

Eh no it was you who specifically asked for genetic data. Not me. You wish to make your case based on genetic heritage – so therefore its your duty to give us an overview of the matter and explain it all to us. You’ve got the courage and knowledge to do that don’t you?

They certainly did not, the concept does not exist except in your mind. Most of them were living peacefully in their homes. They already had their own country, it was ruled by foreign power that’s all.

The offer was not generous in any way shape or form

Would you also say ethnic cleansing by terror is terrorism? Would you say blowing up market places, arbitrary arrests without trial, house demolitions without legal recourse etc etc is not terrorism?

Are you saying these families weren’t benevolent? Whats wrong with you?

Palestinians are nothing but squatters who live in mud huts for starters. This would be fair comment if you could defend it in detail but you don’t even try so therefore its trolling bigotry. Im not interested in pejorative terms you cant even back up, its not clever and just makes you look stupid.

That would be true if I had ever argued for the rights of dead Palestinian’s descendants to reside in Israel. I have not therefore my argument stands and yours does not – how does that feel?

Very what? Stupid of you? Please go on…tell us how smart you are and how stupid Palestinians are in their mud huts etc etc.

LOL. Ive never mentioned any racial agenda. It was you who wanted to discuss genetic heritage remember? Ill bet you don’t now, getting hot under the collar are we? Feel the pressure rising as you struggle for a coherent answer?

Wow, and here your argument has become that it has to be land that belongs to any Jewish person in the world, whether or not they have ancestry directly from there, because of the Bible.

Which is of course a ridiculous argument to make because people across the world do not make their claims based on such texts and moreover there is no evidence for the existence or otherwise of Jehovah.

No not a state, that’s been clarified. And they were no more a nation than Palestinians are a nation. The land being occupied is the only valid criteria of judgement, there is no need for the existence of anyone as an organised people as political organisation is a nebulous concept that varies over time, just as the Jew’s own organisation did. The only criteria that is credible, definable and real is the amount of occupation of the land and stable nature of the lives lived on it.

Your criteria for judging who’s land it must all be, political organisation, does not logically or morally hold up.

There is no evidence for that so your point is invalid.

Im no more a girl than you are.
The exact same way the Zionist forces did starting in 1888 and ending in 1947-8.

Oh yes Ive read it many times. Clearly you’ve been reading too many Islamophobe websites. It’s a religiously based call to arms.
And what’s a left wing echo chamber lizard? Is that an insulting term or a real reference?

Stop sourcing your rubbish from propaganda sites such as ‘myths and facts’. I gave you their actual government policy website. The Israeli government and the US already agreed that the objectionable contents of the charter were abrogated years ago.

Is that the case even if the said land is full of people who have always lived there and would oppose this invasion?

What is the logical and moral basis for this argument ?

How is this argument supported by the UN charter?

 

Germans should live in Germany.. Arabs should leave to their 52 countries.. What's wrong with that ?
Have you met a German which left his country with his family and invaded Iraq or Lybia ? No.
If you'll give a gun i'll shoot Nazis.

 

Everything is well and good... because Israel is a Democracy and Bibi <laissez faire> attitude has generated the following .
Nazi-style rally in Jerusalem...
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/n...mas-rally-in-Al-Quds-635x357_jpg_3F1395846374

 

Wow, calm down please. Israel could have taken the entire area if they had wished as they were certainly not constrained by an Arab force at that point.

Only in your mind as everybody knows Judea and Israel existed as an organized entity which controlled the area.

State (polity)
A state is an organized community living under one government

Wiki
The nation state is a state that self-identifies as deriving its political legitimacy from serving as a sovereign entity for a nation as a sovereign territorial unit.[1] The state is a political and geopolitical entity, while the nation is a cultural and ethnic one; the term "nation state" implies that the two coincide geographically. Nation state formation took place at different times in different parts of the world, but has become the dominant form of state organization.

Well take it up with the UN as your personal bias are of no interest or weight in this discussion. In fact, you put it quite nicely when you said &#8220;No one gives a toss what you suppose.&#8221;

So here we have it, denial. You deny that Israel controls the land in the Levant. I suppose nobody does or the Palestinians do? Or a dragon or God does? Golly you make me laugh Creation, maybe we could be friends so that you could come over and entertain me and my friends (after you have a few beers to loosen up with so you&#8217;re not so angry anyhow.)

Nope. You said that having a state is no argument for political rights. Hence, not having anything but the history of being a squatter on anothers land gives you nothing as the rights of those who had the state come first and those who squatted second.

Nope. It recognizes that people who were forced from their land have rights when all things are equal. As Palestinians never had a state they don&#8217;t have that right and are subject to the will of those who control the state which is not them.

Please provide some proof of this as from what I understand roads and ports built by foreign occupiers as well as railways and cities built on former Jewish land doesn&#8217;t entitle Palestinians to claim their forte as engineering.

I said today. Please calm down and read what I write so your replies will contribute to the discussion.

Dodgy people?

Please explain.

Nope. I&#8217;d like to know the answer to my question which was;

&#8220;How does one propose to destroy the entire country without killing every Jew? Surgical extraction, particle beam transportation what? &#8221;

One of the more widely accepted definitions of terrorism is by the FBI who state;

&#8220;"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
&#8226; Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
&#8226; Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
&#8226; Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*&#8221;
So, a rocket attack is designed purely to target civilians and violates state law. I is intended to intimidate civilians in order to influence the policy of the Israeli government

On the other hand, Israeli actions to stop terrorism are legal as they are at war with Palestine and the terrorist organization Hamas and, are not targeting civilians but rather military assets of the terrorist organization.

Just going by your word that the Palestinians will outnumber the Jews.

They are at war with the Palestinians since it was declared on them by same since 1948 and legally occupy some territory and the actions of stone throwing are illegal. BTW, demonstrations should be peaceful and, as the Palestinains becgan this war with violence, perhaps they might try changing their tactics.

Resistance? Oh, your word for terrorism of course. How is deliberately targeting and killing civilians resisting anything?

You said;
&#8220;And before the Arab League was the rejection of partition by the Palestinians. Would you like a source/ reference and specific date?&#8221;

Thanks for the source but nowhere is the date and reference for the Palestinians refusing shown.

They ended the mandate and 181 took force in other words, through their actions 181 became reality. You yourself have said that the British were on the side of the Jews on more than one occasion.

Ok ok, I&#8217;ll be your friend Creation. Just pull my finger and stop coming unglued and contribute to the discussion please.

So you did cross the border and slit the throats of British children to win your independence. I can see now why you feel that Palestinian terrorism is genuine resistance.

From your link;
&#8220;In effect the British continued to carry out its White Paper policy.[28] The recommendations triggered violent demonstrations in the Arab states, and calls for a Jihad and an annihilation of all European Jews in Palestine.[29]&#8221;

Lol, murdering every Jew from Europe. Golly, you and your pals are a hoot!

And you might read the official documents such as the Israeli Declaration of Independence.

In the past sixty years few Palestinians were born there so they may as well lay claim to the only land they have, Gaza according to your logic.

Then Israel is now been built by Jews and a few Arabs, not those committing terrorism so, they can continue to live elsewhere as they have according to your logic lost any claim long ago.

Show me the law stating that allowing a tunnel entrance under your home in time of war is legal please.

Actually they don&#8217;t base it on anything Jewish so where you came up with that is strange but, as shown, Jews had the concepts of democracy just fine.

And has been pointed out and proved, outside f modern times there has never been an entity known as the Palestinians so they are.

Nope. The historical use of terrorism by Palestinians and exclusive use in recent times speaks volumes.

House of Saud certainly but the history of the land and people as a state and common peoples goes back thousands of years.

Arabs are evil or Muslims are evil to you? Please clarify.

And now own a lot more.

My ignorance? You said Scotland became independent at Stirling Bridge when it didn't. Perhaps we can get somebody from Scotland to educate you on this matter.

You just said that Palestinians will outnumber Jews and then in the next breath say there is a genocide. Make up your mind please, a population increase doesn't provide anything factual to base and defend a wild azzed claim of genocide on.

"No one gives a toss what you suppose" They now have the right and always did.

Assuming of course that the Jews were not the original claimants&#8217; to the land which we all know they were as no record of a state, formal group of Palestinian people existed. "in any case, I never said were going to begin in the ("original migration to Palestine by European Jews",) that's what you want" (Parenthesis mine)

Please show other claimants who have come forward stating that they had a state or empire and have claim to the Levant.

That's nice. What was their ruling and what authority did they use to act on it?

And which ones have made clam to the Levant and what societies can they prove they had and controlled for hundreds of years in same?

1. "show me the Caananite kingdom and how it &#8220;cannot be divided up, has a constitution that defines a core national group, introduces equality before the law for all members of the nation, and provides for &#8220;popular rule&#8221; by some form of elected body&#8221;

2. - ..... Same as above.

I did above;

"Palestinians wish to take all the land, from the river to the sea but, are generous enough to allow what they (and you would) call original Jews to live under their rule. "

and in the prior post;

"And they tried but to no avail. Seems that when a Jew doesn&#8217;t adhere to being a Dhimmi they become a target for terrorism and murder. "

Pretty much every war in history.

I certainly would like to see photos of fine engineering and industry marvels accomplished by Palestinians themselves rather than the rash of occupation nations. Have you any?

If none have the right to do so then why on earth are you even on this thread?

Because it is built on somebody elses land. Golly, thought that was clear a month ago.

And they now have that in Gaza and the West bank.

When all things are equal however when dealing with an ancestral home which is backed up by historical evidence to support one side against those who moved in like locusts years later things are not so equal.

Not really as being Jewish is also an ethnic and societal thing. As I summed it up;

"Judaism is a combination of religion, ethnicity and is racial only when anti Semitism rears it&#8217;s ugly head in the form of persecution which, is pretty much most of the reason why Zionism became such a popular movement"

Actually I asked you if your argument against Euro Jews was provable in a practical manner and if you would use genetics to separate them and we then got onto this portion of the discussion. I asked for it in order to have you show us how you would separate those from Europe and those who were from the Levant. If you can&#8217;t show us then your antics are moot.

What was their country called and what was it&#8217;s capital, leaders, system of government?

Squatters getting an offer to own part of the land they squatted on is not generous? Incredible.

If it fits in with the bulk of widely accepted definitions of terrorism then yes, if no then no.

Some individuals were but the perpetrators not. What is wrong that you cannot understand this?

I have. You believe that having a recognized state is not acceptable to being given ownership but simply existing on a piece of land trumps all historical evidence and rights.

So your entire argument is so a handful of Palestinians who left Israel voluntarily may return once a peace treaty is signed. How many exist now and how many will exist when the treaty is signed do you think? Once we can come to an agreement on when then we can extrapolate on how many survivors there would be and if they even wish to leave their homes.

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As I said I asked if this were how you were going to separate Euro Jews from Levant Jews and then we both began discussing this but perhaps you can explain how &#8220;The Palestinians are linked to most of these people in various ways&#8221; and how an entire peoples can be classed by yourself as &#8220;like any other dodgy country and people."

Never said anything about the Bible but rather literature so please try to stay on topic.

Never said there was. Please go back and actually read my post rather than carry on with your self made back and forth strawmen.

Refer to the definition of state as I supplied above in this post and be sure to return with an argument or agreement as what you have right now is zip.

As somebody stated earlier &#8220;No one gives a toss what you suppose.&#8221; So please, for God&#8217;s sake, back this up with something other than opinion.

At what point were the Arab forces going to stop in 1948? Provide supporting proof that they only intended to free part of the Levant and leave enclaves for Jews to live in complete freedom and retain ownership of their seven percent of the land. Lacking this we can surmise they intended to kill them all and, to this day, both Charters state the destruction of Israel as their goal.

By inciting riots and massacring Jews until the Jews respond in kind?

First time i've eve heard of Yale being referred to as an "Islamophobe Website" but, desperation brings out the strange in people.

It certainly is and, it is the official Charter of the government that rules Gaza.

It&#8217;s the toss where you seem to get your ideas and info from.

Sorry, possibly you might like this one better;

http://www.voltairenet.org/article163913.html

In any case, a quick look around the internet will provide you with what you already know - that the constitution of Fatah contains the policy of destroying Israel so which portion in the charters that I have linked to do not belong and when were they changed? By what voting margin and at which meeting?

You gave a website which is not an official charter and no, the objectionable contents were never changed years ago or to this day as they have never met and voted to do so and therefore, I believe you are either mistaken or lying that "The Israeli government and the US already agreed that the objectionable contents of the charter were abrogated years ago" as their Charter remains the same as it was. Even though the intent to change it was put forth by Arafat it has never been changed and therefore remains the official position of the PA.

Please bone up on your info and return when you are ready.

181.

 

Unfortuately for you the United Nations and a majority of the world's governments, including your main benefactor and 'ally', the USA, agree that the Palestinians have a case, a just cause and their admission to the UN as an Observer State (note the word 'state') is proof of this. It will not be long until Palestine acieves full statehood and all the legality and access to the powers of international law which that implies.
Furthermore it is clear, as international law makes abundantly plain, that it is the Israelis who are the squatters in the Occupied Territories to which they have no legal right whatsoever. Israel has been condemned for this time and time again, including by your allies. I do, however, admire your tenacity however misplaced and futile it may be.

 

This misplaced tenacity, this warped thinking, this fallacious statement (Israelis are squatters???????) is in fact a futile attempt by this baseless belief and this twisted/bent tale propagated by a revengeful pole because of his Jewish step father... I suppose.

 

Israel has ling been recognized as a State by everyone but the Muslims who oppose it.
They need ignore this whole issue and focus of International Laws against attacking the State of Israel.

What Israel need do is to notify Hamas that any attacks against Israel will be seen as a State-of-War.
Then, they need fully attack the Gaza site and force mass transportation of all people into Egypt or Jordan.
They need take Gaza as a jewish part of their state and force an end to this proximity which allows the consistent bombing and attacks.

 

E X A C T L Y !!!!!!!!!!!!

It is either we show our resolve and beat the enemy or show that we are a wishy washy listening to promises fools!
Imagine we beat Hamas the PA, the PLO to a pulp... You think Europe will deliver contributions and bet on a losing horse?

 

Sending money to these quasi-leaders who use the hate of the people who tried to attack the Jews back in 1948 has only increased their numbers as others have joined their ranks and spread a wave propaganda through the world that has israel torn between defense and toleration.

What we see today is Arabia caving in as shiite fights sunni and political leaders who have become oppressive forces.
This is prophecy coming true.

The scripture informs Israel that now is the time to send Iran a message, that she must stop the Nuclear activity now, or suffer A-bombs at the sites they are using.
Gaza and the West bank need one final chance to accept the terms of Pea e, as israel will dictate them, or suffer invasion and removal from the land of Israel and the territory they now hold.
These things will not be so popular, but Europe is unable to oppose such actions, Russia is busy with Ukraine, and all the Arabs are fighting already everywhere among themselves.



Now is the hour for a final overture to these peoples, or their removal.

 

Sorry but you keep answering points with ‘I suppose’ as if it makes a difference. Youre better off simply putting forward the counter argument;
Israel could not have taken the entire area and your statement that Israel could have taken more is proven wrong by events, like the 73 war. It tried and failed to take more. Read the history of the campaigns of 48 there are sound logistical reasons Israel has only gone so far.

Everybody knows it, they also know its irrelevant. So again your argument against Palestinians keeping their land and for Israelis taking land is the prior existence of a state - that argument no longer stands.

Yes the UN is an international forum, not an arbiter of moral value and many people do take it up with the UN as Resolution 181 contravenenes Article one of the UNs own charter. Moreover Israel is already recognised by the ICJ in its advisory opinion as existing on occupied land therefore again making your claims of the land being essentially Jewish a nonsense.

Please explain what you’re talking about, Ive stated that its an Irrelevant point and why as most states including Israel didn’t either. Now its your turn to tell me why it is relevant – is it perhaps that you think the point is relevant simply because Israel controls the area now?

No as Ive said before, the prior existence of states or kingdoms or anything long before is no argument for political rights. However, actually living there and having directly familial lineage there comes first over all other claims. There were and are no squatters in Palestine.

People long dead have no rights, nor do their children born and living in other countries far away long before the existence of international law. Those people forced from their lands no longer have rights because no longer exist. The existence of a state is irrelevant to that point.

All the buildings you can see in the old photographs were built by local people, including the ports and roads etc etc not foreign occupiers.

Today or yesterday the answer is the same - Trying to paint Palestinians as more willing to oppress and kill innocent people flies in the face of the facts of history.

Israel ignores those resolutions it cannot defeat through its benefactor, it pretends it is not guilty of wholesale mass punishments and stealing land from innocent families and communities. That’s dodgy. Israel is able to rule it, because the US protects them from numerous UN resolutions against their evil practices, and it defies those it that cannot be vetoed by the USA - like any other dodgy country and people.

And Ive answered you, like the Zionist forces took over Palestine. Whats the problem? Got an issue with the details of that campaign?

Eh no that’s wrong;
1/ Rocket attacks are not designed to purely target civilians. Theyre designed to respond to the attacks on Gazans.
2/ Israeli actions are not legal as they are not at war with Palestine. They occupy large parts of it and seek more. Moreover they seek to intimidate the population by blowing up civilians in there attacks on Hamas targets.
3/ Their last invasion killed thousands of innocent people and was caused by Israel who broke the original ceasefire.

LOL, pathetic, some 400 villages and 700, 000 people is still ethnic cleansing. Try again.

The specific occupied territories are already proven to not be Israel land by both the ICJ and Israel’s own high court.
Demonstrations are peaceful, they go on every day, and stone throwing is legitimate when they have no independent means of legal redress.

Al Qassam rockets have no targeting capability.

Yes the Arab League statement was in 1948, in May after the war was already under way in Palestine, and the negotiations and rejection of partition of Palestine was before that as is shown in the text and makes logical sense.

Yes they were originally on their side and began to realise what they had done years later was wrong when they had sparked a civil war and were being killed by the side they had hoped to help and therefore decided to abstain in the end. That means they abstained from their own actions and were not in fact in full support of 181.

Drew but you seem to think you have a handle on the actual history of this conflict when its apparent from your general ignorance of important details that really you just don’t like arabs or muslims and don’t give a toss what actually happened to whom when or where beyond what you read on various Israeli advocacy sites. I urge you to take an interest in the finer detail if only for your own satisfaction.

Im not sure exactly what we did, it’s likely we retaliated in kind. I know William Wallace sacked York for example. In this regard I would conclude that since we were only doing what was done to us then honour and dishonour is evenly spread. As for terrorism, it is a strategy of the weak and rapidly develops into conventional war once the weapons are supplied. Both the UK and the USA were guilty of terrorism in WW2, as was Israel, moreover state terror is a commonly used means of oppression. So trying to differeniate terrorism from other types of violence is a fools errand Im sure youd agree.

Yes and so are your pals. Still, the cycle was begun before that, with the imperial imposition of an immigrant people. The Palestinians did not come to Europe, it was the other way around.

Yes, I have. Are you going to read the quotes of various zionists about Palestine and their intentions or remain in ignorance?
Which part of the declaration are you referring to?

Yes, that’s true. And the West Bank of course. The logic is clear. It couldn’t be their share as mostly they lived and were born in Europe. And Palestinians only claim was based on the numbers of people who were actually born on the land and lived there - the only legitimate basis to any claim. Much as you as a Canadian or American or whatever, have no claim on anywhere in Europe even if your ancestors were kicked of somewhere.

Yes that’s true. Israel is a established fact lived in by many people who have been born there and have as much right to be there as anyone. That we can agree on and therefore we can also agree that the West Bank and Gaza strip is not Jewish land but is Palestinian land.

Why wouldn’t it be legal in a time of war? In the UK we had all sorts of tunnels when fighting the Germans.

You’ve cited one article claiming democracy to be a Jewish invention, the historical back for greek democracy is far better supported. Its likely that Jewish people did at some time have some forms of democracy – not that it makes any difference to the essential nonsense of your argument.

They cant be squatters as your definition doesn’t fit and isn’t proven.

And so it does about Israelis.

No it doesn’t. It’s been a bunch of tribes for centuries.

No your position in this debate is.

After they kicked out over 700,000 innocent people and moved into their houses.

Im not educating you further until you tell me why do you want to talk about Scottish history?

Ive never mentioned genocide at all. Going to quote me mentioning genocide are you?

Why should someone not born in a land have rights to live there? They dont have a right because they werent born there.

Your conception of rights is based on nothing more than military force.

One logically cannot claim land youre not born in so the Jews do not have any superior claim.

The Palestinians. They didn’t have a state or empire and didn’t need one as they lived there in large numbers.

They debated settling in Texas for God’s sake, and they used their own authority to decide what they wanted to do. Moreover prior to the UN there is no credible authority.

Are you saying that the thought of actually settling in Texas is irrelevant?

The Palestinians, who are connected to every group in the area’s history by lineage and history. They didn’t have a state or empire and didn’t need one as they lived there in large numbers. Moreover Jews may claim connection to any kingdom they want, it doesn’t mean there actually is one. And moreover Israel and other ancient kingdoms weren’t the only ones in the area and the Jews weren’t the only independent people in the area. There were the Philistines, Phoenicians too.

1/ Ive never said Canaan was a modern nation state. It was an ancient kingdom, so I don’t have to show you any such thing logically.
2/ Same as above.

Ok you have mentioned it before, don’t know why you have as most Arabs are innocent of any crimes committed against Jewish people who have thrived in the Middle East much better than in Europe.

Really? Which historical precedent or moral principle are you thinking of to support your position?

No I didnt mention any fine engineering which was acheived by only a few nations mostly in the northern hemisphere, therefore thats an unfair demand and because Palestine was like any other place around the Mediterranean, rural economies supported by roads ports villages and towns built by locals. Fine engineering and industrial marvels were mostly achieved by northern European and American states. No goat trails and mud huts – that’s just ignorant trolling nonsense not worthy of this discussion.

Because many Israelis and right wing Americans like yourself are busy trying to make sure land in the west bank is taken from innocent people in the west bank.

So according to you now it isn’t even about Palaces but instead whos land it is. Yet you keep mentioning mud huts yet that isn’t even your argument.
How can it be somebody else’s land if they’ve never lived there and never built any of this?


Eh no its not clear at all. Since that somebody wasnt born there, never seen it nor built anything on it still standing its not somebody elses land. Thats been clear for a month.

No they don’t.

No things are exactly equal because a Jew in Europe has the same political rights in his country as a Palestinian has in his. There are no special circumstances to do with ancestral homes etc because that is illogical immoral and evil.

Yes it is a combination of terms, which is why it’s a nonsense – because to think that a convert to Judaism has as much right if not more to Palestine than an arab muslim or Christian who has always lived there is even more ridiculous. This is the racist and anti- semitic fantasy you propose and refuse to defend.

Its pretty much the same as for any other type of human. Jews to an extent have the same genetic data as the Palestinians, excepting where they’ve mingled more with the European populations. Much as Americans mostly have the same data as the Europeans – that doesn’t mean Americans have rights to European land.

It was known as Palestine, it was ruled by Ottomans for the most part. Most of them were living peaceably in their homes – so what is your problem with them?

Thats like asking what food they liked, irrelevant. They existed and had opinions, thats all that matters.

They’re not squatters. That’s proven, by the Israeli high court and the ICJ advisory opinion.

Good, then since it does it is.

Of course I can understand this, but since more people were saved by arabs than killed you’re the one is who completely wrong.

Yes, I do believe that. It’s the only moral and logical conclusion, that existence trumps all historical evidence and rights. Other such rights do not exist.

There is no right of return for decedents. There may indeed be a handful of living victims left but so what. The right does not exist for people who weren’t born there.

Do you even give a toss what you post anymore? Thats pretty embarrassing for you.

Ok Ill explain, they are linked by genetic heritage, history, language, culture and contribution to the land and most of these people.

The bible is literature, the main and most popular one at that for the times. Please try to keep up.

Your supplied definition does not fit the bill, makes no sense and is both an immoral and illogical argument, moreover they were no more a nation than Palestinians are a nation. The land being occupied is the only valid criteria of judgement, there is no need for the existence of anyone as an organised people as political organisation is a nebulous concept that varies over time, just as the Jew’s own organisation did. The only criteria that is credible, definable and real is the amount of occupation of the land and stable nature of the lives lived on it.

Im not supposing anything. Im stating that there is no credible logic or moral principle to giving the land someone was born on to someone else who wasn’t born there.
You’ve never once provided any logical or moral principle for this – because you cant.

The Arab legion had the opportunity to advance in Palestine and chose instead to remain as they were. The forces sent by the Arab powers were poorly organised and manned. They couldn’t even protect the arabs far less kill anyone else. So we cant surmise they intended any such thing and this is backed by the Arab league declaration.

No by forming alliances with imperial powers, isolated and heavily armed enclaves, building armies, inciting riots and massacres, bombing markets, and buses, then cleansing villages. Just as the Zionists did. Problem?

Not interested. No sale.

Indeed. So what? Its still a religiously based call to arms that therefore doesnt equate to Hamas members wanting to murder every Jewish person they can lay their hands on as you suggest it does.

Is that like you being a right wing xenophobe? You shouldn’t have come to this battle of wits unarmed. But hey if youre trying to be a maniacal, piety-pretending sociopath, mission accomplished…

Its already been agreed by the US and Israel that the offending parts were abrogated by the PLO by its actions on negotiations over the Camp David period.

As I said, its already been agreed by the US and Israel that the offending parts were abrogated by the PLO by its actions on negotiations over the Camp David period.

Which contravenes the UNs own charter Article One.

 

Rather than being rude you could have just said that we shall not go on with the accepted borders of 1967 then unless of course it is necessary to occupy other territory to stop attacks.

The October War? Please try to stay on the point we were discussing which was the Six Day War after which the Arabs came whining to get their land back that Israel had captured and, would have taken more had the UN not begged them to stop.

Everybody but you knows it and, I suppose you don't because it conflicts with your toss of reality.

Well then since the UN means squat we shall strike it from our discussion and instead go on a morale note whereby the Palestinians who stole the land from the Jews have no right to complain when it is taken back from them and, have no right to complain when they are pushed out behind a wall into gettos when they attempt to kill all the Jews while attempting to steal it back yet again.

The definition of what a state is as I posted proves your toss completely irrelevant.

And the land is full of Jews now. All of them living there, building roads, structures, tending farms and have been for generations.

Exactly which means the Palestinians who are no longer there have no rights to that land.

Really? Can you show me this proof that they were not commissioned by the ruling government of the times?

Except that today, a Palestinian government used terrorism as their foreign policy and their people as human shields and both of them have the destruction of their neighbor as their official policy.

So painting all Israelis with a broad brush means that they are justified as all Palestinians are terrorists who wish to destroy Israel and make it their official policy. Any and all deterrents to this policy is and are justified.

Nowhere is there a Jewish or Israel policy of destroying Palestinians through Jihad. Your toss won't work on this one.

How does an unaimed rocket fired into a civilian area do anything to stop the assassinations of terrorists? It seems to me that it actually does nothing but provide more terrorist targets for Israel to hit.

When did the war end and who were the signatories of the peace treaty? What is the treaty called and where was it signed and when?

A defending military is entitled to occupy as it is part of war and as for the rest of the spew it is toss invented by shills with no proof.

Thousands? Liberal numbers state a max of 1400 and Hamas themselves acknowledge that seven hundred were Hamas operatives. An extremely low 1:1 civilian/hostile kill ratio while operating in a hostile built up area is an achievement in the annals of military history as no other nation has ever been able to accomplish this. As for breaking ceasefires it seems both sides were playing tit for tat throughout this period what with Hamas holding an Israeli soldier and built=ding up their war making capability contrary to what they agreed on.

LOL that toss won't wash as Israel is composed of one quarter Palestinians all of which enjoy a better lifestyle than in Palestinian ruled territories.

Right, just as Normandy, the Rhine, Bavaria and all of Japan was not part of the Allied Forces nations who occupied it during WWII. It was territory occupied in time of war and then returned to the host nation when the war was over and peace treaties had been signed and conditions adhered to.

So is defense against stone throwing who are attacking peaceful soldiers guarding areas. As the IDF has no stone throwing machines they use their weapons at hand. I know this is crazy Creation but did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe if Palestinians used legal means rather than illegal terrorism that they might get ahead a bit better? I mean, nowhere, ever have they used legal means to achieve their ends have they, there has always been the underlying threat of terrorism and violence be it rocks, suicide bombers, kidnappings, rockets and riots.

Strange that they land almost exclusively in civilian areas then, almost like they were deliberately targeting civilians but then again, we all know this is a war against all Israelis, not just the military.

More toss. If the war was already underway then the Arab League and Palestinians didn't need to declare it yet they did. More toss from you and your revisionist attempts.

Strange they recognized the state of Israel in 1949. A nation that felt they were wrong in their support would not do such a thing.

Yes, join you in your muddy view that Palestinians don't have official policies such as their covenants to destroy Israel through Jihad huh?

Terrorism is illegal and when carried out by a nation during war is legal unless it violates the various conventions at which time it becomes a war crime not terrorism. Remember the definition;

“Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code
18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:
"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
• Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*
"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
• Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.”

So to you, immigration policy should be met with Jihad and here you are, on these very pages citing how violent Israelis are for defending themselves against a mad crazed horde of peoples who have Jihad and terrorism as their one and only response for political [policies they don’t like.

“The recommendations triggered violent demonstrations in the Arab states, and calls for a Jihad and an annihilation of all European Jews in Palestine.”

Lol, murdering every Jew from Europe. Golly, you and your pals are a hoot!

I'm not even going into the hideous calls for murder by various individuals from the Palestinian camp but rather talking about the OFFICIAL POSITION of the Palestinians. On the other hand the Official Position of the Israelis calls for nothing but peace and harmony with her neighbors.

The part where they say “WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.”

And of course the rest of it has nothing about armed Jihad and the destruction of the Arab nations of the region unlike the Hamas and PA Charters which call for the destruction of Israel.

That might hold water if there was ever a Palestinian nation but since there was not until recently it holds nothing but silly contentions by yourself or as you so vividly put it “toss.”

It is now as the UN and Israel allowed for it to be.

It is legal just as it would be legal for the Germans to have same and, it would be quite legal for the Allies to destroy those same tunnels which is what Israel is doing.

Thanks. So the Jews did have democracy as we now both agree.

Jews owned the land and so they are squatters as they never had a nation but rather a bunch of people who were….. well …. Squatting.

Please refer to either my definition or bring forth your own widely accepted definition of terrorism and then apply the examples you bring forth to show how Israel is at present enacting widespread terrorism as Hamas does.

From Wiki;

“In the early 7th century, Muhammad united the various tribes of the peninsula and created a single Islamic religious polity. Following his death in 632, his followers rapidly expanded the territory under Muslim rule beyond Arabia, conquering huge swathes of territory (from the Iberian Peninsula in west to modern day Pakistan in east) in a matter of decades. In so doing, Arabia soon became a politically peripheral region of the Muslim world as the focus shifted to the more developed conquered lands.[24] From the 10th century to the early 20th century Mecca and Medina were under the control of a local Arab ruler known as the Sharif of Mecca, but at most times the Sharif owed allegiance to the ruler of one of the major Islamic empires based in Baghdad, Cairo or Istanbul. Most of the remainder of what became Saudi Arabia reverted to traditional tribal rule.[25][26]”

Well talking about Saudi Arabia is evil to you only and I find nothing evil about Muslims so it must be you only that views Muslims as evil.

Many of whom sold, left on their own, left as per the call of the Mufti or raised arms against Israelis and Jews so yes, if you view selling land or taking up arms against others as being kicked out then yes they were. I tend to view the fact that one quarter of Israel is made up of Palestinians with full rights as proof of your fallacy toss.

Further? You have not scored a point in this debate to date so I’d rather have one of the people on my ignore list educate me as they are certainly far more qualified to lay ut a logical case than you.

You have in the past mentioned that Israel is responsible for ethnic cleansing which is similar to genocide. The error is mine yet the charge of ethnic cleansing while there is a population increase in those supposedly being cleansed is a sham.

All nations have immigration policies Creation. This allows those who immigrate the right to reside there and become citizens.

True. If it were not for military force Palestinians would never have been able to infest the Levant as Israel would have been able to repel the Romans, Ottomans and Caliphates and remained as a state and Kingdom

Huh? Israel has been a nation for over sixty five years Creation. Please update your knowledge base so we can move n in our discussion.

How so when you can’t prove they did as a cohesive society rather a bunch of squatters?

I sure do as this idea which was given birth only by the thought that returning to their land was impossible given the harsh reality of the situation with the Ottomans was quickly snuffed out. The man who gelled he idea of Zionism quickly realized that any place other than their historical home was wrong so as you said they “thought” but in the end did not. Palestinians “thought they could murder every Jew but they did not. Good thing “thought” is not reality.

LOL well, when they stop their terrorism and violence they can be part of Israel, the matter is settled!

Laddies and Gentlemen come one come all, I present to you the Denier! For one thin dime you too can see the one, the only, the man who despite reams and volumes of intellectual evidence and historical facts from the Romans to Encyclopedia and the British Empires greatest historians thought he could change history by denying the Kingdoms of Israel and Judea existed!

 

They may not have been the only ones but they certainly are the only ones who had a historical proof of having a state and kingdom, a traceable presence in the Levant and have, along with their invited brothers and sisters claimed their land back. No other peoples can lay claim to having a state or historical presence to validate this claim.

You do though as you need to prove that the Jews, who we know undoubtedly had an autonomous nation and kingdom with defined borders had no right to that land yet, you have contended that some Canaanite kingdom which you, over the period of a month, have yet to show does and identify where it's capital was, what sort of borders it had, who it's rulers were and monetary unit not to mention tie their kingdom through linage to the Palestinians of today.

I've watched you state that the Jewish kingdoms were not a state even though history and dictionaries prove it was in every sense of the word, then say the Canaanites have a right to the land even though none have come forward to prove they do, then switch from the Palestinians being subjects of the Ottomans and having a legal right to how they were descendants of the Canaanites and do from that angle yet cannot supply any DNA evidence they are and instead attempted to just bring something forth that shows they share a similar genetic heritage rather than a factual direct link to Canaanites and still cannot show Canaan as a state of any kind that adheres to your own definition of a state which is something that &#8220;cannot be divided up, has a constitution that defines a core national group, introduces equality before the law for all members of the nation, and provides for &#8220;popular rule&#8221; by some form of elected body&#8221;

In any case, you failed miserably to show a valid state (or kingdom) that predates Judea and Israel that has relevance to your argument.

Mohawk and Iroquois wars, , Muslim Conquests, Greek and Roman Conquests, Vikings, Aztecs, Moors, Mongolian Hordes, Persians, Europeans in a huge way and on and on. Seems history is certainly not a strong point with you.

Right. It&#8217;s wasn&#8217;t until the Jews took over that engineering marvels were constructed by the indigenous peoples &#8211; the Jews.

I would most certainly agree that is the cae for some just as perpetual war is the goal for many on both sides in order to line their pockets but the majority of people just want peace which, given the official program of the Palestinians to be Jihad and destruction of Israel from day one isn&#8217;t likely to occur.

Seems to have been clarified on various levels for over a month given the UN found it legal, the Palestinians didn&#8217;t have a nation &#8211; ever and the Jews had two and, the Jews who remained there were free to invite anybody they wished to help them rebuild what was and is theirs.

Right, they have fire bases from which to hide, house terrorists and fire terrorist missiles from into civilian areas.

True however the Jews who lived there for generations and actually hold title to the land of their forefathers as defined by the definition of a state and the fact that two Jewish states existed there and no Palestinian ones did invited whomever they wished to enter and live there. Rather than choose to invite Arabs or Eskimos they chose Jews.

When you have the right to land you can invite whomever you wish to as well as that comes with being a member of the historical peoples who inhabited the land prior to squatters infesting it.

Americans are not an ethnic group from a designated state in a defined area of the Old World, Jews are.

Yes, the geographical region known as Palestine, sort of like saying Japanese have the rights to all of Asia as they are there in that ragion. Say, can you answer my question as to "what was their country called and what was it&#8217;s capital, leaders, system of government? " or can we now just say that they didn't have a country but rather were squatters on the lands of the actual nation and state of Israel and Judea which did have leaders, systems of government and an affirmed historical society there.

Not now as they have been recognized as a nation of peoples on the land in Gaza and the West Bank but they certainly were when they moved into the area after the Jews were pushed out millenia ago.

Please quote and link to the widely accepted definition of terrorism you use to assign it such value.

I&#8217;m wrong that Arabs created a massacre and some viewed this as wrong? What is your point please, that there is nothing wrong with conducting a massacre as long as some will try to stop it or aid the victims?

 

Israel could not have taken the entire area and your statement that Israel could have taken more is proven wrong by events, like the 73 war. It tried and failed to take more. Read the history of the campaigns of 48 there are sound logistical reasons Israel has only gone so far.

We were discussing the entire conflict, please no further dishonesty. There is no need for that behaviour.
And post the Six day war the Arabs did not whine to get their land back, another fabrication.

Your desperate tactic of pretending that I deny or do not know an ancient kingdom called Israel existed is noted.
No as I said everybody knows it, as do I, they also know its irrelevant.
Again your argument against Palestinians keeping their land and for Israelis taking land is the prior existence of a state - that argument no longer stands.

I never said it means squat. I said, its not an arbiter of moral value and many people do take issue with Res 181.
Palestinians didn’t steal anything from Jews and there is no case in international law that backs you up.

LOL.
1/ Ive stated that its an Irrelevant point.
2/ Most states including Israel didn’t either. Now its your turn to tell me why it is relevant – is it perhaps that you think the point is relevant simply because Israel controls the area now?
3/ Your definition doesn’t fit the bill.

Indeed, and as such Ive no argument with Israel roughly is it now. As Ive said before, the prior existence of states or kingdoms or anything long before is no argument for political rights. However, actually living there and having directly familial lineage there comes first over all other claims. There were and are no squatters in Palestine. That means the Zionist project, though in place now, was an evil and unjust imposition and that further expansion into the west bank is also evil.
You cant accept that, and therefore your position is inconsistent and evil.

Never said they did. Which is why my position is logically consistent whereas yours is inconsistent as it seeks to make exceptions.

Why should I? Whether commissioned by the local government, the Imperial government, or private investors, local traders etc etc they were still all built by local people. This is no different to anywhere in the world.
If you’d like to detail with sources who commissioned what buildings and how many were built by locals and how many by others then Im happy to discuss your point.

LOL. Trying to paint Palestinians as more willing to oppress and kill innocent people flies in the face of the facts of history. They were cleansed, occupied and settled on for decades, compared to what was done to them the terrorist actions of their militants are small beer.

Except that I said Israel, not Israelis, which would denote individuals in the state of Israel. Your desperate attempt to say that I damn all Israelis as you damn all arabs is noted as further proof of the evil and inconsistency of your position.

Of course there is. There is the actual act, religiously and ethnically inspired, of ethnic cleansing and continued policy of settlement and repression of innocent people which is much worse and cannot be justified.
Would you like to discuss the details of the campaign or is it too difficult for you?

LOL. More stupidity, try reading a book sometime. They’re not designed to stop assassinations of terrorists. They’re simply a show piece to demonstrate that the weak state of Gaza can still respond to Israeli aggression.

When did Israel declare war against Palestine? And why would you settle civilians on a land whose inhabitants you are at war with?

And a defending people are entitled to resist.

Nonsense, the Israeli government already admitted it broke the ceasefire at the time, after Hamas drastically reduced the firing of rockets into Israel. That breaking led to the taking of Gilad Shalit.

LOL. Palestine had a lot more Arabs in it in 1947, so trying to pretend there was no ethnic cleansing simply because they didn’t manage to kill or kick out every Arab is laughable. Most Arabs in Palestine were ethnically cleansed. Your desperation stinks as you try to pretend it didn’t happen and justify what happened to hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Go read a book.

LOL. And none of that territory was annexed or settled on by the Allies claiming it to be theirs all along. No Britons claiming ancestry from ancient Norman kingdoms claiming Normandy etc etc. Go read a book.

Shields and armour are a legitimate defence, live bullets are not, especially against defenceless kids.
Palestinians tried and still try legal means every day, long before, and during and after, the advent of the PLO. But since they have no voice in Israel as an occupied people it means little. Moreover whatever means they use, it matters little if the occupying power is actually intent on annexing the land in the first place. And their threat of violence is as nothing compared to the Israeli threat of violence.

Not strange at all. As I said they have no targeting capability, it’s a surprise they get off the ground. Whenever the Palestinians get better weapons, like RPGs, they use them against the military.

In fact they did need to declare it, as they intended to intervene in an already occurring war.

Not strange at all. Quite understandable as Israel was an established fact by its gains and American political support. That didn’t mean they approved the initial political and military actions.

Of course they do, in their documents. These are abrogated by their actions in negotiations and cooperation on the ground and equalled by Israeli policy and actions.
Again, you seem to think you have a handle on the actual history of this conflict when its apparent from your general ignorance of important details that really you just don’t like arabs or muslims and don’t give a toss what actually happened to whom when or where beyond what you read on various Israeli advocacy sites. I urge you to read a book and take an interest in the finer detail if only for your own satisfaction.

Terrorism is not defined solely by the US codes and moreover it is a strategy of the weak and rapidly develops into conventional war once the weapons are supplied. Both the UK and the USA were guilty of terrorism in WW2, as was Israel, moreover state terror is a commonly used means of oppression. So trying to differentiate terrorism or justify it as you do as being produced by states at war, from other types of violence is a fool’s errand Im sure youd agree.

Yes and so are you and your pals. Still, the cycle was begun before that, with the imperial imposition of an immigrant people. A violent and unjust policy against innocent people. The Palestinians did not come to Europe with the aim of taking European land, it was the other way around.

The official position of the Israeli government was much worse and their actions even worse than that. Are you going to read the quotes of various zionists about Palestine and their intentions or remain in ignorance?

LOL, you’re not that naïve are you? Meanwhile they were busy killing and kicking out hundreds of thousands of innocent people and bulldozing their villages.

It holds a lot more water than such rubbish as such irrelevant rubbish as ‘oh but they weren’t a nation’. The logic is clear. It couldn’t be the Israelis share as mostly they lived and were born in Europe. And Palestinians only claim was based on the numbers of people who were actually born on the land and lived there - the only legitimate basis to any claim. Much as you as a Canadian or American or whatever, have no claim on anywhere in Europe even if your ancestors were kicked of somewhere.

Pretty much your admission that in your mind the only true justification is force and therefore violence and forced settlement is legitimate. Again showing the inconsistency and evil of your ignorant position.

Israel doesn’t just destroy homes with tunnels. Moreover your justifying any action against occupied citizens a power chooses to take on whatever pretext it chooses to make up. But how will you justify the settling of civilians on occupied land?

Yes and so what? Various forms of democracy, usually very limited as in Israel to, existed all across the ancient world at various times.

They cant be squatters as your definition doesn’t fit and isn’t proven.

Please refer to the international debate on terrorism.

As I said. Tribal rule etc. Today Arabia is owned and run by one family. The Sauds. That is evil. Nothing to do with their religion.

700,000 people who had nothing to do with the Mufti and had certainly never met him or fought for him. Half of whom fled, no selling involved, the half forced out. That’s men women and children. Young and old. There was no selling and no taking up arms by these people. Indeed many of the villages that had agreed peace with the neighbouring Jewish villages were later cleansed. You may view Israel’s current Palestinian population as proof there was no ethnic cleansing but that would be false and illogical as originally there were many many more than that living across some 400 villages there.
Would you like to discuss this further? Its clear you haven’t actually read the accounts from Israeli army or Palestinian sources.

LOL. Just ask me anything, Im happy to discuss the actual history of the area in detail. Its clear I wont get any information from you.

Yes the error is yours, does that count as a point to me yet? Lemme guess you wont admit to anything.
Ok tell me, since the 1990s the various ethnic populations of the Balkans have all increased. Does that mean there was no ethnic cleansing?
As for Palestine, those hundreds of thousands of refugees that ended up in camps across the Levant, are you saying that since not every single Arab in Palestine was kicked out of Israel there was not an ethnic cleansing? Can you confirm yes or no that that is what youre saying?

Does that mean your local muslim ethnic group or Africans, as citizens of your country have a right to invite two million fellow muslims or Africans to live next door to your neighbourhood?

Indeed, and Canaans would have been able to repel the Hebrews.

Yes but we’re discussing the instance of the actual conflict dating from 1888 which you blame the Arabs for resisting and I blame the Zionists for starting.
So Im up to date, in fact there are no facts on this conflict you can update me on as Im much more interested in the history than you. Really you just hate arabs.

They had numerous political parties and blatant political opinion. That’s proof enough all by itself of a cohesive society.

What load of nonsense. Zionism began during the Ottomans reign long before WW1 and the advent the British. So there was no ‘oh its impossible given the harsh reality etc etc’. That’s just crap.

Indeed the matter is settled, they can be part of Palestine.

LOL there was indeed a kingdom, but an actual connection between an ancient kingdom none can remember or have lived in, whose language had to be re constituted from the more common Yiddish that Jews spoke? Complete fabricated nonsense.

 

Nonsense, the Palestinians have genetic ancestry going back to the original inhabitants of the area, Population studies show that the land was never ever emptied &#8211; meaning the Palestinians are related to every single group that was ever there. Meaning they&#8217;ve been a part of every state that was ever there. Oh and they built all the buildings you can see in the old pictures before most of them were kicked out.

LOL, I don&#8217;t contend that Canaan has any right. It cant as theyre all long dead. I contend that the Palestinians of the 20th century had that right, kingdom or no kingdom, state or no state.
Jewish kingdoms were not a state, history does not prove that. In fact Jewish states were repeatedly broken up over their history. They did not have a constitution or equality before the law or popular rule.
We&#8217;ve been over the genetic lineage of Palestinians, they&#8217;re connected to all inhabitants of the area.

There are numerous kingdoms that pre date and post date ancient Israel.

LOL, and what do these wars tell you? That rights are derived from violent conquest?

LOL, what marvels by what indigenous peoples?

LOL, and given the actions of the Israeli government since 1948 its far less likely to occur.

Its never been clarified. The UN ICJ advisory opinion already admits Israel sits on occupied not disputed land.

As has Israel, they have all these things and more.

Indeed but since things are exactly equal because a Jew in Europe has the same political rights in his country as a Palestinian has in his. There are no special circumstances to do with ancestral homes etc because that is illogical immoral and evil and those actions are immoral and wrong just as they would be in your own country and anywhere else.

No it doesn&#8217;t come with being a member at all. There is no right to invite whomever you want etc etc. Because that&#8217;s evil and wouldn&#8217;t be accepted anywhere.

Americans are a range of ethnic groups. Who don&#8217;t have any rights to the lands of their various heritages. Logically.
In fact according to your logic the only Americans who have rights to land anywhere else are the Jewish Americans. That inconsistency demonstrates the illogical nature of your position.

Not really, Japanese live on a group of Islands known as Japan. Palestinians live and lived in an area known as Palestine.
But sure Ill answer, the country was Palestine, the Capital was Jerusalem, the system of government was varied but lastly foreign imperial using local governors. There are actual pictures and documents to show all of this.
No we cant say they were squatters.

They didn&#8217;t move into the area. Some Arabs did and the locals took on their language and religion.

See the definitions of terrorism and state terrorism. And see the debates on the matter.

What did those who stopped it or aided the victims have to do with it?

 

Thought we were talking about '67. You know, the war in which Israel was still taking ground right up till the ceasefire took effect.

Oh ok. In that case they could simply let loose a few nukes and take everything then.

The way some of them go on about Israel being in violation of 242 when it is they who flaunted it the most one would think so.

That's right as Israel is there now so our discussion is moot.

Strange, the Jews wanted their land back and the Palestinians who never had a stte tried to then kill them all. Sort of sounds like theft to me or, at the very least, taking advantage of a victim of violence.

It is relevant because Jews at one time lived and thrived there and so this is their ancestral home. Palestinians I assume thrived and lived elsewhere and then after the Jews were ran out by force for the most part they infested the land and called it their own even though they never had a state. Now the Jews have returned they have a state and live once again on their ancestral lands.

And yours is childish.

Nope. Just wonder why you wish to discuss a point that is meaningless. If Palestinians no longer have the right to live in Israel then why are we even talking about it?

To say the Palestinians had this or that when in reality they had squat but buildings that were owned and operated by other nations is like pointing to a radar station in Antarctica and saying how civilized the Penguins are.

I know of no other nation on earth who has the destruction of another nation as the core of their foreign policy.

It is impossible to destroy the nation and move the Jews out of it without killing all of them and, the covenants reflect this. Try to at least read them prior to posting again.

Show me this official policy please and the document from which you quoted it from. As there is no Israeli Charter or Constitution the Declaration of Independence will be the equivalent and it is not found there.

So terrorism for no other purpose than terrorism. How civilized.

They had no choice as Palestinians declared war on Israel in May of '48 and to occupy a land for the long term requires massive support for an economy as fragile as Israel's meaning that civilians are conscripted and require to live close to their posts in case they are called up in emergencies.

Defence? You just said that ;

"They&#8217;re not designed to stop assassinations of terrorists. They&#8217;re simply a show piece"

Gilad Shalit was taken hostage in June 2006 and Cast Lead began a year and a half later in Dec 2008.

A poor argument for Ethnic Cleansing as they could or could have, on a whim kick out every one of them if they wished.

You forgot to mention that none of this occurred until there was a peace treaty. We are still waiting for the Palestinians to first take the destruction of Israel from their official Charters and make a peace treaty that lasts.

Actually that is correct and a buffer zone around those shields and armor is prudent, one that is enforced with live ammunition against armed terrorists or defenseless kids testing the defenses on behalf of the terrorists.

And nothing will happen until there is a peace treaty anyhow as no land will be transferred until then.

Gaza: Palestinian Rockets Unlawfully Targeted Israeli Civilians

"The rocket attacks, including the first from Gaza to strike the Tel Aviv and Jerusalem areas, killed three Israeli civilians, wounded at least 38, several seriously, and destroyed civilian property. Rockets that fell short of their intended targets in Israel apparently killed at least two Palestinians in Gaza and wounded others, Human Rights Watch said.

&#8220;Palestinian armed groups made clear in their statements that harming civilians was their aim,&#8221; said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. &#8220;There is simply no legal justification for launching rockets at populated areas.&#8221;"

Then why did the Palestinians declare it if they were already in that war?

Answer: there wasn't a war going on until the Arabs declared it.

Like Yale? Seems any site that doesn't agree with your seemingly anti semite views is of course anti Arab or Muslim.

Try the UN, pretty much equals the same definition.

"criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act"

Muslims have and, like the Jews, were invited by the Jews of the times and the rulers of the land.

Nope because those quotes are not the official position but rather talking points so please stick with the facts rather than rumor.

LOL I suppose you are as you gloss over the official position of the Palestinians which is to kill Jews and take the entire land from the river to the sea in Jihad yet they are the poor victims.

LOL you kill me!

Well now more Jews live and were born there than Palestinians so end of argument.

Excuse me but you are the one calling the deliberate terrorizing of women and children as defense.

Correct. They destroy Settler and Palestinian homes that are built haphazardly,, not up to code and without permits as well as homes that house terrorists (which is pretty much every official in Palestine) along with places that house weapons or stores used by the terrorist organizations that infest Palestine.

If they were the original viable inhabitants and were able to reclaim their land after the Americans left then certainly they could.

Yep but that is neither here nor there as none have come forward to make a claim.

Actually I blame the Arabs and Muslims for making Jews second class members of society and then enticing and enacting violence against them when they began getting empowered.

Not true.

Please cease with your lies.

I see, so they had to make a decision and stick with it from day one rather than morph. Unlike the Palestinians who have death as their official position the Jews were able to change their target when they realized it was not a worthy objective.

And they could have invited their friends in to make their nation as well once they had a nation but of course, as we all know, they turned down the opportunity the first time because they didn't like the idea of living next to Jews as equals.

And as soon as they take the destruction of their neighbor off their official position they too can have that right.

And you have been proved wrong.

One of the tribes of the Muslims in Saudi Arabia?

Pretty much.

This is a list of inventions and discoveries by Israeli scientists and researchers, working locally or overseas.

Doesn't matter anyhow as the Palestinians never really wanted peace.

As they will until there is peace.

Israel is not a terrorist run nation like Palestine is. Well, according to any widely used definition it isn't.

Correct, unless one is from there which the Jews who stayed had when they invited their pals from Europe to come join them.

There was anarchy Creation. There were no immigration rules as there was no nation. If the Palestinians wanted to invite Arab armies to come in they could .... hmmm, they actually did that didn't they?

If there is no nation where they're from and they are invited to return to that land and build a nation they are free to do so.

Pictures that have the word but no official documents tying Arab Palestinians to a land owned, governed and defined as the nation of Palestine rather a geographical area known as Palestine which encompassed Syria, Jordan, Israel and Judea.

So they took on a foreign language huh? LOL, your case is going downhill fast!

You have yet to produce one and stick to it. I'll go with the UN and the FBI ones thanks.

They were members of the very society that produced scum like that and then propagated same by inaction. If this were not the case Jews and Arabs would be living in peace rather than enticing the rest of the Arab world to gang up and invade the nation of Israel when it was declared according to the wishes of the UN.

Agreed!

So when will Palestine take the destruction of Israel off their charters?

There is no official Israeli policy of destroying Palestine or the Palestinians.

Well maybe your baseless arrogance but certainly not mine.

When your neighbor moves in next door you gret them by slitting their children's throats?

Never mind, know the answer to that one!

Hardly, such a vast amount of great works is testament to the solidified society that allows for intellectual works such as this meaning they were there as a nation, culture and society that transcends the centuries to this day with proof such as this.

Bible? You're going to produce the bible as evidence?

Well since that is not your argument and since only a handful of Palestinians were when Israel was formed we can certainly agree they should be able to return once there is a peace treaty signed and it is verified they wish to be part of Israel and be able to vote in elections in a peaceful manner then.

Yea we agree again!

So when I leave my house you can move in and then when I come back you can tell me who I can and cannot invite home. Golly, this is very interesting Creation. Making your own definitions of terrorism and now law.

Half a million troops against less then a hundred fifty thousand Israelis and the Arabs suffered less than five thousand dead? Pretty good to tell the truth.

Obviously you do as you call it defense when Arabs do it as part and parcel of their official policy.

So now I'm not to use Yale as a source. Your antisemitism precedes you!

And their official Charter.

Warning! Grammar police required in sewing thread aisle three!

Right. Can't be changed as it is the official policy of the Palestinians governments. I can even quote their leaders stating the same goals like 'river to the sea,' and how Jews will be welcome to live as second class citizens once they are running the show.

They did though as the resolution asked that they form nations from what was the Mandate. Israel did but Palestinians didn't and the rest is history with you and your pals filled with hate trying to justify the deliberate targeting of women, children and a hate filled covenant that is their official position.

 

You forgot invading Mizrahim from Israel, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Bukharia, Dagestan, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Afghanistan and of course the invading teimanim from yemen who have the oldest most ancient pronunciation of Hebrew.

 

Wrong, the Jews from Europe and North Africa are descendants from the Israelites. Countless genetic studies have shown that these groups cluster the closest together, how can that be if they are only of the same faith and not of the same ancestry? And paternally, sefaradic north african jews are very close to kurdish and iraqi jews, nearly indistinguishable.

the article by Nebel et al.[7] the authors show that Kurdish and Sephardi Jews have paternal genetic heritage indistinguishable. The study shows that mixtures between Kurdish Jews and their Muslim hosts are negligible and that Kurdish Jews are closer to other Jewish groups than to their long term host population. Mr. Hammer[2] had already shown the strong correlation between the genetic heritage of Jews from North Africa with Kurdish Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Y-DNA_of_Kurdish_Jews