How to Really Fix Healthcare. Conservatives, take a Nitro before reading this

Why is a profit motive immoral?

 

are you really this unaware of your surroundings? tell me how short a time our "representatives" serve. how long was ted kennedy suckling at the public teat and meddling in the affairs of the people? how long are these political animals "serving" their constituencies? we have created a ruling class that never leaves so-called "public service" for their entire lives. they create their own little fiefdoms and often rule over them for decades. even term limits don't stop them, they merely shift from one position to another. this is the system y'all seem to adore - as long as they give you what you want. the moment the tide shifts you start screaming about abuses of power. you sheepish ignorance is just another example of the basic truth underlying the profit motive, but you are simply too blind to see it.

 

So, have you any supporting evidence for this talking point fairytale? I have 100% VA coverage, and the last place I want to be is sitting in a waiting room for a broken finger nail. Nor do I see the facilities overrun on frivolous issues. Get real!!!

 

You are miseducated in thinking that our Constitution awards rights. But that isn't the case. Our Constitution prohibits government from intruding on our right...to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our Constitution does not have the authority to put one person in slavery or servitude to make sure a noted "right" is held.

 

Yes, I do have supporting evidence. My mother and father paid for six babies to be born, all their medical attention while they were growing up, and even surgeries out-of-pocket and purchased catastrophic insurance in case of major problems. Mom was a full time homemaker. Health care was affordable before government got involved. That's a fact.

 

So back to the question you never answered in any coherent fashion, "I must ask, why would anyone want to set this control up, knowing they are representatives for a short time....?" Doesn't make any sense. Why would a represenative shoot himself and his family and his great grandchildren in the foot? You are obviously up a fairytale that has no realm in logical cognitive thought.

Want to try again?

 

That is weak, Are you sating she went in for broken finger nails because it was free?

 

Again...our constitution is set up to protect us....from government treading on OUR right for life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Its not a statement promising Welfare payments. Geeze.

 

It is not weak at all. Mom didn't go in for a broken fingernail. Mom and Dad paid for their doctor for their family out of pocket and we received good care. It is a fact that health care was affordable before the government got involved.

 

Profit motives are not bad, except when the profit motive becomes detrimental to the public good. Using healthcare as a means to rake the American public over the coals for extra money is something that should be viewed as universally abhorrent.

While I support having reduced tax breaks for the rich and a progressive tax rate, I don't believe they should be barred from amassing wealth, so long as they do not squirrel billions away in an attempt to use that money to become a broker of political power.

Ever read the Preamble? Ever wondered what it meant? The Preamble gives the meaning to every other clause of the Constitution. One of the goals of the Constitution was to Promote the General Welfare. That has, for countless decades, been interpreted as one of the main goals of the Federal Government is to ensure that its citizens are taken care of properly.

I'm not saying we should seek to live under the South African Constitution. South Africa's Constitution is tailor-made for South Africa and could not be directly brought here, but what we CAN do, is seek to emulate their Bill of Rights in an American way. If you consider that each Constitution is a tailored suit for each country to wear to a ball with the other nations of the world, Uncle Sam's would be as ill-fitting as if you tried to squeeze into your prom tuxedo.

I've written more about rights than you've probably ever read, so yeah, I think I know a hell of a lot more than you care to think on this subject. I have a stack of books that is about three feet high next to my computer that I have been spending the past few weeks poring over for research on my first book. A book, mind you that is necessitated solely by the entire cesspool that American politics has become thanks to the 226-year old relic to which we hold ourselves responsible to. Not to mention every class I ever took on civics I aced. TOP OF MY MOTHERF*CKING CLASS! Furthermore, I have taken a test comprised of the entire 100-question battery that citizenship tests are drawn from and gotten a 96%, so don't you EVER try to say I don't know this subject. Don't even TRY to insinuate, suggest, imply, or hint at it, either.

Calling me an idjit, eh? Did I blame all of the nation's problems on overly-profitable nations? No I didn't. I actually wholeheartedly support people who want to make profits. Profits are the key motivation behind innovating new technologies. People would not strive to build a better mousetrap if they knew nobody would pay attention to it.

My problem is that CORPORATIONS comprised of more businesspeople who swear an oath to the almighty dollar than to the principles of Hippocrates are in control of the nation's healthcare, and can thus dictate to all of us.

NOW who's the idiot?????

Complete fabrication of what happened. The advanced technology, coupled with the realization of the healthcare industry that they could name any price and the consumers would pay it left the healthcare higher. Indeed, the American propensity toward being overly litigious caused some costs to also rise, but not as much as what the corporations did.

Spare me your small-minded approach to the issue. The reason the ACA does not deliver truly affordable care was because there were no controls enacted to restrict price-gouging by the corporations.

That is exactly why I think the healthcare system should be run by doctors, not politicians or businessmen.

Name one government who has ever turned a profit. You can't, unless that government was a pure kleptocracy. Every government ever created has always run at a loss, that is why taxation is a key point of government policy.

 

That is not a fabrication of what happened. It is exactly what happened. During WWII government started wage controls so employers went around the law by providing employer paid health care as a benefit. Since people were not paying for their own health care they went to the doctor more often. Since people were not paying for their own care they did not care what the doctors and hospitals charged. Then Medicare and Medicaid came along and prices have been rising ever since. Advanced technology would bring prices down just as it does in other technologies. Computers are much cheaper now because they are not regulated by government. Computers are faster, more memory, and cheaper because that is what advanced technology produces. The same thing can happen in health care when the government steps back and lets them operate.

 

Where did I say that the Constitution awards rights?

Oh.....that's right, I didn't. Yet another pea-brained Conservative misunderstanding of simple English.

Wonder why I didn't say that.....oh, that's right.....the philosophy behind the Constitution was that the rights mentioned therein were guaranteed to everyone by the mere fact that they were human beings.....

Oh, and let's not forget that little rascally Ninth Amendment which says that the first eight Amendments were not an exhaustive list of rights, that they could be expanded as a situation changed.

Bless your heart, CKW, where would I be if I didn't have to spend this five minutes correcting your misguided lunacy? Oh, that's right, I was going to be heading for a quick walk with my boyfriend for a while. Toodles!!

 

Hmm, so when did government get involved?

 

Cost? Before the ACA was passed the CBO said it would save us money. Then shortly after it was passed they said otherwise.

The only time you hear politicians talk about cost is when they wish to impose their will on you or take more money from you. After all, when they want to go to "war" they just do it. When they want to pass an entitlement, they just do it. If they want to create more government jobs and grow government, they just do it. There is no concern about cost in the land where trillion dollar deficits reign supreme.

With the Ben Barnanke printing press, it's all monopoly money.

 

I never said it was a statement promising welfare payments. You might be on the wrong thread? This one is about ACA.

 

Oh...well that is pretty much how you interpeted the "Welfare Clause". Government giving some sort of welfare right?

 

Oh. So you don't believe we have a right to receive healthcare. Sorry. I did misread your post.

 

You lost all credibility right here. Healthcare costs are out of control because of the costs of technology and cost of the skills needed to administer such care combined with consumer demand that is willing to pay such prices. Why would a surgeon care to offer services for 2k when he can get an operation by someone that is willing to pay 20k.

 

I guess the cost are the issue. To become a doctor you have to devote a decade of your life to just learn how, and pay for the learning, its reasonable for you then to expect to be able to make an above average wage to payback loans and live a worry free financial life.

The cost of research development and testing of new and better drugs is very high too, into the millions just to produce one new product. New medical technology and equipment is in the same boat.

That doesn't mean that they don't make it all back and more, but I am always a bit careful when I try to judge anyone else's situation. I have faced plenty of unfair judgement myself, so when I see people throwing assumptions around I assume they don't really know what they are talking about.

For profit hospitals seem to be the big problem. They do not represent the doctors, medical companies or the patients, just the owners and investors. The insurance companies are almost as bad, but I tend to give them a little pass as they have been so battered by regulations.

 

Ok, so corporate welfare, foreign aid welfare, wall street welfare, bank welfare. If that works for you.

 

I'm for none of that. Government intrusion is anti constitutional. Welfare in the context it is meant is roads, taxes and perhaps even a safety net for those who are destitute. Welfare in the sense of supplying the basic needs to the people as some sort of "right" is ridiculous.

If you an I agree....its on the money given out by people in government who are looking for favors, votes or kick backs. Or who do not believe in the soundness of the private market.

 

Wow, you are in luck, it's only your complete ignorance of the ACA that is giving you conniptions.
There is no government agent between you and your health care, that agent is the same friendly insurance guy who has been turning down claims for decades.
That bureaucratic morass you have to navigate is pure private enterprise, designed to produce huge bonuses for executives, while denying your claims as much as they can.

Happy?

 

now that you've relieved your need to hear yourself speak, go back and look. I said "politicians" not governments.

Politicians have an unlimited ability to funnel endless amounts of your money to their corporatist partners in industry. A government does not have to run a profit to enrich politicians and their political contributors.

 

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The problem countries that have universal healthcare now is that they use systems that assume they have as much money as they need, when in fact that have a budget that is less than what they need.

If you are going to implement a national healthcare system, you cannot simply pay the entirety of everyone's bills, it is not sustainable unless everyone is willing to pay as much as necessary in taxes no matter what.