I am FOR gay people having real equality. Why would anyone not be FOR that?

Full faith and credit clause has the well established Public Policy Exception. Has been used for instance to permit a state to ignore a marriage to a minor in another state, that wouldnt be permitted in their state.

 

Its coming, best you just make your peace now.

 

man made morals are not what I subscribe to. The SCOTUS also upheld slavery as constitutional.... because it was the flavor of the month. Does it make it right?

How many have to agree on something immoral until it become moral?


lol.... man made morals....

 

I don't care what you subscribe to. If you want to pray to your invisible sky wizard, so be it. But your book does not make law- not in the US. Deal with it.

 

So what you are saying is that you don't know right from wrong without being told?

 

??? Make my peace? For what purpose? Will violence come if I don't? You rarely make any sense

 

Apparently, a subscription is necessary.

 

quite the contrary.....

but man-made laws, interpretations, and rights are subject to which man is in charge. I don't need the SCOTUS to agree with me that slavery is immoral. and on the same token, I don't need the SCOTUS to tell me what is and is not a right concerning marraige and who it should be between.


my morals don't change.... They are set, and will stay true.... but I don't determine my morals by what the sunday paper tells me either.

 

Agreed.

Now you lost me. On what moral foundation are you claiming that same sex marriage is objectively wrong?

 

The Bible was written by men, transcribed by man, translated by man, and unless you believe it to be 100% the literal word of God like our young earth creationist friends do, has been influenced by the opinions and inscribed with era-specific beliefs now shown to be inaccurate.

But it's hard to argue against someone who claims their own man-made opinions are factual because they think they are actual divine truths. One man's "divine truth" is another man's lie.

 

I made no mention of this BIBLE you speak of....

- - - Updated - - -

that same argument can be made about gay "rights"

 

I'm sorry, I thought you were Christian. Are you of some other religion then? More to the point where do your supposedly non-man-made morals derive from? Specifically, those against homosexuality...

And yes, views on what constitutes 'rights' are subjective, but I fail to see how the provisions granted to heterosexual couples in law are anything other than civil liberties largely denied to loving same-sex couples.

 

I am Christian.....

 

....

Then you follow the Bible, which is where you derive your morals from - including those on the subject at hand. So what in god's name were you talking about?

 

still a nice assumption there bud.... lol

 

So you're just going to continue being vague and not even bother to correct me? ...lol

 

why bother....

1. it won't matter
2. I don't care what you think


I'm not trying to convince the gay agenda of anything. They are the ones trying to say I should change.


so the onus is on you, not me, to justify your position

knock yourself out

 

Change what? Change you into a decent human being who leaves other people to their own business?

 

Nice cop out pal. Why bother you said... Well why bother coming here at all? If your beliefs are rooted in the idea that they are divine truth, the only way to fundamentally change your views on the subject would be to pick apart your religious ideals, hence why I opened up this line of discussion. But since you are seemingly so convinced that God doesn't want gay people to have equal rights, it all seems rather pointless. If you're serious about wanting to be convinced there are of course pro-gay Christians who may be able to help you with different Biblical interpretations, but as a non-Christian I'm very clearly out of my depth.

And the "gay agenda" isn't a single, tangible thing, silly. We might say it's just as much up to you to justify your anti-gay agenda without referencing the thing you perceive as god.

 

Nope. It's not gay rights, it's human rights. And ALL humans, straight or gay, have, and should have, the same rights as the other.

 

Ahh, but many gays are expecting special treatment (and not just equal rights) with these politically correct "hate speech" laws. Just read my earlier posts that are on this thread, and that'll prove it to you 100%.

So, it's nothing more than a person excersiing their free speech laws in Colorado in public, if somebody, or even a gay person, states that Christianity is a crazy man made religion that teaches messed up and crazy and evil stuff, but it's "hate speech" and "intolerance" if somebody even states that homosexuality is a sin/morally wrong.

Stop asking for special treatment, gays. I believe in equality. And many gay people are expecting special treatment from the world. That's not equality at all.

And, yes, hating people is very wrong. Bullying somebody/making personal insults at a person for being gay or for their religion is also very cruel, wrong, and evil.

However, don't go whining and crying out "hate speech" if somebody just offends your beliefs. Gay people can insult Christianity all that they want, but its "intolerant hate speech" if somebody even says that "homosexuality is wrong/sinful".

 

I'm not a fan of hate crime laws. Murder is murder. Though I would like to see the death penalty used much more frequently for homicides in general.

Well, Christianity IS a crazy man made religion that teaches messed up and crazy and evil stuff, so that's easy. And it is being intolerant to tell someone that their natural attractions are wrong.

Being able to get married is not "special" treatment, it's "standard" and is something to which every human is entitled.

Christianity deserves nothing but scorn. The way it teaches hate is despicable. Let go of your dogma and perhaps you'll learn something about your real soul and purpose.

 

I wasn't talking about "gay marriage being special treatment".

In one of TJ (the amazing athiest's) videos, he said that although he is pro gay marriage and although he feels

Even radical atheists that hate Christianity with a passion are admitting that gay people are getting far too much political correctness special treatment. There you go. Even Bible-hating atheists that mock and blaspheme Christianity (TJ) are realizing that gay people are taking this whole political correctness thing too far.

[video=youtube;zwoqzb5R6vw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwoqzb5R6vw[/video]

It's a very long video, but at one point he makes a comment about gay political correctness and gay marriage. 3:10-3:50

Sometimes people mock Christianity for reasons that have nothing to do with the Christian views on homosexuality. They can say scornful comments towards Christians and call them a bunch of crazy religious fanatics publicly in Colorado and nobody even makes that big of a deal about that.

Which I'm prefectly fine with. That's free speech. I'm happy that people express their opinions (even if they're hateful and angry opinions), because it gives Christians to share their (albeit opposite) beliefs with them. And, even if that wasn't the issue, people have the right to criticize/mock Christianity in public, for free speech legal reasons.

That should not be any different with people criticizing homosexuality.

However, I do believe that bullying people because of their religion/sexual orientation is very wrong. That should be illegal.

Christians have the right to their freedom of religion.

Anyways, not all Christians hate gay people. For example, the westboro baptist church hates gay people, and they make fun of gay people at their funerals, and that's very evil and wrong. That's hateful. That's not showing people kindness and respect and dignity. What they do is wrong.

But I've spoken with many Christians (including my mother), that believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, but she still believes that gay people should be treated respectfully. She had even told me that she believes that people bullying/making fun of gay people is wrong. How is that hatred at all?

 

You see, here is the problem. Belief that homosexuality is morally wrong is, ITSELF, morally wrong. It's misguided, based on information from people who genuinely believed that bacterial, viral, and other health problems were literally real-time punishment from gawd for prohibited behavior. That's why stupid stuff, like eating shellfish, is said to be prohibited. Because 2,500 years ago, someone got a hold of a bad batch of oysters, got sick as a result, and that illness was interpreted to mean that gawd didn't want us eating oysters. Same thing for all of the sexual prohibitions, for until pretty much the last 100 years, promiscuity literally could, and frequently did, kill many people. Diseases which today are no more serious than requiring a shot of antibiotics were death sentences, and assumed to be punishments from above.

Today we know better. We understand the spread of disease. We still have challenges with viruses, because of their duality of being alive but not quite alive, but that doesn't mean that HIV was punishment designed by gawd to take out gay men. If that were the case, where is the gay women disease? Or maybe gawd, like most red-blooded straight men, likes lesbian porn as much as the rest of us, huh?

Grow up. Stop listening to people who had no idea what reality was, or how it worked. There IS a larger reality. There is a source from which we came, and to which we will return. But there is no such thing as sin, only lessons. And don't worry if you screw up, that's part of the point. Just learn from your screw-ups.

I have come to the realization that homosexuality is most likely a soul incarnating as a man who has been living as a woman through many lifetimes, and vice versa. It's simply an adaptive process that takes a couple of lifetimes to get used to.

 

Please shoe me these hate speech laws.