Is a new America civil war inevitable and unstopable at this point?

So its about making people fear for their lives but it's not about murdering people? I really fail to follow your reasoning here. Are you just going to brandish your guns or what?

And it's the conservatives who seem to be ignoring the ballot box, because Obama WAS elected by a majority of the people and most of his initiatives have been passed by majorities of elected representatives.

 

Possibly too simple for you?

 

Simple works best for some people, saves them the trouble of thinking.

 

Ooooh! That one cut me to the quick.

 

Many people long for a simpler time. Does your fantasy world look something like this?

[video=youtube;Jqe4W08124M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqe4W08124M[/video]

 

I guess it depends on the circumstances. If a government like that of Nazi Germany took power then naturally some sort of civil war might be justified. This is because the force employed in a civil war would be in retaliation to the force of the state.

In this case the fault of the civil war would lie with Nazi government, as they had initiated the force and invited it on themselves. Similarly, I think that civil war is justified in the event that a Federal body is not allowed to leave the Federation should its government and citizens desire such a separation.

You're nowhere near that point yet, however.

 

There is close to a ZERO% Probability that a Civil War would again happen in the U.S.

People might have different ideologies and concepts here but we are all American's and the moment any outside force becomes a threat....we stand together....every single one of us....and the thing is....we are basically a mirror to what people are in every country of the world as the U.S. is incredibly diversified.

AboveAlpha

 

One other thing....the U.S. Constitution states that it is the DUTY...not right or allowance.....but DUTY of every American Citizen to remove any existing U.S. Government that has deviated from the Constitution or attempts to remove our citizens rights as stated in the Bill of Rights.

Because our entire Military is volunteer....and extremely tied and close to the U.S. General Population....it is virtually impossible for any U.S. Leader to use the Military in any way that would be akin to a Dictatorship or Fascist State.

People here LOVE our Military as they are our Sons and Daughters....Moms and Dads...and now days.....even Grandmas and Grandpas.

AboveAlpha

 

That's nothing out of the ordinary in 2013 - Australia is quite the diverse nation itself.

That's been happening for a long time. Your government (not your people) have turned South America into a set of American colonies. Politicians use your military in dictatorial ways all the time - just look at the Iran-Contra scandal - the executive was refused appropriations and so illegally sold arms to terrorists, all so they could conduct an unconstitutional war to maintain power in Nicaragua. Your government frequently invades other countries, assassinates their leadership,and installs US supported dictators. You might not be dictators yourselves, but that's only because your government has successfully cartelized such systems of government around the world.

What you say may have been true many years ago when you had no standing army, when you respected the sovereignty of other nations and didn't invade because they refused to conduct a 21 gun salute to the American flag - but it is not true today, from my perspective at least.

 

There have been mistakes made in the past but because of what I do I can tell you this....many Black Operations we have to do are because other countries sit on their asses and let the situation spiral out of control.

If you think the world would be better off without the U.S....TRY IT for a little while.

If we had not done the things we have then this planet would have already had a World War III.

AboveAlpha

 

If other countries want to elect leaders that the US doesn't like that's tough luck. They'll have to learn to live with it. To say that the US government has been a positive influence in Haiti, Nicaragua, Iraq, Iran, the Philippines, etc - is in my view pretty ridiculous.

Your leaders treated these nations like dirt. Roosevelt wanted a canal through Colombia, and when they refused, he went to the Panamanian rebels, offered them military support, and once they'd won their independence traded money for the land to build a canal. He never gave them the money. Is that helping?

Between 1911 and 1915 in Haiti, 6 changes in President were required as a result of assassinations. President Wilson eventually invaded and forced them to give the US control of their economic policy for a period of 10 years. Furthermore, when the Haitians were suffering under Duvalier the US didn't feel the need to intervene for their benefit. Why? Because the dictator supported US interests and opposed Communism. Then, in the 90s, when they actually got back on track and elected a leader through democratic elections, the US blockaded their ports and had him exiled. Is that helping?

There are dozens of other examples like this. Your government talks a lot of junk about democracy and humanitarianism, but in reality they're most often the ones holding up dictators and suppressing democratically elected leaders. As a libertarian I'm no fan of democracy, but surely the people of these nations should be able to decide their own systems of government without interference from the United States.

I'm not going to pretend that the US doesn't do a lot of good in the world, because it does. It's a valued trading partner and a world leader in science and medicine, as well as agriculture. Many of the advances our species has made in the past 300 years have come from the United States - but all of these benefits have come from the people of the United States, not their government. Since at least President McKinley your government has been antithetical to the very ideas of liberty, self-governance and individualism that you guys fought so hard for.

I have no problem with the American people. I appreciate their trade and innovation. I have a problem with your government's interference internationally. If you don't respect the sovereignty of others how can you expect them to respect yours?

The Great War was a war between European princes before the United States stepped in. Without American involvement the British would have been forced to accept the Germans' moderate peace proposal. It wasn't clear that you should have entered on Britain's side anyway. Furthermore, your entrance into the war was a complete fabrication. Germany printed articles in the New York Times warning Americans that travelling by British ships could be dangerous as they were in a state of war, and the ship they blew up that sparked American entry was carrying British weapons en route to the war. Wilson consequently was a significant influence in the treaty that destroyed the German people to such an extent that a once relatively liberal nation had elected Hitler within a few decades.

Wilson thought he could conduct a "war to end all wars", and touted his failed League of Nations as a means to enforce such a peace. On the contrary, the 20th century saw the US involved in innumerable wars and invasions throughout the world. American involvement indirectly led to the rise of Nazi Germany and the Second World War.

I'm not saying that you have to put down arms and hold hands in a peace circle, just that your government should use its military for strictly defensive purposes, because intervention abroad has been consistently shown to cause more harm than good.

 

I'm certainly no Conservative but the idea that Blacks and White Democrats would outgun and outsmart them in an actual war is so abusrd as to be beyond the realms of fantasy.

Conservatives make up the bulk of the US armed forces,even their Ethnic minorities tend to the right. Its hardly surprising that its the right who own Guns and the right who know how to use them

Don't take my word for it take the word of this radical black activist he seems to know about 'the enemy'

[video=youtube;7VqG_4ADFfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VqG_4ADFfQ[/video]

I think that American Consevatives conducting an irregular war against a the US government would probably be the most effective Guerrilla movement in world History. They have the training, armamants, Attitude and leadership to fight such a war added to white they would have numerous sympathisers within the Military and Law enforcement in all levels and services

 

No brandishing required. The reason people can so easily and quickly say that brutal dictatorships cannot happen here is because, largely, of the 2nd amendment, imo. If a tyrant were to try to take power here, and ignore our election process, he should fear for his life.

I have not seen any real movement to oust the president by conservatives. Were anyone to forcibly remove the president without due process, then the militia would have cause for action.

When I say 'ignoring the ballot box requires opening the ammo box', it means, for instance, if our current administration were to not relinquish power to whoever is duly elected to replace them. Or someone taking power without being duly elected. That is 'ignoring the ballot box'. It will likely never happen here, because of the 2nd amendment.

 

Does the right have a good reason for civil, war time tax rates, yet?

 

While I agree with your premise that there is zero chance of a civil war, I have never seen any such duty stated in the U.S. Constitution.

As far as I can tell the U.S. Constitution provides for elected representatives to be our government- not individual citizens. The closest I can think of is the option for a Constitutional convention to make amendments to the Constitution.

We as citizens and voters have an obligation to vote according to our interpretation of the U.S. Constitution, but everyone believes their interpretation is the correct interpretation, but that is the only way under the Constitution that we as American citizen's have to remove an existing Government.

 

It will likely never happen here because in the United States we as a whole have a deep respect for the rule of law and the U.S. Constitution. That is what prevents the largest organized contingent of armed citizens from taking power- the U.S. military.

 

Point well taken. Our current crop of legislators, on both sides of the aisle, have lost sight of the Constitution, in my opinion.

 

I think they would be quickly arrested and jailed.

The American military may consist of many conservatives, but most of all they have been instilled with a great loyalty to America and the U.S. Constitution. I don't think that they would have any sympathy with a bunch of pretend patriots going around blowing up bridges in the name of whatever cause they had pronounced.

Anyone with a lick of sense and history knows that civil wars almost always end badly. Even in the scenario that you seem excited about, the most likely end result would be lots of dead Americans, Americans fighting Americans, and eventually some charismatic military leader taking charge and leading a military junta to 'make America safe' again.

At that point we will have effectively torn up the U.S. Constitution and become a banana republic.

 

Why should we give the right a free pass, like last time; they either plan to win any war they can come up with through wartime tax rates or it is just another scam in their master/servant relationship in our republic.

It is just another reason why our front in class warfare should include merely goading the wealthiest to Insist their public servants simply purchase the finest solutions money can buy, with an official Mint at their disposal.

 

I'm not certain how accurate that britannica article is, but I wouldn't put it passed a liberal to behave in such a manner. Wilson was a tyrant, a segregationist and a eugenicist. He won his election, by promising not to take us into war and we all know how that turned out.

 

It's funny that you keep bringing up wanna-be dictatorial liberals from the United States. Wilson and FDR were both oppressive in their own way, even to their own people (despite the love they receive from unknowing liberals). Segregation, eugenics, control of the markets, demanding farmers to grow certain crops - or to cease growing altogether, one took us to war unprovoked, both had internment camps for specific types of people. That's just scratching the surface.

 

Liberals have already done that.

 

LOL....of course.....of course......LOL

 

I'd say that a Civil War was almost inevitable, except that the right-wing extremists are so stupid and disorganised that even they must realise they'd be wiped out in a few days.

 

It wouldn't happen like that. I still haven't seen anyone on this thread address the question: What happens if some states vote for succession? Not hard to imagine a scenario like that. After the 2012 election up to 25% of the electorate in some states said they would vote for succession. Can you imagine how some of these people would react to actual crisis?