Is America a Christian Nation? Should America Be a Christian Nation?

no it doesn't, the ten commandments are against religious freedom

 

is this the kinds of Christian justice the right wants?

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/loving.html

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
-Judge Leon M. Bazile (January 6, 1959)

 

Nor should you question a culture's traditions and sensibilities, merely because they differ from your own. Obeying laws, however, has nothing really to do with a "religiously centered national religion." Do you dispute that?

In the U.S., we already do expect visitors, for the most part, to obey our laws. So I am straining to see the relevance, of your point.

As far as "mores," these are as much social, as they are religious and, again, we have our own mores in America (varying somewhat, in different parts of the country) already. We do not need to have a Christian revival, for the purpose of establishing mores, so that foreigners can respect them, while in our nation. That seems to be what you are arguing.

If, as you say, we have this (present tense), then why do we need to push further, in the direction of "Christian nationalism?"

I hope my reliance on logic, is not contrary or offensive, to your mores or religious sensibilities.

 

When you were in D.C., did you see the Washington Monument-- did you realize that design, called an obelisk, is sourced from Ancient Egypt? There are actually many symbolic allusions to antiquity, outside of Biblical texts-- to Ancient Greece & Rome, as well as to Egypt. On top of the Capitol dome, for instance, is a statue that is a kind of American hybridized Goddess of Battle, like Athena or Minerva.

<Snip #1>
Inaugurated in 1863, Freedom features a woman wearing a feathered helmet and ancient Greek-style dress. In her left hand she holds a wreath and shield. Her right hand rests on a sword. A mash-up between an Indian princess and a classical war goddess, Freedom is a muddle of symbolism that reveals the complexities of American history...

Crawford’s original concept focused on a figure representing Liberty. In an early design, Crawford presented a statue of a woman wearing a Phrygian cap, the type of soft, brimless hat worn in ancient Rome by freed slaves to indicate their liberated status. Upon seeing Crawford’s model, then Secretary of War, Jefferson Davis, objected to the image of the cap. According to art historian Vivian Fryd, Davis felt it was an inappropriate symbol for Americans who had been born free and who would never be enslaved. Davis, a slave-owner who resigned from the Senate in 1861 to become the leader of the Confederacy suggested that the figure wear a helmet, instead. According to Fryd, Davis referred to his idea of the sculpture as “armed Liberty.”

“Armed Liberty,” or Freedom, wears a Roman-style helmet crowned with feathers like an Indian headdress. Since the 16th century, British and American artists used images of Native American women, identified by their feathered headdresses, as allegories for the United States. By the mid-19th century, however, U.S.-Native American relations had been strained by conflict and the policy of Manifest Destiny. Native Americans were removed from their ancestral lands to provide land for American settlers.

Crawford’s completed sculpture—a combination Indian princess/classical goddess/female warrior, reveals the 19th century American conflict between the fantasy of liberation and the reality of subjugation. Perhaps the greatest irony is that the Capitol’s Freedom was cast in bronze—by slaves.
<End Snip>

https://dcist.com/story/13/01/18/art-at-the-inauguration-the-mixed-m/


<Snip #2, Google>

Athena – and Minerva, her Roman equivalent – is often shown wearing a helmet to demonstrate her prowess in war, and her symbols include the owl and the olive tree.May 7, 2021
https://www.britishmuseum.org › ...
Gods and goddesses of the Greek and Roman pantheon | British Museum
<End>


Of course, there are lots of Masonic symbols, all over Washington, if you know where to look, and what to look for. Many of our founders, including George Washington, belonged to the Masonic order, which is reputedly tied back to the Knights Templars, who were Christians, but far from "orthodox."

In summation, the founders of our nation were not the old style bible thumper Puritans, but rather, open-minded men, of the Age of Enlightenment, willing to reimagine things, think outside of the box, and outside of the Bible, as well.

 

Oh, yeah? Which one??

 

What would said revival do? Pls be specific...

 

I admit you got my ire when you called those that oppose your premise "ignorant citizens". That is how you erase the opposition. Then you go on to use Biblical precepts to beat them over the head like any good attorney would do. That is why I point to your "many words". You want to talk about "Christ like"......Jesus took the words of Moses, which had been expounded into volumes by the religious leaders of the day. And summed them up into two commandments. That is the true example. Some are wise to your "many words."

 

Words symbolize ideas, concepts. We use them to communicate. Your hatred, then, of communicating ideas, would be inexplicable, to anyone who took your words, to be truthful.

Instead of discussing the actual concepts I advance, you prefer to try to slur me...I'm sure Jesus would be real proud of you for that, too.

 

Yes, the "Age of Enlightenment" resulted in the humanistic approach where you behead the opposition as in the French Revolution. We see that approach taking place here in America today with "cancel culture" and labeling others as ignorant (as you have done). The Puritan example was far more benevolent than that. We allow the opposition to exist among us. Sometimes it seems to be our undoing but it is in the hope others can see the benefit of "individual liberty" as exemplified by Christ.

 

Jesus was only riled to anger at the Pharisees that used "many words" to confuse what they considered the "ignorant populace" as you have done. Ideas are easily and simply communicated when done in an honest fashion.

I find it almost amusing if it wasn't so sad when I turn your ignorant accusation back on you and suddenly it becomes a "slur".

 

LOL-- your misknowledge of history, never fails to amuse. I guess you are not aware that it is the Puritans, who were behind the Salem Witch Trials? But don't get me wrong-- I'd never suggest that the torturing of people, and then slowly crushing them to death, is nearly as bad as the culture war, currently being waged against you brave, stoic warriors, of the Right.



P.S.-- Don't worry about your lack of depth of historical knowledge, or familiarity with the Constitution; remember, we're both public school kids, so I get it.

 

Human nature prompts it's ugly head among all peoples. The Salem Witch trials are examples. Although those are blown way out of proportion, a few good people were martyred there but in no ways near the proportions of the French Revolution, or even the "enlightened" Joseph Stalin. Your idea that mankind is "enlightened" and has all the answers betrays your thoughts!

 

Save America.

 

Your posts don't offend me at all. I find them to be rather juvenile.

 

Oh, so you are blaming modern progressives, or "Wokeness," now, for the killing in the French Revolution? I just want to follow your mind's entertaining, acrobatic tricks.

Sure, that makes sense, because there were never any wars or massive slaughters, before the Enlightenment, such as, for instance, the Wars of Religion, which ravaged Europe for over a century-- what's that, Yabber? Not familiar with those. Well, that's a lot to cover, but here's a primer:

<Google Snip #1>
What were the wars of religion after the Reformation?

The Wars of the Reformation began with the Knights' Revolt of 1522–1523, followed by the German Peasants' Revolt in 1524–1525, the Eighty Years' War in 1566–1648,^^ the
French Wars of Religion in 1562-1598,*
and the Thirty Years' War in 1618–1648**
Nov 3, 2022
https://study.com › learn › lesson
Religious Wars in Europe | History & Facts - Video & Lesson Transcript - Study.com
<End Snip #1>


<Google Snip #2>
How many people died in the European wars of religion?

The *French Wars of Religion refers to the period of civil war between French Catholics and Protestants (called Huguenots) from 1562 to 1598. Between two and four million people died from violence, famine or disease directly caused by the conflict, and it severely damaged the power of the French monarchy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
French Wars of Religion - Wikipedia
<End Snip #2>



<Google Snip #3>
How many people died in the Reformation wars?
It's tempting for libertarians to celebrate this day as a great victory for freedom of speech and freedom of religion, but the Reformation's main fruit was over a century of horrifying warfare. **The Thirty Years' War, with a death toll around eight million, is the best known.Oct 31, 2017
https://www.econlib.org › 2017/10
Hard Questions About the Protestant Reformation - Econlib
<End Snip #3>




https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eighty_Years_War

<Snip#4>
^^Eighty Years' War

“”I shall continue to hold by the Catholic faith; but I will never give any colour to the tyrannical claim of kings to dictate to the consciences of their people, and to prescribe the form of religion that they choose to impose.
—William of Orange, 1565.

The Eighty Years War, also called the Dutch War of Independence, covers the long revolt of the Low Countries against the rule of the Spanish Empire between 1567 and 1648. The war had a number of causes, including resentment against Spain's high tax rates, but the most significant of them was Spain's attempt to enforce Roman Catholicism on the largely non-Catholic population of the Low Countries. The Protestant Reformation had gained a significant number of followers in the region, and Spain's religious intolerance became a serious problem.

During the initial phase of the war, the revolt was largely unsuccessful. Spain had regained control over most of the rebelling provinces. This period is known as the "Spanish Fury" due to the high number of horrific massacres, mass lootings, and total destruction of multiple cities between 1572 and 1579. Under the leadership of William of Orange, the northern provinces of the Low Countries were able to oust the Spanish in 1581 and create the Republic of the Netherlands. Dutch colonialism began at this point, as the Netherlands was able to snipe a number of Portuguese and Spanish colonies, particularly in the the Asia-Pacific region. In 1609, the war seemingly ended when Spain finally consented to the independence of the Dutch Republic. However, religious tensions in the Holy Roman Empire sparked the even more devastating Thirty Years War, which saw Spain and the Netherlands go to war once again.

The Thirty and Eighty Years' Wars ended at the same time with the Peace of Westphalia. The Netherlands was once again recognized as an independent realm, but their southern provinces (now Belgium and Luxembourg) with their higher Catholic population were kept under Spain. The eight decades of religious war came at a massive human cost, with an estimated 600,000 to 700,000 victims, of which 350,000 to 400,000 were civilians killed by disease and what would later be considered war crimes.
<End Snip #4>

Just a couple of notes about the 80 Years War: it did contain the Twelve Year Truce; and part of it overlapped with the Thirty Years' War.

So how many millions, does that all total up to? But nowhere near as bad as the Enlightenment, which brought us such evil things, as modern science. Damn you, Renaissance! Better to have stayed in the Dark Ages, right Yabber? Though there were some pretty spectacular massacres back then, as well.

And no, my schools didn't even mention the European Wars of Religion, either. Interesting omission, don't you think?

Gotta go, now; but maybe next time, we can cover the Inquisition, in Spain and elsewhere.

 

And yet, you are unable to rebut my arguments, defend your statements, or respond with anything more substantial than this post, here.
I guess that says it all.

Oh, but if you want to think that your calling my arguments-- that you were so sure you couldn't answer, that you didn't even try-- "juvenile," means that you "won," then you go right ahead and believe that; you obviously need the win, more than I do.

 

America is decidedly stronger by being plural wrt religion and other measures.

 

Stop being a weisenheimer. I meant, which should have been clear with even average reading skills, what changes to the US would your little "revival" bring?

 

You seem to have tied the "Age of Enlightenment" in with the new "wokeness" you experience. I could go back and look it up but it is fresh in my mind. Human Nature has never gotten better and you folks of the collective mind are all the same. I do believe if the collective was large enough, you might join an effort that would use the guillotine for Christians.

Here it is:" For your enlightenment: keeping of religion out of government, is, in one of our "nation's documents," albeit one which is obscure, in the knowledge of many, almost hidden, you might think"

For you to enlighten me, you show that you feel yourself "enlightened". So did the folks and the elite of the French Revolution". So do all the folks who rule with the example "Rules for Thee but not for me."

 

America has descended into near total corruption and vulgarity.

"if My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14​

 

Morality.

 

I do believe there are a good number of religions where we would be better off if the Americans who believed those various religions, followed that guidance.

Wrapping that up as a call to reject all the religions except for yours is just more justification for evil.

 

Why is this even a question? Unless someone is planning to erase the First Amendment (and then renumber all the rest) it can't be a 'Christian Nation' because no laws can be passed by Congress regarding the establishment of religion or prohibiting its practice. For that matter nowhere are the terms Christ or Christian explicitly referenced anywhere in the Constitution. We may as well be debating should the US become a monarchy?

 

Absolutely true.

 

The nation can be Christian even if the government isn't. The people and the government are not the same thing.