Is homosexuality "normal"?

Whelp it's that faith-based belief because you can't prove it, but even if there's not a design-er that doesn't automatically mean that nihilism is correct. It would still be possible for purpose and meaning (aka design) to exist even sans a design-er

And in real life terms, we don't consider being born blind, or being born a dwarf a "normal" medical condition - just because we don't consider these people inferior doesn't mean the condition itself is "normal".

(As in as far as we know there's no "gene" for homosexuality; the most likely biological cause I've read basically amounts to over-exposure to testosterone or estrogen in the womb).​

 

Attack on bathrooms, say what???
Attack on religions, say what???

 

The question was scientifically is homosexuality abnormal. The clear answer there is that it is abnormal.

Humans are different from other animals because humans can overcome basic evolution and survival of the fittest type mechanisms due to humans intellect. That allows humans to modify their own environment which includes social and religious constructs which can accommodate some abnormality. But also unlike other animals, there is now a social cost - as long as the accommodation of the abnormality does not have too high a social cost it will be tolerated. In other words, if the abnormality does not too negatively impact the general quality of life (which includes religious values, ethics, cultural mores, and other issues unique to humans), the abnormality will be tolerated. With the issue of LGBT, the impact on quality of life has crossed that negative threshold.

 

True and a good point. Human society is more complicated than other species and abnormal individuals can still contribute to the advance of the society. But while childless adults can be beneficial they are still abnormal.

 

No, your stubborn, narrow minded and intransigent views fail to reflect reality.

Regards.

 

Follow the news. Even before Obergefell, the gay activists hinted that they would be going after religious tax exempt status, and as soon as gays won gay marriage the activists immediately began the attack on religious tax exempt status. Christian churches either change the Bible so homosexuality is not a sin, or they lose their tax exempt status ( and other abilities as well such as charity work, counseling, adoption services, day care, schooling).

And surely you have heard of the moves to make elementary and high school bathrooms gender neutral, the eradication of gender related pronouns and identifiers, one university even allows students to make up their own pronouns to avoid "offending" the little babies, and the idea that gender is a social construct and each person should be allowed to self-select their gender/orientation.

 

You are making things up. And while that may suit you intellectually and somehow harmonize with your beliefs... I'm not buying what you say.

I'm done discussing this with you here.

Later.

 

Commonsense speaking, if homosexuality was normal, our species would be in dire danger.

 

You prove my point. That's too bad, as I am an advocate of the live and let live doctrine. Obviously you are not. In fact if you go back to posts up until early last year you will find I supported gay equality in this forum. Your attitude contributed to the loss of an ally on the "other" side. Your attitude has made life a lot harder for everyone.

 

No, haven't heard about tax exempt stuff. But I don't inundate myself in gay activities or brainwash myself on RW BS tv and radio.

I seen a story or 2 on gender neutral bathrooms. But it isn't amounting to anything to worry about.
And gender neutral bathrooms isn't a big deal, it's done elsewhere in the world.

Back in the 70's there was a small college I knew of that had mixed couple dorms on 1 floor. Both sexes used the same bathroom/showers.
So it is not anything new.

 

Not if you put normal in a context.
Many species have gay participants. Those species are not going extinct.
The topic isn't about the majority, just if it's normal for some. And it is.

 

The question is if it is normal. Normal is "most"....The norm. Homosexuality is properly defined as an anomaly. Not normal.

 

I'll make you a deal. I won't support that which I believe to be bad policy, unjust treatment , or unconstitutional positions because I am gay or am allied with gay rights, regardless of what some gay activists or lobbyists support, if you won't decide to turn your back on what you believe are good policies, just treatment and constitutional law, because you want to change your alliance. Why don't we just take our stance, and not worry about another's, who we are not accountable for.

I do not want religious tax exempt status changed based on behavior that happens in a church, from a pulpit or based on a sacrament performed by clergy while functioning as a cleric, pastor, or priest and fulfilling that function. That is OFF LIMITS, and I will oppose any efforts to use tax exempt status to punish church conduct. I will however support looking to alter tax exempt status when illegal discriminatory treatment extends to every hospital, adoption agency, pharmacy, investment firm, law firm, which is acting primarily as an income generator for a church which has majority ownership in the property or stocks.

If the entity is not functioning as a church, it should not claim the rights of one, to discriminate in hiring, public housing or public accommodation. Churches that break the laws governing civil rights protection, are not entitled to tax exempt status while they do it. When it goes off the church property and into a hospital room, an adoption counseling session, or pharmacy counter, it is breaking the law.

 

If you are not in the crosshairs then you don't pay as close attention to it.

Many places have gender neutral bathrooms - small businesses, medical clinics, day care centers, etc. But those are single person facilities, and often allow a person to lock the door.

And as you mention there are colleges with mixed gender dorms with mixed gender bathrooms. But that is totally voluntary.

Elementary and high school is not voluntary and is a different environment. Most parents would not like the idea of their young daughter being in a bathroom with a teenage boy who thinks - or claims - he is a girl.

And the gender neutral bathrooms are not done in isolation but expressly under the umbrella of LGBT equality. The bathrooms exist already, they are designated as a "boys" bathroom and a "girls" bathroom, but the designations are changed to allow any person in any bathroom in order to accommodate the LGBT mentality.

 

Being left handed is not the most common
Yet it is a normal variant. Not an anomaly

The word normal is not scientifically descriptive
It has many meanings
And more importantly
It is a word that is rife with unstated overtones
In this case, being homosexual is a less common variant
And therefore arguably not normal
And by implication then abnormal
But saying someone is abnormal connotes a meaning entirely different than saying they are a less common variant. So using the words not normal in this context is simply a sly and duplicitous form of rhetorical gamesmanship

 

That was my attitude until I changed in early 2014 over the harassment and firing of Brendan Eich (he still cannot get a job anywhere). Since then there have been a long list of people harassed, some fired, some driven into hiding, some bankrupted, by the intolerance of the gay movement.

And now I do not trust the gay activists. First they literally claimed they just wanted "a place a the table", they didn't want to replace anyone or push anyone away from the table, they wanted simple equality so they could just live their lives like everyone else. They claimed live-and-let-live. They lied - big time.

You can uphold your end of the deal, but you are not the gay - now LGBT - activists. The gay activists lied for 20 years, they will lie again. They are deceitful but smart, they played a brilliant strategy and are adept at PR (but maybe the old Peter Principle has come to play). I fully expect them to step back and pretend they are satisfied, hoping that after a little time goes by and people have dropped their guard, or when the political situation is to their advantage, they will swoop in and attack again.

Your deal on a larger scale requires trust. There is no trust. From the religious perspective, the LGBT's made great strides, they are wily, and the religious community is against the wall with no room to back up. The religious side requires some space to get their backs off the wall - which means the LGBT activists have to step back (stop their attacks, be tolerant) and I don't see that happening. Even if the LGBT side does step back, there has to be trust that it is a real step and not a feint.

At the individual level, your deal sounds good. At the societal level, I think its too late and there is going to be a heavy political and economic and social backlash against the LGBTs.

 

You should not trust ANY activist organisations. They will always go too far. Its in the job description. They will push the envelope as far as they possibly can for the narrow interest they are promoting, always and forever. You should not trust the NRA. I should not trust the National Organization for Women. You should not trust the Christian Coalition. I should not trust the AFL-CIO. You should not trust the National Taxpayers Union. I should not trust the PRIDE foundation.

I may not be the gay activist lobby, but they will definitely pay a lot more attention to what I say, than just about anyone else, and the NRA will definitely start paying attention when gun owners tell them they are going too far out there.

Now on your point on efforts by activists to get someone fired for expressing political or social views off the job, and away from their job title. I am pretty solidly opposed to such efforts. I was adamantly opposed to pressuring Brendan Eich out because there was no proven connection to discrimination or a hostile work environment. If we want people to express controversial positions and advocate for unpopular political or social ideas ( and we do!), it is not enough to protect them from arrest and prosecution. We have to have an environment where their job is not at risk with every tweet, facebook post, or bumpersticker, or protest march they join.

My job as a supporter of gay rights, is not to put that emphasis, over values even broader in scope, and more fundamental to our democracy or more imminent to our national security. Your job is not to allow gay rights advocates undermine your own values in support of equal rights. They did not break a trust because it wasn't a deceit. They sincerely see it as a continuation of the same struggle . They get it wrong when they ONLY see the struggle and nothing else. They need to hear the word 'No' once in awhile, just like every other advocacy group.

 

I don't believe that people expressing their honest opinions in a civil manner were suspended for that opinion. Most likely they were breaking rules. not hard to believe.

The war is won. There is no value in kicking the corpse.

Truth tends to endure. Now that the war is won we need to return to mocking the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. That is the way the culture grows.

It has always been equality.

Well they did live up to the promise. other than a handful of activists they live and let live.

lol, which gays? It isn't that the crazy theories these lunatics have that makes them tinfoil hat wearing nut jobs, it's that they believe all LGBT, or even many are doing this. The truth is it's maybe twelve or thirteen people tops. I know about the couple that turned in the bakery, that's two people. Mercy what a massive conspiracy.

Some people want to say it's all LGBT over secret desire to control others. It is kind of like blaming all of christianity for the WBC protests of funerals. It is ad hominim, it's dishonest, and it is irrationally motivated. Stupidity will never catch on. sorry.

Ahead? we just became equal in most states.

 

The LGBT didn't do anything to religious people. They aren't even part of this. It was politically expedient to defend bad policy with religion. that's a bad defense, it never works. It also ends with a bunch of butt hurt among Politically "religious" when they failed to defend their policies with religion.

It's a move of desperation.

 

Normal? No. Homosexuality is an abnormality. However, lets not pretend like that means anything. Not being normal does not mean that gays are inferior.

 

No capn strawman, my sentence was clear. And the only people throwing gays of rooftops these days are muslims. The lefties besties.

 

Homosexuality is common; it has been a part of the human species since 'heterosexuality'. Despite that, the Earth's human population has flourished... essentially exploded, almost to the point of being a problem.

So really... what are you talking about?

 

You may personally believe that... but research and expert conclusions generally disagree with your opinion.

But as you say, "Not being normal does not mean that gays are inferior." And it would behoove many bigots out here... to realize and accept that homosexual people are not 'lesser' and or somehow 'malfunctioning'. Really, it's the discrimination and berating of gays that I will defend against... sometimes that ranges from calling human beings "abnormal" to physically attacking them for being 'different'.

There is NO REASON in this world, why gay people (and the decent people who would defend them) should put up with ANY attempt to denigrate homosexual people. That should no longer be tolerated. After all, we would not up with heterosexual people being put down or discriminated against for their 'human' sexuality. I understand that SOME gay/straight people go too far in what they may say/do... but we should go after those individuals, not vilify an entire group of human beings.

 

I sure wouldn't argue that it isn't common - with celebs coming out of the closet almost daily I sometimes feel I'm soon gonna be the only hetero on the planet - but it isn't nor ever has been predominant. What you don't seem to understand is that it isn't 'what you are', it's 'what you do'.

 

it is not a "normal lifestyle choice"

Nothing stops people from from living the gay lifestyle and engaging in gay sex if they so choose.

But that said, it must be put into perspective that it's simply a choice with respect to how they have sex. It's not deserving of special laws and regulations